Unclear Description: Eternal September

While trying to find an image for this page in Image Pickin, we realized this page doesn't really have a clear definition. It's supposed to be a page about the internet before it was popular, but that's not really a trope. I'll start with a wick check, just to see what the page is used as:

Wick Check: 31/31: 100%

• It's Popular, Now It Sucks!: Mentioned in the example for the internet.
• Me Too!: Potholed while talking about Usenet.
• New Media Tropes: Indexing.
• Newbie Boom: Used 3 times:
  • A see-also in the description.
  • A see-also in the description for a "Web" example.
  • Mentioned in an example for CB Radio.
• The '90s: Mentioned twice while discussing Usenet.
• The Red Stapler: Discussed while talking about CB Radios. Newbie Boom would work just as well here.
• Characters.Code MENT: Misuse, The Internet Is for Porn would match the context given better.
• Characters.Genius The Transgression: 3 uses - all of which fit better as Newbie Boom.
  • Used as a sinkhole for N00b 2
  • Mentioned in a description for a group.
  • A ZCE just below the previous two usages.
• Characters.The Gamers: Mentioned in an example for Unwitting Instigator of Doom, without enough context for me to tell what the usage is (X person unintentionally caused Eternal September to happen)
• EndOfAnAge.Real Life: Mentioned in an example for Usenet again.
• FanFic.Marissa Picard: Used to mention the work originated from before the internet became popular.
• FanFic.Undocumented Features: Also used to mention the work originated from before the internet became popular.
• Franchise.Halo: Incorrectly used. Entry should be Newbie Boom.
• Fridge.Twitch Plays Pokemon Red: Used in a chained sinkhole with Newbie Boom. Newbie Boom would be sufficient to make the point.
• Laconic.Eternal September: It's the laconic for the page. Here's the content for reference:
  • The Internet used to be exclusive to civilized veterans. Not anymore.
    • Note that Newbie Boom is mentioned here as well.
• NetworkDecay.Influences On Other Media: Mentioned via a parabomb in the example for Encyclopedia Dramatica.
• Podcast.Brilliant Gameologists: 2 usages:
  • Mentioned in the description via pothole. Pothole has nothing to do with any definition of Eternal September, so is misuse.
  • A zero context example
• QuoteSource.Other: N/A - just where the page quote came from.
• RecycledInSpace.Web Original: Mentioned in an example for 4chan's /x/ board. Newbie Boom would work as well.
• RuinedFOREVER.Web Original: Mentioned in an example with Newbie Boom. Just one would suffice.
• TabletopGame.Genius The Transgression: Two instances that are basically a re-telling of the content of the Character page's content.
• Trivia.Nation States: Attempts to use it as a trope. Note that Eternal September is not trivia, so it is still misuse.
• UsefulNotes.The Nineties: Mentioned in a bit about how AOL caused a Newbie Boom.
• VideoGame.Roblox: Misuse. Using Eternal September as a way to invoke They Changed It, Now It Sucks!. Also mentions Newbie Boom in the example.
• Website.Facebook: Used in the description in a chained sinkhole with It's Popular, Now It Sucks! .
• Website.Myspace: Used as a trope, where the popularity of the website goes up and down. Not supported by Eternal September's current description.
• Website.Usenet: 3 usages:
  • Two mentions that it is the trope namer.
  • Probably the only valid usage as a trope, seeing as Usenet named the concept.
• Wiki.Lost Media Wiki: Commented out example. Used as a complain-y version of Newbie Boom.
• YMMV.Imageboards: Mentions Eternal September as a invasion from /pol/ to /int/. Not a valid usage.
• YMMV.The Elder Scrolls V Skyrim: I'll just include the text, as there's no way I could summarize it.
  • A book called "N'Gasta! Kvata! Kvakis!" often confuses players by being complete gibberish. If you know Esperanto, it's a simple cipher with certain letter sequences swapped for others. Once deciphered, the text either breaks the fourth wall, or it's an ancient Sload necromage magazine article that highlights some of the issues between print and Internet-based magazine versions, like image copyrights. In fact the topics and mannerisms are written in a way very familiar for those who lived during the internet era of Bulletin Boards. Say whatever criticism you may have about the Sloads, but for them, the Eternal September never came.
• YMMV.True Capitalist: Used where Newbie Boom would be valid.

