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One more MLP Candidate for now.
Who is Twilight Sparkle?
She's the main protagonist of the show. Voiced by vocal legend Tara Strong (best known for Bubbles from PPG, Timmy Turner from Fairly Oddparents, Princess Clara from Drawn Together, who Twilight sounds like, and Raven from Teen Titans), she starts off as an Adorkable bookworm, she is sent from her upscale hometown of Canterlot to the more rural Ponyville. During this, she meets five new friends in addition to her assistant. Rainbow Dash, Rarity, Fluttershy, Pinkie Pie, and Applejack. During her studies of friendship she also fights against many villains alongside her friends. Eventually, she becomes the princess of friendship crowned by her mentor Celestia, and decides to spread friendship across the land. And in the most recent season, she opens a school of friendship with her friends as the teachers.
What is her predicament?
Starting off, we have an interesting case. Twilight starts out similar to a mix of Rainbow and Fluttershy, a recluse, but unwilling to make friends because she sees friendship as unnecessary to her studies, thus having her act as a bit of a grump for a while, not unlike Rainbow. Until Princess Celestia, one of the ruling deities of the land tells her to go make some friends in the more rural village of Ponyville. It is then she takes her assistant Spike to Ponyville.
Of course, if we really want to tackle what Twilight's gone through, let's start even earlier than that. Just like Rainbow and Fluttershy, she has self esteem issues from being horribly bullied in Magic Kindergarten and because of this, dreads being sent back there again, even having an entire episode where she goes batshit insane trying to think of a friendship problem to solve, to the point Celestia herself has to intervene. But as she was about to find out her special talent as the element of magic, she is placed before a rather daunting group of educators, to see if she's worthy of being placed into Celestia's special school. All she had to do was hatch a dragon egg with magic.
This fails, until she hears the Sonic Rainboom that Rainbow Dash made as a filly, causing Twilight to get the magic needed to enter the school. It is then she became Celestia's star pupil. And that dragon hatchling becomes her assistant Spike.
She also has a huge case of Super OCD which is NOT played for laughs and sometimes thinks ponies are laughing at her like Fluttershy. To the point everything needs to be extremely neat and tidy and if anything is the least bit off, she freaks.
Twilight also begs her friends often not to be offended by, or hate her, and she feels helpless when she can't solve a dilemma giving her something of an Inferiority Superiority Complex.
And of course we get to the wedding episode where everyone is turned against her thanks to the evil Queen Chrysalis disguised as apparently Bridezilla Cadance. She feels horrible about what she'd done, knowing that she probably wouldn't be able to redeem herself in their eyes... and even worse, it turns out that she was right to be suspicious, since "Cadance" reveals herself to be an evil impostor and imprisons Twilight in the Canterlot Caves.
Then after that her beloved Golden Oaks Library is burned to the ground by Tirek, causing her to cross the Despair Event Horizon. She does get a shiny new castle, but it's clear the loss of her original Ponyville home hit her hard.
She's also humiliated by her rival Trixie (when she gains the all powerful MacGuffin the Alicorn Amulet), made to cross the Despair Event Horizon when Discord turns her friends into jerks before he is redeemed, and was repeatedly injured when Pinkie's Pinkie sense kicked in during Feeling Pinkie Keen.
And that's the abridged version of what she goes through.
Given she's the focus point character and meant to be the Audience Surrogate at times, along with plenty of bad things happening to her and many issues including Super OCD which makes her borderline Schizophrenic I would say an easy pass for an Iron Woobie.
Can she defend herself?
Given that she was taught plenty of magic, she can definitely defend herself, hence why I want her in Iron Woobie. Sometimes she lets her problems get the best of her, but for the most part she tries to overcome them.
I was pondering about proposing Strider Hiryu's Manga & NES Counterparts and whether they are different enough to warrant separate entries.
Speaking of writeups... Who will post some weekend batch or do some potholes regarding it before I will post someone?
You wanted 'em, here are the write ups.
They look alright from what I see, so maybe someone who is a little more verbose could help me with this. But here are all the current write-ups before getting posted.
