Base Breaking Character Cleanup

We should also ask if he should be placed as The Scrappy instead. I think he should personally. Nahyuta basically has the same reputation as Ga’ran in the fandom when it comes to popularity.

I think he has too many fans for that, personally. I’ve seen enough people who like him or just think he’s fine.

Yeah he sssms to be in that weird middle ground where he doesn’t have enough defenders to be Base Breaking but too many to be a scrappy. I recall Corrin in Smash Bros fell into that grey area as well

In YMMV.Fire Emblem Heroes, under the Base-Breaking Character entry:

• Gullveig has garnered a very divisive reception, even before Book VII had ended. On one hand, her fans love Gullveig for being a surprisingly sad and sympathetic villain who was destined to destroy the world and everyone she loved. In addition, they love her for having a heartfelt ending with her past selves Kvasir and Seiðr once the cycle is broken, wanting to give her the happiness that she deserves. The fact that she won Choose Your Legends 7 and received a Brave version upon learning this information helped win the hearts of her fans. On the other hand, Gullveig's detractors hate Gullveig as they believe the game's attempts to make her sympathetic fall flat for several reasons: First, despite being Seiðr from the future, Gullveig has no personality, motivation or desire other than to destroy the world, which makes her come across as a Generic Doomsday Villain despite not doing anything truly villainous after her introduction of defeating the heroes in the first chapter. Second, they believed that Gullveig killing Njörðr immediately after the reveal that he was behind her creation, combined with Nerþuz removing the curse that Njörðr had transferred to Seiðr after said reveal took away any and all Catharsis Factor to killing both Njörðr and Gullveig, making the story end off on a very anticlimactic note than anticipated after said reveal. Her very sexy design certainly didn't help matters either, as some either love her design because of it, or hate it for the same reason.

I'm sorry, when did she become divisive again?

Removed Nahyuta from Spirit of Justice. I won’t list him as the Scrappy for now, however.

I’m surprised that Sir Topham Hatt, aka the Fat Controller from Thomas & Friends isn’t listed as BBC, considering how divisive he is in the fandom. One part of the fandom sees him as a tyrant who needlessly punishes his engines (especially since their drivers aren’t even factored in at all for the most part), while the other part sees him as a Reasonable Authority Figure that keeps his engines in line.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Nov 27th 2023 at 8:49:17 AM

You could always list him yourself.

Yeah I know, I was just bringing him up just to see if you guys agree with that assessment or not

x5 ~Siegfried1337

I'm not sure how accurate my perception is since I'm not especially up to date on FEH anymore, but here's my two cents.

Two vocal factions of a similar size: Even as someone who loves the Original Generation storyline, FEH is still very much Play the Game, Skip the Story, I doubt anyone significantly hates or loves Gullveig to a degree. Most people, I imagine, don't care about her in general, because Book VII hasn't really captivated as many people and was also just generally confusing to read over the period of a year.

Little to no middle ground: As above, not caring about Gullveig is a perfectly feasible option.

Vicious conflict: Ties into the above, not many are going to bat over one's reception of Gullveig.

Sustained conflict: Actually, since Book VII literally just ended, this probably doesn't even qualify because it should be 6 months from the time the story concludes? Most of these plot reveals are fairly recent, easily within the last six months.

I'm sure she has fans and haters (basically all the Original Generation characters are divisive because of FEH's general quality of writing) but she's hardly Base-Breaking Character material and she's also too recent for it.

x6 If there's no sustained conflict they don't qualify

Also, I recall it being said somewhere one-shot characters in franchises should be restricted to that work's page rather than the franchise page. I'm wondering how strict/literal that rule is meant to be. For example, the page for Marvel Cinematic Universe contains Harley Kenner who has appeared in two films, Iron Man 3 and Avengers: Endgame, but the latter appearance was just a voiceless background cameo. Similarly Justin Hammer's only appearance after Iron Man 2 was in The Stinger of short film All Hail the King. Should they be really counted as recurring characters if they each only had one plot-important role?

I think Nagito Komaeda needs to go from Danganronpa. He's not universally beloved, but his fans far outnumber his haters, and most of his haters, hate Danganronpa as a whole anyway. So they're more like Fan Hater. Also in both the Japanese and English characters polls for Goodbye Despair, Nagito scored right near the top with only Chiaki beating him in the English side. Most people who play the game and watch the anime tend to like Nagito, whereas with Kokichi the hatred for him is more annoyance at Yaoi Fangirls.

