The Broken Base cleanup thread discusses about examples in Broken Base, but this talks about examples in YMMV pages of works containing Base-Breaking Character, (despite being an Example Sectionectomy, this can still be seen in the YMMV pages of works) where the details on what is suitable is also vague.
Here is the criteria for Base-Breaking Character:
- A long-term, sustained conflict: Characters that were simply hated and loved, then had their interest evaporated away (both positive and negative) after a few months doesn't count. Characters in upcoming works also don't count.
- A vicious conflict: Factions that have little problem co-existing and doesn't mind about what the other faction likes or dislikes about the character doesn't count. If it's not particularly vicious and heated, then it would be cut or be listed as a Downplayed Trope.
- Two (or more) vocal, almost equally sized factions: A tiny Vocal Minority that doesn't shut up their pet peeve, whilst being outnumbered by more reasonable fans don't count. Nor does a Silent Majority who doesn't make a big deal with the other side count. If one of the hating factions is significantly bigger than the other, it would be classified as The Scrappy or an Ensemble Dark Horse.
- Little to no Middle ground: Scenarios where most of the fandom doesn't care about the character, don't count.
Base-Breaking Character is when half of the fandom likes a character, yet another equally sized half dislikes it. Now that happens, but the problem is, some entries aren't really contentious (thus not resulting in flame wars when someone says they "liked that character"). Also, several entries are one-sided towards the negative or the positive side describing that only side in detail, but then wrapping up with a single line saying "But the other half likes that character". A correct way would be describing it like "a split in the Fandom on who likes it or not", with details on both sides why they're liked and disliked.
Here's an example from YMMV.Undertale:
- Alphys. A lot of players find her character gimmick of constant messages and attempts to help more annoying than funny, especially on repeat playthroughs. And even though she has sympathetic reasons, the reveal that she's been experimenting on sick monsters to create the Amalgamates and manipulating the player to feel better about herself doesn't help, especially since she never directly apologizes for the latter.
While it may have annoyed players due to these reasons above, there has been a considerable amount of fanarts and comics or her, and not only that, the like-dislike situation hasn't been so contentious (compared to Sans, whom he's popular, now he sucks.)
edited 21st Feb '18 1:46:31 PM by AppleGates
She / Her
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
To my knowledge, if the work is scripted, then yes.
Edited by RandomTroper123 on Oct 4th 2022 at 7:54:26 AM
Real Life Troping has a section on Reality TV that might help.
Most Base-Breaking Character entries in such shows are about the contestant's placement/ranks, i.e. whether they are actually talented/qualified enough to hog that much screentime over other contestants and/or judges' approval, and not about the "character's" personality and whatnot, so I don't know if the script actually matters here.
Regardless, most of the discussion surrounding the contestants are limited a particular season, which usually last for less than six months, and the people are then forgotten in favour of new contestants in the next season. In that case, does this disqualify any of them from being Base-Breaking Character?
Ducktales 2017 has many entries for broken base characters, but none of them seem to indicate the "sustained" or "heavy division" that a broken base requires. One is listed as an aversion because she looked like she had the potential to be divisive, but wasn't.
Some of these could be actual entries, but need rewriting.
- Mark Beaks. He's either a funny look at modern business tycoons who's a surprisingly clever, worthwhile new villain, or an unfunny attempt to keep the franchise relevant and lacking as a new member of the Rogues Gallery due to his rather harmless nature compared to the other members. This was reduced somewhat after "Who Is Gizmoduck?" and "The Dangerous Chemistry of Gandra Dee", where he becomes a Not-So-Harmless Villain and a fitting nemesis for Fenton/Gizmoduck, plus his final appearance in the series showing that his own desperation for relevancy was an intentional part of his character.
- Webby. While the consensus among the fanbase is that the new version of the character is a vast improvement, some people think that the show goes too far in making her proactive and made her too good for everything, stealing a lot of spotlight from the triplets. It doesn't help that the unfortunate reshuffling of the episodes early on gave her a lot of screen time, whereas things would have been more balanced if they had aired in the intended order. The fact that the Magica arc that's been one of the main plotlines for the first season has Webby as the primary focus character in each episode related to it thus far while the rest of the cast have all only had minor roles overall in it, including Scroogenote , also hasn't helped the case for people who view her as the latter. In morally grey conflicts such as the Della incident and other personal McDuck-Duck family matters, the writers also have a tendency to take Webby's side when she joins the argument. In fact, the few times that the writers don't side with Dewey on controversial matters, Webby is the one that is usually portrayed as being in the right.
