The criteria for Unintentionally Unsympathetic says:
"When a character's supposed insecurities or embarrassing quirks are supposed to inspire sympathy, but fail to impress the audience because they're mishandled or plain written badly. It can be made even worse if they have to learn a lesson. Without being at least somewhat invested in the characters, the audience might have passed the point of caring when the character finally comes around."
This is the basic criteria of the trope. There is more after but I am not sure what was present from the start and what was edited in afterwords to expand the definition. This trope is becoming more popular, with the page starting to be split-off into sub pages and such. And like all popular YMMV tropes this is causing an influx of bad examples that are probably just one-sided complaining, shoehorning, and bashing which is not in the spirit of this wiki. You can see this is causing issues just by looking at the pages discussion thread. I felt that the trope needed a dedicated cleanup thread. This way edits can be done without causing edit wars and getting people banned.
Some guidelines if a character or event is Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
1. It has to be unintentional on the authors part. It is in the title. All examples that were intentional on the author's part are disqualified by definition.
2. The example should state exactly why the author or narrative intended the subject to have been sympathetic and why it failed to resonate with the audience. If the example can not clearly state these two points, it is a bad example and needs to at minimum be rewritten.
3. Neutral tone: No insults. I know it is fun to complain about stuff but complaining is not in the spirit of the wiki. So long as one side isn't promoting hate speech examples should be written without taking a side. Examples that are heavily favoring one side or insulting the other side are probably not valid examples.
4. There should be a wide accepted disagreement between the audience and the author to be a valid example. By that I mean that there should be large consensus in the audience disagreeing with the author over why the character is unsympathetic instead of sympathetic. If the audience is too divided and one section thinks agrees with the author and the other doesn't, the example could be a pet peeve of a single person, which isn’t noteworthy.
Lastly, always consider Square Peg, Round Trope and be mindful if the example may fit better under a different trope such as Base-Breaking Character, Broken Base, and The Scrappy. Please visit other cleanup threads if you have questions about tropes that do not involve Unintentionally Unsympathetic.
Feel free to help if you spot some bad examples or can point out more rules for the trope. Or argue with me over the definitions, this is a cleanup thread after all.
MOD NOTICE: As of October 26, 2022, this thread now covers Unintentionally Sympathetic as well.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 26th 2022 at 8:15:48 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
As long as it's acknowledged how her friends were Unintentionally Unsympathetic in the way they taught her the lesson, go ahead.
Is this thread doubling as Unintentionally Sympathetic cleanup now?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Apr 2nd 2019 at 6:53:06 AM
"* Lena and Simone from Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island so were supposed to feel bad for them due to their friends getting attacked by the pirates and being eaten by crocodiles so they used the cat god's power to get revenge on the pirates only for the girls to be cursed too and have to drain the lives of people in order to stay alive. But that sympathy sinks away straight into the muddy bogs of the island as Simone and Lena show no remorse or regret for draining the innocent people they have lured onto the island throughout the years and instead seem to completely enjoy draining innocent people. So why should we feel sorry for these two bitches again?"
I don't think they were intended to be sympathetic in the first place.
Does anyone else agree?
Lizzid people!
They were forced to watch their neighbors get slaughtered.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
IIRC, the movie played their backstories up as tragic, but it didn't attempt to justify the crimes they committed over the century. The Scooby Gang don't really express any sympathy towards their current plight, or have any remorse when they perish at the end.
So delete?
Yep. Go Ahead.
Guys can we make a rule that only Characters can be Unintentionally Unsympathetic? Cause I am seeing examples now of people applying to the trope to things that don't have brains or agency. Like labeling the Dark Side US. The Dark Side isn't US. It's a Trope. We are labeling whole tropes US now? I mean, there are probably other tropes that fits the examples better but this shows how far down the rabbet hole of decay this trope has gone when editors can't even keep it limited to characters.
Edited by DocJamore on Apr 15th 2019 at 4:16:40 AM
Planeswalker
I disagree. A group or way of thinking within a verse (like a religion) can be Unintentionally Sympathetic or Unsympathetic depending on how the author portrays it.
The problematic examples I'm talking about would be blaming the religion itself in this case. Not the group or people who happen believe in it.
To be US, you should have a brain. You should have agency. Editors could find other Tropes for their examples instead. But they don't because this trope is too broad and popular as it is.
Edited by DocJamore on Apr 15th 2019 at 4:45:39 AM
Planeswalker
But the trope has nothing to do with agency, or making intelligent decisions. The trope is just about the audience finding something more or less sympathetic than the author writing it intended.
Alright. I yield.
I made this thread to tackle complaining. Without a agreed-upon definition of US, that is all this tread is able to do. So back to catching complaints. That's enough of a job already!
