The Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment exists to prevent tropers from making agenda-based edits or bringing up irrelevant controversial issues, but it's not always obvious if something breaks the rule or not. This thread serves the purposes of:
- Getting consensus on cutting overly controversial edits.
- Rewriting biased examples to be more neutral.
- Pre-emptively clarifying if a possible example actually violates the rule, or if it's okay to add.
- Making sure that the rule isn't just being used as an excuse to write a Zero-Context Example ("Some people think that X is Y, and that's all we have to say about it.")
See also the thread "Trump and ROCEJ
" for the specific topic of tropers sneaking their political views (not just views regarding Donald Trump, despite the title) onto the wiki.
See Pages Attracting Edits That Promote Bigotry for pages that attract ROCEJ violations that are bigoted in nature.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 16th 2023 at 5:25:14 AM
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
So, delete all except the first sub-bullet?
Industrious Incisors
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Thanks. There's also a section called "General Websites" at the top. Also this under Web Video:
General
- Pewdiepie, Markiplier, and any Let's Play of their kind: Screaming out the top of your lungs and behaving like a madman will secure you a loyal fanbase and millions of views.
Cut both per Examples Are Not General? (The last one for complaining too?)
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jan 30th 2021 at 3:43:05 PM
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Angry babby
That's not even really an aesop, warped or not. It's pure meta junk. So cut it for that too.
Also isn't just complainy but super outdated, like the complaint about the Japanese tropes when they've been merged and made Fan Speak for a while now. (Plus the irony of listing certain reviewers as Reviews Are the Gospel that are now Snark Bait on the site as well.)
Edited by mightymewtron on Jan 30th 2021 at 3:46:50 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I'll admit I found the TLP one Actually Pretty Funny because this is a recurring issue we get there, but like...this entire thing needs to go.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Cleaned a bit more of WarpThatAesop.Web Original... including some entries that link to a website that will get you banned here if you link it.
Rock'n'roll never dies!
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Alright I cut the general examples.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
re: [1]
Web serial novels go in the Literature namespace, but there doesn't seem to be agreement on where they go in an example section's Media Categories.
Friends forevermore
If necessary, we can resurrect this thread to discuss web serials.
(A bit of discussion has already taken place there, seven months ago–just without a definitive conclusion.)
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
Unsurprisingly, flareup on the discussion page of Victoria.
Even less surprisingly, Idumean Patriot is defending it and seems confused that people consider it fascist. I didn't read all of it but I love his argument about "we don't know why the author was addressing a conference of holocaust deniers, maybe he was trying to convert them!"
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Angry babby
Wow, I've never seen a discussion page comprised entirely of walls of text.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Goku Black
Why are we entertaining this work not being racist, fascist garbage when it's written by a dude whose racist, fascist garbage. I really don't understand that.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Idumean Patriot is that dude who keeps defending it in the reviews section as well. I'm genuinely surprised they've not been stopped yet.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Very Spooky
It's also worth mentioning that Idumean Patriot has seemingly made more edits to Victoria than anyone else, and also appears to have given it its' abnormally-high number of wicks (note that the number of wicks used to be over 500).
Edited by jandn2014 on Feb 2nd 2021 at 1:46:17 PM
back lol
Wicks that are noted to have been shoehorned, by the way. A fact that he pretty much completely glosses over in his response to me bringing it up in the discussion page.
Angry babby
Did that short-term cleanup for Victoria ever manifest?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Yeah, it's here.
... I started it and then it turned out that it takes a while just to finish going through like, one letter of tropes, and then I forgot about it and played Caesar 3 for a bit instead. I love Caesar 3.
I'll head back and work through a few more tropes now. Am still in favour of cutting it but also respect that it is certainly a tropable work of fiction and it should be possible to cover neutrally.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
I found Russia Today a while back, but after reading over it again, I decided to bring it up here. As many may know, RT is a news network that has been accused of being Russian state-run propaganda. Which brings me to the question: why do we have a page for them? All of the examples are complaining (even if justified,) and I question whether or not they are tropable. What should we do? Cut the page? Clean out the complaining? Add it to the Infamous and Controversial Works page?
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
How sweet it is
Re: Victoria
Idumean Patriot is now suspended. He shouldn't interfere with the cleanup effort.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
I'm not entirely sure why a news network would even qualify for a creator page in the first place.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
I believe MSNBC, CNN, and Fox have pages as well. What should we do about them?
EDIT: I will add RT to Infamous and Controversial Works for now, until we decide what to do with it.
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Feb 3rd 2021 at 1:47:20 PM
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
The Draftsman of Doom
Found the following on the Real Life section for More Popular Spin-Off:
- A lot of terrorist/militia groups that work as franchises can fall into this, as the various groups share their names and ideology but usually not much else.
- The Turkestan Islamic Party in Syria is larger and far better armed than the Turkestan Islamic Party in China, despite the latter being the parent organization and most of the former's recruits being Uighur foreign fighters spilling into Syria directly from China (specifically, Xinjiang). This is mostly due to the difference of environment: China's extremely strict laws and very effective law enforcement in Xinjiang makes getting any weapons caches in a nightmare, while everyone and their mother has a cache of AKMs and RPGs in Syria. Oh, and technicals.
- Al-Qaeda in Iraq quickly became the most dangerous branch of Al-Qaeda by accumulating massive numbers of recruits and arms in the aftermath of the Ba'athist Iraqi Army's collapse. The main Al-Qaeda branch in Afghanistan (which never had more than a few thousand fighters) was pretty much wiped out by the Americans by 2003 and the secondary branch in Yemen (which cooperated relatively closely with the Afghanistan branch) suffered a lot of reversals in the 2000s, leaving AQI little competition. In 2013, upon growing even more powerful, Al-Qaeda in Iraq realized this trope was in action and just broke off its nominal allegiance to Al-Qaeda, rebranding itself as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. At its peak, ISIL had over a hundred thousand fighters and governed an unrecognized proto-state of over ten million citizens and two hundred thousand square kilometers of land. ISIL then got its own spin-offs when various other Islamist groups in Libya, Afghanistan, Yemen, Egypt, Nigeria, and the Philippines all pledged allegiance to the Islamic State's self-declared caliph, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
- Ironically, after the destruction of the main ISIL branch in Iraq and Syria at the hands of their many enemies, the strongest ISIL branch is probably the one in Afghanistan.
- Speaking of Al-Qaeda, its strongest branch by far is now Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, the Syrian affiliate.
- Hamas started off as a tiny Gaza-based offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood.note Due to Israel ignoring it to focus offensive efforts on the PLO, as well as support for it by both the Muslim Brotherhood and Iran, Hamas slowly grew in power until it was able to take over Gaza. Currently it basically rules the two million citizens of the Gaza Strip and has tens of thousands of fighters, which it has used to stamp out internal opposition, support insurgencies in Egypt and Syria, and fight multiple conflicts with Israel. Meanwhile, the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood has been outlawed by the Egyptian government for decades (briefly legalized in 2011 only to be re-illegalized in 2014) and holds no formal power.
These examples fall afoul of ROCEJ for obvious reasons, and I suggest that they be Screwed by the Network.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Calling a controversial paramilitary group a "More Popular Spin-Off" definitely violates ROCEJ in my humble opinion.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 3rd 2021 at 7:12:47 AM
Rawr.
Not so sure the reasons are as obvious as you think. Merely discussing terrorism doesn't make a ROCEJ problem by itself.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Yeah, the first one fits with the spirit of our foremost Running Gag, but the rest feel like they were made in backlash, perhaps in some cases to a singular occurence.
SoundCloud