The New Tens Cleanup Thread

That's worse. It probably violates ROCEJ more than anything currently on the page, and, regardless of whether it's appropriate to make these kind of statements on this site (it isn't), He Who Fights Monsters is NRLEP.

On related note, I think a lot of the discusison on this site presumes that violent antifacism is a new phenomenon, or at least is seeing a sudden resurgence after being dormant since World War 2. This is not the case, as a quick look at the Britain of the seventies and eighties or the Italy of the ninties and oughties will tell you. Thus, I would argue it is categorically wrong to call it a phenomenon of the New Tens at all.

Edited by TheMountainKing on Aug 7th 2018 at 2:27:47 PM

Aye, that sounds like a case where Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment applies. I am also wary of how vague and generic the example is, as if there were no actual instances of the trope.

Is your concern really that it's too pro-antifa?

Other way around. The vagueness of the example sounds like it's talking about something that the troper who added it has no proof for. Even if they did the example needs to go for ROCEJ grounds, though.

Became Their Own Antithesis needs a bit of a revision, and a trim on the 2016 elections.

Is it okay to cut any entry on the page that tropes RL rather than "instances in media"? I'm not sure if we've got that go-ahead yet.

I think the issue has more to do with examples having issues with either No Real Life Examples, Please! or the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgement (in other words some 3/4's of the page), as well as entries that don't really fit such as the recently-inducted Not So Different.

Also, there's an issue about the Bio Punk entry. Even in the case it's not contentious, it's very poorly-written (it was commented out for that reason before someone included it again).

P.S.: Some of the other "decade pages" might need some cleaning up as well, don't they?

Edited by RAraya on Aug 8th 2018 at 1:59:54 PM

Perhaps so. I think transplant some of them into the Useful Notes page. The main page for The New '10s, and every othere decade would be a Setting trope, while the rest, esp. those that are NRLEP and ROCEJ, would be for Useful Notes.

NRLEP and ROCEJ violations wouldn't be allowed on a Useful Notes Page either.

2nd re-write of Capitalism Is Bad:

• Capitalism Is Bad: A renewed interest in socialism in the anglosphere was accompanied by a surge in media that openly denounced capitalism, such as Jacobin and Current Affairs magazines and podcasts such as Chapo Trap House that blended humor with left-wing politics.

Maybe mention some fictional works too. Sorry to Bother You and certain episodes of Black Mirror come to mind.

Better?

• Capitalism Is Bad: The creation of publications that openly denounced capitalism, such as Jacobin and Current Affairs magazines and podcasts such as Chapo Trap House that blended humor with left-wing politics, accompanied the resurgence of socialism in the anglosphere. At the same time, science-fiction and dystopian media, such as Black Mirror and Sorry to Bother You increasingly critiqued what was known as "Late Capitalism" and its impact on society.

Looks good.

I've done some research and I'd like to apologize and clarify a few things about the point I wanted to raise concerning ANTIFA and the He Who Fights Monsters trope. First, I didn't mean all protesters against fascism, I meant the conglomerate ANTIFA, as defined here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States) which I mistook for a group.

Second, I did some research on the points I wanted to raise and have since learned that I was misinformed; they did not do most of the things I said they did.

Third, I didn't know that the He Who Fights Monsters trope was a No Real Life Examples Please trope.

At any rate, I'll strive to be more careful in the future.

On that note, I suggest that we add a point for Political Correctness Gone Mad on the New 10's page (last I checked, that didn't fall under no real-life examples, please!) The text I put forward is as follows;