- Dewey for similar reasons as Webby: some people love him due to his new adventurous personality, his following in Scrooge's footsteps, and last but not least his sympathetic moments, while others have grown to dislike him feeling he takes too much focus from the other characters, being the only one of the brothers tied up in the Della plotlinenote and appearing in more episodes than any other character, as well as often being at the forefront of many episodes and often more competent than some characters in spite of his Leeroy Jenkins attitude, and often at Scrooge and Donald's expense. Coupled with some of his controversial actions in later episodes that have the writers taking his side, such as in "Sky Pirates... in the Sky" or "The Secrets of Castle McDuck," some people are even starting to view him growing dangerously close to Creators' Pet territory. His increasing narcissism as the show goes on doesn't help either.
- It also does not help that even through Della is the triplet's mother, Dewey gets the lion's share of the stories revolving around her and what happened to her. Louie and Huey only get involved around the end of season 1 and briefly speak about her in the first episode of Season 2 but that's it. But then again, although Huey and Louie love her and want her in their lives, they seem to accept the fact that she's gone As far as they know and made mistakes much easier than Dewey does, so this may be intentional.
- Huey. Fans either love him for being an outstanding Junior Woodchuck, others think the Junior Woodchuck aspect of his personality has become too gimmicky and dominant, at the expense of Character Development, his supposedly nicer personality, and even at times his intelligence itself. Is he drastically underdeveloped when compared to his brothers, whose personalities make it easier for them to take spotlights in the episodes? Many fans want Huey to get a story arc of his own where he's front and center. Since Season 1 was Dewey's season and Season 2 is said to be Louie's season, here's looking at you season 3!
- Louie is also divisive, mainly from those who find his more jerkish, skewed behavior annoying and unlikable, or those who find him funny and appreciate his nicer moments and the character development he undergoes in Season 2.
- Launchpad's increasingly eccentric behavior. Some find him annoying and a poor man's Soos (they're both meant to be ditzy Friend to All Children.) who's more of an incompetent scaredy cat than the original version, some think he's hilarious and still has plenty of moments to shine, and some think that while the current version isn't bad, it would still improve the character to make him more heroic.
- Some fans consider Manny the Headless Man-Horse to be an Ensemble Dark Horse, while others consider him to be a Running Gag that has overstayed its welcome. This changes after the Grand Finale revealed that Manny is actually be Beast of the Apocalypse who's also an Expy of Goliath.
- Roxanne Featherly is also this, mainly in how later episodes make her more egocentric and concerned only with getting interesting news over the truth, in stark contrast to her neutral portrayal as a honest reporter in the pilot. She's still tolerated by some people though.
- Doofus Drake definitely qualifies, being a sociopathic, entitled brat as opposed to the dorky, good natured kid he is in the original. You love him or hate him.
- Gyro Gearloose being more of a jerk in this series is either seen as an insult to a character who's generally nice and laid back, or those who like, or at least, don't mind the change, given that he's more inclined to stand up for himself. This has decreased a bit as of "Astro B.O.Y.D.", which adequately explains why he became the way he is and gives him some Character Development toward being a kinder person.
- Flintheart Glomgold is either darkly hilarious and threatening or annoying and trying too hard to be funny. The fact he went through Villain Decay to little more than a nuisance has also split the fanbase, from those who think it's a step backward for someone who's usually a crafty planner and was introduced as such in the pilot, or those who think it works since it's meant to show how he's the opposite of Scrooge in trying to go too far with petty goals, and it's all just part of a plan to get his stride back.
- Magica de Spell. When she initially appeared, there are those who thought making her into a Knight of Cerebus was trying too hard to be like the competition, or those who figured it works since later episodes give her more of a darkly comedic edge. The other camp is split on her motives being mysterious and shadowed in illusion (since she wants to get rid of Scrooge for trapping her in his dime, and not much else), from those who think she's rather cliché or those who think the mysterious element works since it's just about building her up to be even more sinister and her backstory is still one with potential.