Google "big ears"
Found this on Fate/stay night. While i'm not super knowledgeable on the series, this entry feels like it uses weasel words too much
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Sakura's critics complain that she is this. Her backstory is sympathetic, but the same could be said of almost the entire cast, and she has little character beyond serving as a Damsel in Distress. Yet because she is the heroine of her route, her suffering, and her fate, are given greater importance above all else, and the player is criticized for taking the easy way out and killing her to save the world with a bad ending where Shirou becomes an unfettered murderer who will likely kill anyone or anything he sees as a threat to the greater good.
I don't know, feels like biased against Sakura or a stealth scrappy entry.
Uni cat
YMMV.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 6 E 12 Flutter Brutter
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: It would've been significantly easier to see Zephyr as a proper Jerkass Woobie if he hadn't casually destroyed others' property.
Zepher gets No Sympathy for that part, in fact Fluttershy is pissed at him for it. The only ones sympathizing with him are his parents which is presented as a flaw on their behalf. Cutting unless anyone objects.
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Apr 20th 2019 at 3:37:05 AM
Cut since the example doesn't seem unintentional.
I was in the process of bringing an example here when I spotted the following. Before I bring it, can I just double-check the following?
Isn't the problem with extending this trope to entire groups that the trope description itself does not? It speaks in terms of characters only (especially Unintentionally Sympathetic).
Also, I thought tropes aren't supposed to become generalised like that unless it's a trope that's created for group situations? These two appear to have been designed with characters in mind, not 'groups'. I suppose what I'm asking is, at what point does Tropes Are Flexible stop being flexible and become a change in trope definition or scope?
Edited by Wyldchyld on Apr 23rd 2019 at 12:02:19 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
From YMMV.Mortal Kombat 11:
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic:
- The Revenants are this with a dose of Took a Level in Jerkass. While in MKX they warrant more sympathy due to being turned into undead slaves of Quan Chi and Shinnok and reasonably point out to Raiden that their deaths were caused by him, this game doesn't give them any excuses for how utterly cruel and twisted they have become. The Revenants whenever on-screen fill a constant need to tell everyone they meet that Raiden killed them or lead them to their deaths and act like victims despite committing horrible and heinous acts while doing so, making them seem like hypocritical and childish assholes, with the sole exception being Revenant!Kabal who doesn't linger on it much like the others do. Revanant!Liu Kang and Jade are the biggest examples among them due to how depraved and sadistic they have become, with Jade acting like a two-faced condescending bitch and Liu Kang actively going against his archetype, going so low as to not only kill his former ally but even capture his past self and use Shinnok's magic to devour his soul.
- Older Jax after siding with Kronika. While it's true that he is essentially traumatized from his time as a Revenant and losing his wife while constantly worrying if his daughter will make it home each time she goes into battle, Jax's motives appear to be quite overprotective and misogynistic to a degree, even believing Jacqui only enlisted to honor him when in actuality enlisted simply because of her own goals. Even his younger self is disgusted by how disgraceful and pathetic he's being by trying to selfishly create a alternate version of the timeline where he retires as an honored war hero and Jacqui doesn't enlist, forgetting completely that the only reason she exists is because her trauma led to him meeting his wife and having their daughter. While he does repent for his actions after Raiden tells him the truth, it still doesn't excuse Jax's actions
Both of these examples are about villains. They may have sympathetic traits, but we're not supposed to cheer for them and want them to win. This reads like pure complaining.
Goku Black
I swear that the mortal kombat thread already agreed in discussion that the second one isn't an example.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Cut then.
- Unintentionally Sympathetic: Despite his increased competence and ruthlessness, Mumm-Ra is still this. His constant defeats have made the Ancient Spirits of evil regard him as useless, and when he pulls a brilliant plan and almost kills He-Man, he ends up betrayed and reduced to ashes. In that form, he is still alive, but cannot do much when Skeletor turns him into an elixir he then drinks to steal his immortality. Once he tries to fight back it results with him and Skeletor being trapped together in one body, neither able to gain full control. The story could as well be titled "Mumm-Ra’s Really Bad Day". At least he gets back at the Ancient Spirits of Evil for their betrayal.
Mumm-Ra is approved as a Complete Monster, which means he's beyond any such sympathy and sounds like he karmically deserved all this misery. I'm cutting unless anyone objects.