Edited by Klavice on Oct 22nd 2018 at 12:38:02 PM
Are you going to cast a vote?
Yes to all of the candidates that I missed.
Yes to Twilight.
I guess I'll do a few final notes on Happy Sugar Life.
Who is he?
Asahi is the elder brother of Shio Kobe. He was conceived from Yuuna's future husband's rape. Initially, Asahi tried to keep his mother up while they were both horrifically abused by the patriarch of the Kobe family. Eventually, Shio is born (most likely from another account of rape). With Shio's birth, Asahi tells his mother to escape the house with his sister so that his hellhound of a father wouldn't follow them.
What is his predicament?
Well, he spent five years with his abusive father for starters. His father would horrifically abuse him and mock his mother, claiming that she crumbled like paper every time he struck her. By far the worst thing that his father did to him was ripping his fingernails off out of morbid curiosity at seeing how much pain Asahi could endure before collapsing from shock. When Asahi is forced to get his old man some alcohol, he returns home to discover that his father was dead on the floor, seemingly from alcohol poisoning. Overjoyed, Asahi goes to search for his mother and sister. He found his mother...but there was no sign of his sister anywhere. With this, Asahi becomes determined to find Shio so that they could all be a family again.
The second episode? It sees Asahi getting beaten up by two thugs. Fortunately for him, Mitsuboshi saves him and he gets taken to the backroom to recover. To make matters worse? Asahi began to recite the vows that he and his mother would make. Satou overhears this (she and Shio would ritualistically perform these vows) and contemplates bludgeoning him to death with a crowbar only to relent, realizing that she couldn't hide the evidence.
To describe Asahi's situation further...he sleeps underneath a park bench at night rather than sleeping on top because he assumed it would be more dangerous. Asahi meets Satou's only friend Shouko Hida who would routinely give him food to eat. This would gradually lead to Asahi growing attached to Shouko for her kindness, and they both trade phone numbers. Unfortunately, when Shouko snaps a pic of Satou and Shio and sends it to Asahi via text message, Satou murders her. Meanwhile, Asahi lures Mitsuboshi under the pretense of finding Shio and forces him to help him find his sister under the threat of pulling his fingernails out.
In the finale, Asahi finally finds Shio...only to then hear her proclaim that she was staying with Satou, having disowned her biological family. Enraged, Asahi attempts to strike Satou with a bat...and his rage only worsens when he discovers Shouko's lifeless body being burned. After Satou's death, does Asahi finally get to properly reunite with Shio? Pfft, you wish. Shio firmly states that she would live for herself, keeping her "happy sugar life" with Satou alive in her heart. Dude....
Asahi was conceived from rape, making him feel in some fashions, his existence was a mistake as his mother was clearly not wanting to become a mother at the age of 16. He spent five years being firmly under his father's thumb, being horrifically abused and just when he felt that he would have some semblance of happiness, he learns that his sister was no longer with his mother. After going through absolute hell, just when it seems that everything was working in his favor and his efforts were paying off...he gets snubbed by his own sister who had long forgotten about him in favor of a sociopath. The fact that even when he got his sister back Satou ultimately won Shio's love speaks volumes about how unfair all of his suffering was.
Can he defend himself?
He is physically weak and fragile. In his quest to find his sister, he actively refuses to use force to get what he wants. Even when he starts to become more aggressive by carrying a bat he somehow found, at worse, he only uses it to get Mitsuboshi to work for him. But as for where the Iron Woobie kicks in...Asahi is firmly determined to achieve his goal even when he is beaten, injured, mistreated, and abused for his efforts. Asahi is clearly someone who does not give up. He believes that his happiness lies with finding his sister and making his family (minus Dad) whole again. No matter the cost.
Is he a Jerkass Woobie
No, not really. He does act mean towards Mitsuboshi by forcing him into compliance under the threat of ripping his fingernails off, and he is apathetic towards Mitsuboshi's situation of being trapped in a building where the upper level was about to be burned down. But given how Mitsuboshi had withheld information about Shio from him for a long period of time, it is somewhat justifiable.