- Surprisingly enough, Donald Duck himself, mainly due to his treatment of Scrooge. While most of the fanbase loves him for how devoted he is to his nephews, a certain part of it does not like how he handled the fall out of Della's disappearance. From laying all the blame for the Spear of Selene at Scrooge's feet and refusing to acknowledge that Della had a choice. It also does not help that he deliberately kept Scrooge and the triplets apart for a decade, and never even told the triplets that Scrooge was their Uncle. In fact, he never would have told them if he had not been forced to. There's also fact that despite knowing how attached the triplets had become to Scrooge, Webby, and the others, he was still planning on forcing the boys to move back to the marina during the entirety of Season 1. Others fans don't like that, even though it is understandable, Donald essentially kept the triplets in a Gilded Cage for 10 years and never really let them do anything. They say it is not fair to the boys. This is aggravated by the fact that a large portion of the fandom refuses to acknowledge that Donald has any faults, and did use Scrooge as sort of a scapegoat once Della disappeared.
- Della is a base breaking character for choosing adventure over her kids for a short amount of time. The events of "Timephoon" and especially "Glomtales" have broken the base on Della even further. The fans are mainly divided on whether her punishment of Louie bordered on child neglect, was justified but went too far due to her inexperience, or was well deserved based on what Louie did in the two above mentioned episodes.
- A surprising aversion seems to be with Lena of all characters: When she was first announced, most people disregarded her and felt she would wanna pander to the "cool kids" crowd... only for the show to reveal that she was actually aiding Magica de Spell (who is her aunt), which quelled most concerns. Then the show went full fledged with disregarding most of the "cool kid" aesthetic Lena has and made her a full fledged broken and tormented character due to borderline controlling and emotional grasp Magica has on her, pretty much shattering the Broken Base around her. Nowadays, she is one of the most popular characters on the show and often regarded as the best newcomer to the show.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
From Our Flag Means Death:
- Base-Breaking Character: The fandom tends to be split between those who see Izzy as a straight up villain trying to push Edward into being Blackbeard for his own gratification, and those who see him as an emotionally stunted Only Sane Man trying to maintain the shield that's kept both him and Edward safe and successful during their careers as pirates.
I don't see any mention of flame wars which is required. I haven't really been paying enough attention to this fandom to rewrite. Is it cool if I hide it?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Found this on the Owl House tree.
- Belos is either considered one of the best Disney villains in recent years or a Flat Character, with no personality besides being an Hate Sink. To some fans his personality and behavior come across as too similar to other villains like Ozai and Horde Prime while others have argued he behaves exactly like many dictators and cult leaders in real life.
I have not seen much division on him? There might be some people who dislike him out there but the general reaction I have seen with him is Love to Hate precisely because of how much of a pure evil bastard he is.
The First man
That's my experience as well. For those reasons, I don't think he counts either.
She / Her
I'm unsure how true it is, though it does violate Administrivia.Examples Are Not Recent.
From Chainsaw Man:
- Inevitably, with the reveal that she was the main antagonist of the manga all along and that she orchestrated almost all of the events of the story, Makima completely divided the fans. One camp thinks of her as an interesting, complex and badass villain who makes the series more interesting anytime she takes the spotlight, as well as having a tragic side revealed in the last chapter that makes her pitiable too, while another one despise her for her heinous actions that caused both the deaths of many innocents and of a considerable amount of beloved characters (including Aki) and her emotional manipulation and abuse of Denji, such as coldly murdering Power in front of him and awakening the memory that he killed his father to further break him. There is also a third camp that considers Makima a compelling and effective villain, but still despise her for her villainy.
Is this actually an example of Base-Breaking Character? Considering that she's the Big Bad of the first saga, her being hated for her actions was likely meant to be an Intended Audience Reaction. Furthermore, the way the edit is worded, it doesn't sound like anyone hates her as a character, just as a person, which feels kind of pointless to list since - once again - villain.
By that same token, does Katana Man actually count as a Base-Breaking Character, given that his motivations are supposed to be hypocritical (and it doesn't seem like we're supposed to sympathise with him)? I understand people hating him for killing Himeno, but, like Makima, I'm fairly certain that we're supposed to hate him for that.
Edited by WiryAiluropodine on Oct 28th 2022 at 10:05:22 PM
A character being a Hate Sink doesn't prevent them from being a base breaking character. That's only an issue for The Scrappy. The main problem both of those entries don't provide any evidence that differing opinions of those characters are causing conflict within the fandom.