The most common usage of Eternal September is to either emphasize Newbie Boom or as a replacement for it. We can't cut it as a duplicate of Newbie Boom due to the 15,488 inbounds, but we could just make Eternal September redirect to it.

Edited by bitemytail on Jul 13th 2019 at 3:19:18 AM

Opened.

The thing is, Eternal September really isn't a trope. It's a historical period. It might make sense to define the term, but it probably shouldn't have examples. A work that predates 1993 isn't "averting" it, any more than a work published before the 2000's "averts" The Millennium Age of Animation.

Edited by notriddle on Jul 13th 2019 at 9:06:55 AM

Maybe this would be better suited to Useful Notes. Inbounds would be caught by the auto-disambig system.

As for the examples in the first post that have more applicable tropes (such as Newbie Boom), the wicks to this could be changed to wicks for those tropes instead.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 13th 2019 at 12:28:07 PM

I could see moving to useful notes, but I'm not sure the concept itself is necessarily on-mission for TV Tropes.

To making it a useful note.

Courtesty link to the Image Pickin thread. Most, if not all, of the suggestions seem to have been given with the impression that it's about the '90s-era Internet in general, instead of changes that came about in 1993 specifically.

Edit: For clarification, this post is not meant as an argument against or in favor of anything. I'm just commenting on the confusion caused by the description.

Another edit: Here's Wikipedia's page on the subject, if that helps clear anything up.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 14th 2019 at 3:52:54 AM

Make it a UN and change wicks to Newbie Boom where it doesn't refer to the 1993 event but overrun forums in general.

Useful Notes, move wicks to Newbie Boom.

Edited by Brainulator9 on Jul 14th 2019 at 7:43:19 AM

Now that I think about it, I think the opening wording of the description, "Back in the old days", is too vague; that would explain why so many IP suggestions were related to things that are more recent than September 1993. Changing it to "Back in the '80s and early '90s" would probably help.

Edit: Also, this part might be causing problems:

""Eternal September" can be used to refer to drastic changes in any forum or community where some event causes the newcomers to suddenly outnumber the existing population."

That part's definitely redundant with Newbie Boom (at least with this page in the Main/ namespace), and it's Not a Trope regardless (Newbie Boom is Trivia and thus already Not a Trope). I wouldn't miss this paragraph even if we move the page to Useful Notes, because it has nothing to do with the actual Eternal September event.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 14th 2019 at 11:08:28 AM

Useful Notes, move wicks to Newbie Boom.

for moving to Useful Notes and applicable wicks to Newbie Boom.

Another vote for moving it to Useful Notes (making that ~7 votes for and none against).

Edited by Tabs on Jul 15th 2019 at 11:27:43 AM

bitemytail wasn't sure about whether the page is on-mission (but didn't completely rule out a Useful Notes move), but you're correct about the votes in favor of a Useful Notes move.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 15th 2019 at 1:42:46 PM

I'll give a for a move to Useful Notes. I'm still not 100% this is on-mission, but we've already got the Eternal September page so we may as well put its content somewhere.

Edited by bitemytail on Jul 16th 2019 at 8:08:24 AM

Courtesy link to the related to page, since I turned the Main/ page into a redirect (after moving this to UsefulNotes.Eternal September), posted a notice on the discussion page, and indexed this under Useful Notes. I also cleared up some of the wording I previously mentioned.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 18th 2019 at 2:37:08 PM

Dewicking is complete, and I cutlisted the Main/ redirect. Does anything else need to be done to the description?

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 18th 2019 at 3:05:36 AM

Not in my mind.

It's been three days with no more changes to the description or suggestions for changes. Maybe we're done here, and any further changes can be made later.