Keep as an Iron Woobie. He is one of the strongest cases of this trope in the series.
Shio Kobe is the aforementioned younger sister of Asahi and Satou's "lover" (well, as I had stated, her relationship with Satou is written in such a way where it is viewed as maternalistic). She was found by Satou one evening on the streets.
What is her predicament?
She was implied to have also been conceived from rape much like her older brother. After she and her mother escaped their abuse, Shio noticed how her mom seemed to have moments where she is happy, or some where she's sad...or even enraged. As such, Shio spends a majority of her time trying to make her mother feel better. After one incident led to her mother slapping her, Shio is abandoned. But she allows her mother to leave because she thought that represented that she loved her. While she was generally more happy living with Satou, Shio had moments where she got massive headaches, most likely as a result of severe PTSD.
Eventually, Shio starts to wise up and demands for Satou to stop keeping her in the dark about her activities. Satou relents and Shio vows to be her "partner in crime." When she is finally reunited with Asahi...she chooses Satou over him, and holds up a glass shard to keep him from harming Satou. After Satou's death, Shio keeps her memory alive in her heart. And she also develops traits not too dissimilar from Satou...
Much like Asahi, there is the implication that she was conceived from rape. While her life is clearly not as tragic as Asahi's or her mother's, Shio tried to make her mother happy anyway she saw fit and her being abandoned by her mother caused her to develop resentment towards her as well as mental issues resembling PTSD. Because her mother kept her inside the house at all times, Shio has moments of physically breaking down because she was so unfamiliar with her surroundings. Her calling Satou out for always keeping things from her is portrayed as being akin to when her mother left her on the streets thus leading for Shio to think that Satou was likely going to abandon her next, making Shio ask Satou an Armor-Piercing Question on whether she truly loved her or if she only valued her as a toy.
While not as tragic as most other examples in the series, I feel that she does meet it.
Can she defend herself?
Shio is a small case of an IW IMO. She can't physically go against anyone who is twice her height, but she is determined to preserve her happy sugar life with Satou even if it involves becoming a willing partner in crime. She tries to scare Asahi off by threatening him with a glass shard...even when her hands were seeping blood. As such, her determination of living the good life with Satou does make her an IW but more of a lesser case when compared to her brother.
Is she a Jerkass?
In short, I wouldn't call her that. Yes, she disowns her biological family for Satou's sake and is dismissive towards her brother and completely ditches him to keep her "happy sugar life" with Satou in her heart...keep in mind that Shio hardly remembered him. He spent five years being abused by their father, and her life with her mother was subpar to say the least. Even when Shio understood the depths of why her mother abandoned her, she would still choose Satou because she felt happy for the first time in her life. With all of those aspects working against Asahi's favor, it isn't that much of a stretch to say that Shio simply didn't see a reason to go back with him.
I would personally list her as an IW alongside her brother myself. But thoughts?
Edited by AustinDR on Oct 23rd 2018 at 6:14:41 AM
I'll take a yes on the above girl and her brother, for 400, Alex.
Edited by Klavice on Oct 22nd 2018 at 7:58:33 AM
Yes to the above dou.
Now as for the last one from the series...Taiyo(u) Mitsuboshi.
Taiyo was formerly an employee at a restaurant known as the Princess Imperial.
Taiyo was considered pretty popular by the all-female staff, and when Satou first joins the restaurant, Taiyo asks her out on a date. That proves to be his undoing...as his manager overhears him asking Satou out. Since the manager desired that all of her employees love only her what she does is simply messed up. She calls him into her office...and traps him in her cabinet after which, she would repeatedly rape him for a week as a way of making him love her.