A nice swimmer
Adding to the Chainsaw Man examples, Kobeni and Himeno have been moved from Ensemble Dark Horse to here in light of the anime releasing.
Kobeni was due to the bad first impression she made on the Eternity Devil arc, and Himeno was due to her almost sleeping with Denji, a minor, when she was drunk.
However... i see it as a bit of a too early move for them to be moved to BBC, the anime hasn't released fully, and from the most recent episode, the reaction to Kobeni has surprisingly turned into more positive.
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
Isn't Kobeni a major character?
If all the arguing comes from the anime side of the fandom then it's definitely too soon to qualify.
A nice swimmer
Not to the degree of say Aki, Power, Makima and those. She's prominent, but she does not appear always.
Do we revert the two of them back to EDH and put a note to not move it until later? Or do we leave it as it is?
Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Nov 26th 2022 at 6:05:00 AM
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
Judging from that, she sounds a little too prominent to be an Ensemble Dark Horse, which is for minor characters only.
Way I see it, you have primary, secondary, and tertiary characters, and if the primary cast is small enough, Ensemble Dark Horse is flexible enough that secondary characters can qualify. But if it's the kind of work that's very episodic or where there's a lot of tertiary or one-off characters, then secondary characters might be a little too prominent for that.
Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 26th 2022 at 9:20:57 AM
A nice swimmer
I would say she's just small enough to qualify (my opinion at least). But let's focus back on the thing with their status.
You think erasing their entries on the Chainsaw Man ymmv page would be the way to go, considering it's still to early to say?
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
Yeah, especially if it ends up blowing over fast. I've seen a lot more backlash to the backlash against Kobeni than any of the original backlash so she's not a real BBC if people are that defensive of her.
A nice swimmer
I think i might revert it to their original EDH status, due to how defensive they got.
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
Found this on Base-Breaking Character.Pokemon:
- Dawn, while generally liked during most of the anime's history and being regarded as one of the two most popular female companions, her many returns in Journeys have left mixed feelings. While her fans generally welcomed her, the fact that she has remained a Static Character (in terms of her personality, appearance, accomplishments, and her team's line-up) and that she appears far more often than any other companion left negative reactions to her overall character. Outside of the Alolan cast, Dawn hasn't shown signs of growth or change unlike any other companion, making her a case of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character. However, the fact that she's the only returning companion to actively watch Ash's final WCS battle at the stadium unlike everyone else has also gained her a lot more favorable views.
If this is more about how she was handled in the latest season, would that be more Broken Base? Then again, I'm not super knowledgable about the exact discourse in general.
"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
Cut. Unless it's somethings the fanbase has been arguing about having "mixed feelings" on a character or how they were handled isn't BB or BBC
She / Her
Perchance this isn't the right place for this, however, should the Base-Breaking Character entries on YMMV.Total Drama Presents The Ridonculous Race be moved to BaseBreakingCharacter.Total Drama?
Hi. I have one question: How does one prove a BBC has “Split the fanbase into at least two vocal factions of similar size, little to no middle ground, a vicious conflict and a sustained base of fans and haters“? I tried to have an entry for Makoto Niijima from Persona 5 reinstated but it was denied. Which is the thing, from what I’ve noticed in the fandom she’s still extremely divisive. I mean I’ve been to Reddit Twitter, Gamefaqs, Tumblr, Facebook, and You Tube and all of those places have people who hate along with the people who love her. People who dislike her on those online communities would say “Makoto is overrate/overhyped” or ”boring, bland” and “Sae is better” along with people who like her saying the “relate to her” and stuff. They would even fight over her writing qualities saying she’s poorly written, feels forced or is well written and is the heroine of the story. How is none of that proof enough of Makoto being a BBC?
Edited by donnjpierre7 on Dec 21st 2022 at 4:56:16 AM
'Sup?
Does Pudding actually count? I think Sanji is more controversial, and he was still cut.
¿?¡!
By the way, can contestants in talent shows/reality TV ever qualify as Base-Breaking Character? They're not permanent "cast" members of the show, and any controversy surrounding the people would probably be forgotten once the season is over (which is usually after the six-month waiting period)
Edited by Adept on Oct 4th 2022 at 8:57:01 PM