Edited by Klavice on Nov 29th 2023 at 4:54:40 AM

Wait so can a character not count as a BBC if their detractors hate the work?

Does adding a couple of words make it stop being ZCE?

(x3) Since his fans seem to outnumber his detractors enough, then I feel he can go.

I think only if all of the character's detractors or enough of them hate the work; being a Base-Breaking Character requires roughly one half of the work's fandom to hate the character.

I wouldn't call that zero-context at least since it states she's divisive and explains it. However, I'm wondering if that's including people who hate the work due to the way it's written. (I don't have much familiarity with that game's reception.)

I think YMMV.MILGRAM needs a cleanup on its Base-Breaking Character entry, but I'm having trouble figuring out how to put the right context into this post.

Milgram is designed to be divisive since it uses a binary voting system. Each character gets maybe three months in the spotlight, and the season itself lasts for close to two years. Then the new season comes along and shakes up the characters. (Would the timing make it hard for anyone to count as a base breaker?)

• The characters in the first three entries were divisive (though I don't know how heated things got; I wasn't there), but they got much more decisive votes in the second trial. Does this disqualify them?
• The fourth entry seems to have been written at the time of the second trial announcement. Too soon? The indented point suggests that she's no longer splitting the base (and the majority of what I have seen is on one side). So maybe that should be deleted.

Edited by k5972 on Dec 2nd 2023 at 12:28:04 PM

That would disqualify several main characters from the title, for example, would Jen Walters from She-Hulk: Attorney at Law still count? Because if you hate Jen you hate the show, I've yet to see anybody who only hates one of those. Or is that fine because it's an entry in a larger franchise?

I've seen people fluctuate over what the rule should be, so perhaps it needs clarifying. I've seen both that:

• Hatedoms are not the same thing as Fandoms, and their reasons for existing clash, making it chairs that these two groups fight about the work. Therefore, BB and BBC need to be fandom-specific, and not fandom v hatedom, and you ignore hatedoms for the purpose of this kind of thing.
• It's fine for it to be fandom versus hatedom because hatedoms count as "fandom". The requirement is that the two must be relatively equal in size.

I'm very dubious about the second argument because fandoms and hatedoms are fundamentally different and exist for different, clashing reasons. It's far more noteworthy (due to rarity) that a fandom and hatedom find something to agree on and not fight about.

I personally think the best way to handle YMMV/audience reactions like BB and BBC is that the split needs to be "war-within-fandom or war-within-hatedom, but never war-between-fandom-and-hatedom". You capture hatedoms as well as fandoms that way, but exclude the chairs situation of fandoms and hatedoms warring with each other.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Dec 3rd 2023 at 2:06:14 PM

It's pretty simple IMO. The "base" is the fandom. So it's fandom V. fandom. Of course fans and haters clash — that's the natural order! Base breaking stuff is more akin to a civil war.

So can She-Hulk count if its regarding MCU fans?

I'm not sure that's a very fair argument. Would MCU fans who are overall fans of the MCU but don't like She-Hulk be a "hatedom"? I'd say no because they're franchise-wide fans who happen to not like an entry of said franchise.

I mean, it depends on what you consider the base to be, I guess. The audience of the show in specific, or the wider MCU fandom?

I feel like it is for the specific show. If She Hulk was a recurring character across multiple works in the MCU, I could see her counting and using the MCU fandom as a whole, but since she only appears in one single show that show's fandom should be what we consider. So, no I don't think she counts as most of those who hate her hate the show.

Edited by Bullman on Dec 5th 2023 at 2:30:29 PM

I'd consider the wider MCU fandom to be the base because the MCU is an interconnected franchise and the characters appear in each other's entries and each entry (ostensibly) affects the wider world around it. Matt Murdock appeared in She-Hulk, for instance, as did the Hulk himself. Presumably Jen will be appearing in more shows or movies down the line.

Edited by PhiSat on Dec 5th 2023 at 2:56:17 AM

But She Hulk has not appeared in other fandoms and there has been no hint that she will. It seems weird to judge by the rest of the franchise when she has only appeared in the one show. That is like judging the waitress from the Avengers by the whole franchise's fandom. If and when Jen appears again (which I don't see any hint of happening right now) I would feel more comfortable with judging her by the franchise fandom, but for now it makes more sense to just use the She Hulk one.

Edited by Bullman on Dec 5th 2023 at 4:00:12 AM

So delete the she hulk entry for now?