To say that this deeply traumatized Mitsuboshi is an understatement. He becomes secluded in his room for a few days, and he develops a disturbing obsession with Shio, believing that her "purity" could cleanse his soul of those horrible memories. Eventually, this leads to him becoming Satou's accomplice solely so he could have access to Shio herself. After trying to convince Asahi that Shio had left the district, he is coerced into helping Asahi find Satou's home address under the threat of having his fingernails removed. Mitsuboshi finds what he believed to be the address and deliberately goes behind Asahi's back so he could have Shio for himself. Unfortunately for him, the apartment room he enters actually belonged to Satou's aunt...who goes after Anything That Moves. So...yeah. To add insult to injury, Mitsuboshi is nearly killed when the upper level of the apartment building is burned, but survives with no physical injuries...well, except that he is presumably perpetually scarred from his experience.
Rape is something that is a rare occurrence in the anime and manga series with it being played seriously. As such, Mitsuboshi was raped for a week by his former boss which deeply traumatized him. This is also one of the few times in a work where the Double Standard: Abuse, Female on Male is played seriously with the manager's repeated assaults on Mitsuboshi being presented as disgusting in-universe. Where it gets more complicated with suggesting Mitsuboshi is the fact that he...has a disturbing obsession with Shio, who is a child. However, with this, to be frank, Mitsuboshi is only like this because of his traumatic experience at the hands of his former manager. Mitsuboshi saw Shio as a way of recovering from his trauma because of her perceived innocence. At the end of the day, Mitsuboshi is presented as a rape victim first and foremost.
Is he a Jerkass?
In one episode, his whole motivation of trying to warn Shouko about Satou is that he was afraid that she would "fall in love" with Shio and take her herself. He becomes a willing partner with Satou solely for selfish reasons, and he deliberately goes against Asahi's orders so he could have Shio himself. I'd say that he is a jerk, but at the least without going too far.
While having a backstory as rape victim, he does have moments where he is self-motivated. So, I'd wager that he'd be a Jerkass. As for Satou herself, I feel that she is too far and beyond what should reasonably be understood as a JW since she Jumps Off The Slippery Slope towards the latter half of the series, and I can't say she is an Iron Woobie either. She is determined to maintain her happy sugar life with Shio, but I can't really say she falls under either trope.
Edited by AustinDR on Oct 22nd 2018 at 9:32:36 AM
Sure on the Happy Sugar Life candidates
Yes to Taiyo.
Also, in the spirit of Halloween, would it be fine if I discuss Halloween (2018) on October 31st?
Go ahead. I'd be surprised if Michael Myers counts as a JW, but I've seen the later Friday the 13th movies humanizing Jason Vorhees.
If Its ok to ask a general question about the Jerkass Woobie trope here, can a character who later in the series completely crosses the Moral Event Horizon, count as a Jerkass Woobie in the chapters/episodes before their unsympathetic villainy.
Say something like:
Or would the remorseless crimes done in the second half of the series prevent the earlier incarnation of the character from qualifying as a Jerkass Woobie?
Sounds like a potential Woobie Destroyer of Worlds, rather than a Jerkass Woobie since they are a serial killer.
As for new proposals, they will be tomorrow hopefully as with the write-ups for the MLP trio.
Having read the visual novel, I can say that's an accurate evaluation. Keep.
Edited by AustinDR on Oct 25th 2018 at 7:59:18 AM
@Austin DR Btw... Lucy on my to do list. Thoughts on that?
Before I start with some E Ps... I need to ask some question with Klavice regarding the cleanup:
And an advice for Klavice:
If you mean Lucy/Kaede...not a Jerkass Woobie. While tragic, her actions are too atrocious to merit sympathy. Unless you mean Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds?
Yeah, Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds for her can work. I'm also targetting possibly Mayu and Kouta as well for potential E Ps.
Also, yes. Mass purge the examples not brought to the forum. Anyone is free to suggest them if they want to. This should help us move along greatly.
Possibly gonna ask other tropers like Lighty, Miraculous or G-Editor to come here. But I'll doubt if they hold interest with cleaning Woobie subpages. And yeah, with the new standard is set, I think we have the use of Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds now.
Though speaking of Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds…
What is the work?
mother! is a 2017 psychological horror film by Darren Aronofsky. mother! stars Jennifer Lawrence as the eponymous mother who is the wife and muse of Him, a poet suffering from writer's block. After a housefire, mother decides to take it upon herself to revitalize the house. But then came man....