- Part of why Cassandra is such a conflicting character boils down to this trope; the pilot film has her vehemently tell Rapunzel to not tell Eugene about why her magic hair's grown back, not caring that it could possibly jeopardize their entire relationship, and her attitude about Eugene being selfish, which ignores how she didn't want Rapunzel to tell Eugene what happened because it'd affect her alone. "Challenge of the Brave" hasn't particularly helped due to her attempting to sabotage Rapunzel's chances of winning the games, which could have gotten her seriously injured at best, or killed at worst. Then there's the matter of her rivalry with Eugene, in which she is usually more nasty and vicious toward him than he is toward her, and her willful ignoring of the fact that she wouldn't even know her best friend Rapunzel if it hadn't been for Eugene bringing her back home after temporarily dying for her sake (Not to mention her being so vocal about not trusting Eugene heavily implies that she doesn't trust Rapunzel's own judgment). This comes full circle once again in season 2 from her rude interactions with Adira and how it seems to stem from how the older woman curbstomped her as well as having Rapunzel’s respect and trust over hers. To make maters worse, its revealed in her "I Want" Song that she's more concerned about how she won't get her time to shine as a hero rather than for Rapunzel's safety. The way it was played makes Cassandra look like a Spoiled Brat and an Attention Whore. Given her face heel turn in the season 2 finale, it's most likely intentional.
I'm cutting since the last part suggests she was never meant to be sympathetic.
YMMV.How To Train Your Dragon The Hidden World
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Throughout the movie, Toothless seems all too keen to leave his best friend of 6 years behind for some dragon he's just met, and does so at the end. The worst of it comes in the climax, when he's willing to sell out every single dragon from Berk into a life of slavery simply to save the Light Fury's life. What a great king.
I intend to cut since 1. doesn't explain the unintentional part (what redeeming traits were supposed to counterbalance this). 2. a love intreats as hostage is a valid reason (tons of heroes across all genres freeze up at that) 3. Said best friend supports them leaving even before circumstance forced it and they reconnect in the epilog. Any objections?
Planeswalker
I'd say cut it for now but if it's added with more context it might be valid. Point 3 has nothing to do with whether the audience buys Toothless being in the right.
Oissu!
Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Throughout the movie, Toothless seems all too keen to leave his best friend of 6 years behind for some dragon he's just met, and does so at the end. The worst of it comes in the climax, when he's willing to sell out every single dragon from Berk into a life of slavery simply to save the Light Fury's life. What a great king.
I intend to cut since 1. doesn't explain the unintentional part (what redeeming traits were supposed to counterbalance this). 2. a love intreats as hostage is a valid reason (tons of heroes across all genres freeze up at that) 3. Said best friend supports them leaving even before circumstance forced it and they reconnect in the epilog. Any objections?
I think Toothless should be considered an example of this trope for two reasons: 1) He abandons his flock to go after the Light Fury, when they needed him the most 2) He was perfectly ok with having them enslaved by Grimmel and the Warlords just to save the Light Fury
I also think we should put Hiccup under the "Unintentionally Sympathetic" trope, considering the movie doesn't show us why or how he relies too much on Toothless (his behavior isn't different from the previous entries of the franchise) and he was accused of being selfish in his relationship with Toothless for no apparent reason.
For Toothless, it must be explained why the reasons he was supposed to be sympathetic despite those actions and circumstance (which is what I listed) didn't measure up in the eyes of fans. Hiccup can be added under Unintentionally Sympathetic for why you listed.
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on May 28th 2019 at 2:54:56 AM
For Toothless, it must be explained why the reasons he was supposed to be sympathetic despite those actions and circumstance (which is what I listed) didn't measure up in the eyes of fans.
Well, Toothless seems to be more focused on finding the Light Fury than being a good Alpha for his flock. While we are supposed to cheer for him and his love life, this doesn't change the fact that he basically ignored all his responsabilities and that he was ready to abandon both Hiccup nd the other dragons when they needed him the most. The movie tried to paint his actions as him "growing up", but he came across as an irresponsable leader,who was ready to throw under the bus all of his subjects to save one single dragon. Even him forcing the other dragons to save the Light Fury is unsympathetic, considering that he is basically condemning them to a life of slavery.
It's debatable if Toothless has the level of sapience to count.
But you've made your point that he was supposed to be sympathetic since he was growing up and maturing but came off ass a bad leader instead (notable since Hiccup was presented as having to learn to do so). Will add back now.
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: We're supposed to cheer for Toothless and his love life, but he abandons both Hiccup and his flock of dragons when they need him most over the Light Fury and willing to condemn his flock to enslavement so save her once she's taken hostage. This made Toothless come off unwilling to sacrifice his own wants for the good of those he leads, which Hiccup was presented as in the wrong for and had to overcome.
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on May 30th 2019 at 12:52:53 PM
While we're on the subject of G4 MLP...
Unintentionally Sympathetic: "Rainbow Dash in "The Mysterious Mare-Do-Well." The episode is notorious for making it look like the rest of the cast goes overboard in trying to teach Dash humility, thinking that Dash's actions weren't bad enough to merit the treatment she got. Conceited about it or not, Rainbow saved no less than six lives."
Yeah... I think I'll cut this one. While Rainbow did save lives, she did it in such an obnoxious way which is why she's the villain of the episode, rather than say Luna or Discord.
And she did need a lesson in humility. I mean, without that, would episodes like Hurricane Fluttershy be as impactful where she's shown to put others ahead of her ego?