• Political Correctness Gone Mad: Use and abuse of this has become widespread and a hot-button issue in this decade across many countries and nations. Common criticisms include it suppressing necessary discussion of serious issues because they involve historically suppressed or politically useful groups, attacking people or groups who disagree with or question this to the point they suffer similar oppressive treatment to said groups, unnecessarily rebooting existing works to push a message rather than producing new ones for that message and even claims of some people or groups rewriting history.
  • There has been a push for positive portrayals of women in media, some of which have been successful. However, some creators/writers were so fixated on it, they ended up going too far the other way and their works can appear to be deriding men (Such as Mad Max: Fury Road where all the bad characters are men and every woman is good or not-villainous, or how in the 2016 Ghostbusters film men are almost exclusively portrayed as being stupid, wrong, and/or evil).
  • Regarding the above, some critics and commentators state that certain films are only being made due to socio-political agendas, such as Ghostbusters 2016, Oceans Eight and the upcoming all-female reboot of The Lord of the Flies (because there was little demand for a reboot of the latter two franchises, let alone one without any of the existing characters). Another complaint is that these works, to varying degrees, sacrifice story quality to push their messages. There has also been the issue of some filmmakers deflecting legitimate criticisms of these works by accusing their detractors or sexism (such as various responses by director Paul Feig to critics and criticisms of his 2016 Ghostbusters reboot, which has spread over to other criticisms from fans including bringing back actors from the original movie but not the original characters - the tragic death of Harold Ramis notwithstanding ) even when those critics have praised other female-led films, such as the second, third and fourth Hunger Games films and the smash hit 2017 Wonder Woman film.
  • In the attempt to fight discrimination against LGBTQ people, laws have been passed. Some of them, in countries such as Canada and California , detractors pointed out aspects of the law could potentially lead to "imprisonment for simply using the wrong pronoun" ^note  one problem is when interacting with gender fluid people, it could be construed as rude to ask their gender, which could violate those laws and itself trigger legal consequences .
  • Some media outlets have done this in regards to Islamic terrorism. They go as far as to avoid mentioning Islam when discussing an Islamic terrorist attack such as the media not once mentioning Islam following the 2017 New York City truck attack. There's also some unwillingness in institutions and governments of some countries, such as the UK and Sweden, to address extremism issues in regards to religion (at least where is Islam is concerned). It's gotten to the point that some detractors even go as far as to describe it as Orwellian.

I don't intend for all this to be added, though if it works and we can add all of it, I'm fine with that. The links are to provide evidence to back these claims, and I look forward to feedback.

Edited by ArtemisStyle on Aug 14th 2018 at 8:27:08 AM

That's also NRLEP. It's not always in the main text of the description, check the indices at the bottom.

I see, and apologize for my mistake. I read through it and found what you meant. At the very least I think we could discuss this trope relating to it's impact on fictional media works, such as it's role in the 2016 Ghostbusters film, Mad Max Fury Road, the Oceans Eight film and the remake of The Lord of the Flies.

The trope page there is list of examples divided into three categories, one of those categories is "Political correctness impacting stories:" I think that a story being made with, or whose making was influenced by, a politically correct agenda in mind counts. So could we add that in relation to its impact on fictional stories? Also, I think some of the points I added could fall under the Moral Myopia trope, which is on The New 10's page, how does that sound?

Edited by ArtemisStyle on Aug 14th 2018 at 8:37:44 AM

It is listed in No Real Life Examples, Please!. Go to that page, and control f for the name of the trope.

Even the proposed alternative doesn't work. The claim is not that Ghostbusters (2016) contains and example, the claim is that it is an example or that the discourse around it contains examples, which is a real life example.

I see your point. On that note, what about the idea that some of the points I added could fall under the Moral Myopia trope, which is on The New 10's page, how does that sound?

That's also NRLEP, and the current entry needs to be deleted.

Okay. There's other things that need to be changed and a lot that needs to be deleted (particularly anything bashing Trump - or praising him, but there's none of that on the page - as that should be a neutral discussion page, not home to agenda editing).

Under the Moral Guardians point on that page, someone has put a link to Political Correctness Gone Mad for the left and The Fundamentalist for the right; both are NRLEP and fundamentalism is found among the left and the right. I think those links need to be changed.

Cut all of them.

Edited by geekgecko on Aug 15th 2018 at 10:54:48 AM

Can I go ahead and make the changes proposed in previous posts? To wit: Removing entries for Blackface, Christmas Cake, Hide Your Gays, Insane Equals Violent, and removing the real-life part of Bury Your Gays.

Adding entires I've previously written here for Capitalism Is Bad, Darker and Edgier, Manchild, Police Brutality, Sliding Scale of Idealism vs. Cynicism.

I think you can go ahead with the proposed removals. Conversely, the re-writes part is more complicated, and someone might want to add their POV before it's all set.