Who is she?
While it is blatantly obvious — besides Aronofsky and Jennifer Lawrence not-so-subtly making comments about it — mother is actually a representation of Mother Earth...or Mother Nature. While she takes on many different motifs as the film progresses, let's just keep it simplistic. As stated, she was the wife and muse of a popular poet who seems to have some tensions with her. Him's basically the kind of person who loves attention and craved for more...even though mother continually showered Him with appreciation and love.
Everything. When man arrives to the house, he continues his smoking habits, ignoring mother's asking him to stop. Then to make matters worse, man's wife — woman — arrives the next day, and she makes fun of mother for the lack of an "intimacy" between her and Him. At this rate, mother was gradually becoming disturbed by her husband's insistence of bringing all of these random people into their home but tries to endure it. After man and woman's sons arrive (referred to as older brother and younger brother), the younger brother is murdered by the older brother in front of mother's eyes. Him goes out of the house to try to get the younger brother help, but there was not much they could do for them. Man and woman's extended family then arrive to the house to attend the younger brother's funeral, climaxing in a pipe bursting and water rushes out. After kicking the people out of the house, mother has an argument with Him over the events only to then passionately kiss him.
The next day, mother discovers that she was pregnant. Overjoyed, Him becomes inspired to write again. Whatever his writing was, it was a huge success, leading to hundreds of his rabid fans invading the house. mother tries to have them stop, but as always, her wishes are ignored. Her house literally becomes a warzone with people getting rounded up and shot execution style; slaves were being traded about in the house; multiple instances of debauchery plagued the rooms, etc. mother began to go into labor at that point, and Him and a nurse take mother to Him's study where she conceives her baby. However...Him was wishing to show off their newborn child to his fans to which mother vehemently refuses since He ignored her requests one too many times.
She continued to sharply stare at her husband until she fell asleep. Waking up, she realizes, to her horror, that Him had taken the baby from her and He hands the baby to his followers. The baby cries out as it was being crowd surfed from person to person until its neck gets broken. mother runs into the crowd to look for her baby...only to see that her baby had been butchered and its flesh being consumed by Him's father in a warped take on the Lord's Supper. Finally having enough, mother grabs a shard of glass and starts to slice away at the followers...only to be immediately overtaken by the hordes and beaten harshly. Him arrives to save her, but while He understood that what His followers did was horrid, he suggests that they forgave them so that their son's death wouldn't be in vain. Finally having enough, mother rushes into the basement and pours oil unto the floors before lighting it. This results in the house being completely destroyed.
The ending also reveals that mother was only the latest in a long series of incarnations. With her permission, Him removes her heart, breaks it, and removes a crystallized object from it. He then places it on a stand, and the cycle began anew with a new mother...
As the physical embodiment of the Earth itself, the film obviously tries to invoke some sympathy for mother. On an unrelated note, it is a fact that Darren Aronofsky is an environmentalist, so feeling sympathy for mother was the logical goal. The film makes a point with how much mother gives and gives for her husband and his fans but is met with ingratitude or hostility. Even when she appears to finally have a shred of happiness in the form of her baby, Him's recklessness causes that one moment of true happiness to shatter, turning her into an Omnicidal Maniac. Given how the film is cyclical, all of the versions of mother had most likely been broken to the point of insanity before setting the house ablaze to destroy everything.
No. She does have a little bit of an upper hand by slashing at some of Him's followers with a glass shard, but she quickly gets taken down.
Is she a jerk?
Not really. She tried to her very best to be sociable with Him's fans, but she was continually met with disrespect or cruelty. If anything, the whole ending where she basically causes a global apocalypse is kind of totally justified.
Given how she was driven to insanity because of Him's allowing all of these people to wreck their house and then having to see her own baby get killed and eaten — and then being told to forgive those murderers — her sanity had already taken a nose dive and only got worse. So, Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds.
Edited by AustinDR on Oct 25th 2018 at 1:53:07 AM
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How well does it match the trope?