Broken Base Cleanup

I found this on Hyperdimension Neptunia Sisters Vs Sisters

• Broken Base: The shift to action RPG gameplay. Some may find it more streamlined, while others may feel that it dumbs down battles.

Now I’m a bit torn here cause Sisters Vs Sisters ended up in the west one year after its initial japanese release, and I’m unsure if its also a reaction from japanese fans. So any thoughts?

That entry feels too mild to count as BB. Also, from what I can find the overall reception is largely positive, not really split.

These are from Pokémon: The Series:

• Was Journeys a series worthy of being Ash and Pikachu's swan song or did any of the previous series serve a better note to end their story on? Many fans are split on the anime's decision to suddenly retire the duo now when they've been around for 25 years while others are very open to the torch being passed down to two new protagonists while admitting that it is bittersweet to to see the boy and his Pikachu leave after all these years.

• Ash's loss to Misty in a battle to determine the ownership of a Clauncher in JN138 coming right off the heels of his Masters Eight Tournament victory (also ending his longest trainer battle winning streak in the process at 87 episodes) has quickly gathered many split opinions. Supporters point out that Misty has had plenty of time to grow stronger thanks to her job as a Gym Leader, and that it doesn't necessarily take away from Ash's status as the World Champion since it was a casual battle and he was using Corphish (a Pokémon that, while a strong battler in his own right, had not been used in battle since Advanced Generation, over 16 years ago) rather than Pikachu or any of the other members of his Journeys team. However, critics point out that Corphish has defeated Pokemon belonging to Frontier Brains (trainers that have been implied to be on par with Elite Four members) and that both Kingler and Dracovish saw victories in their very first battles, thus making it obvious that the writers simply wanted Misty to have Clauncher, while also leaving a bitter feeling that Ash lost a battle (regardless of the circumstances) in his final hurrah as the protagonist.

These two entries are too recent to qualify, with Journeys still ongoing as of this writing, the announcement of them being retired and Ash winning the Masters 8 were back in late 2022, and the latter's Japanese air date being on January 20th, 2023. Free to cut?

Edited by KageTsuki88 on Feb 2nd 2023 at 2:59:07 PM

Is the miniseries even part of Journeys? I thought that Journeys is already over, and the miniseries is a separate installment.

Last I checked it's part of Journeys but I could be wrong.

Second one can be cut regardless since the miniseries isn't over yet. Might want to wait on the first until someone can verify whether they're separate or not.

Snip it too, then.

Edited by badtothebaritone on Feb 2nd 2023 at 2:31:10 PM

In any case, Journeys is still too recent even if we consider the late 2022 episodes as the final ones, not to mention the announcement it mentions.

Edited by KageTsuki88 on Feb 2nd 2023 at 3:30:09 PM

YMMV.Tokyo Xanadu has this:

• The True Ending. Fans are split on whether the True Ending's better than the Normal Ending. On one hand, Kou gets a chance to bring back Shiori, and he succeeds, which ends off everything on a happy note. And the option to choose the True Ending is shown only if the player chooses to do a lot of the optional stuff in the previous chapters to get Kou's stats high enough, so it somewhat matches with the game's message of the importance of one's choices (which is unsubtly mentioned again and again by Rem). On the other hand, though, the retconning of Shiori's death is thought to undermine the idea that Kou and the other residents of Morimiya must learn to move on from the great lie that they had lived in, and to some even makes this feel like a "Shaggy Dog" Story as the entire build-up to this point is just undone like that. Moreover, it's made possible because of the Nine-Tailed Fox, of whom there were few to no signs in the foregoing chapters, and so he came off as a Deus ex Machina that the writers put in to give the story a happy ending that it didn't truly need, and so the Normal Ending is seen as bolder and more coherent. This is allayed by the After Story in the eX+ version, which shows off how Kou, Shiori, and the others are now doing and reveals that reviving Shiori also unwittingly came with reviving the Twilight Apostle.

I posted this in the Wall Of Text cleanup, but I don’t understand the instructions very well regarding that, so I think this is the best next place.

bumping

Found these at YMMV.Hypnosis Mic

• Broken Base:
  • Around the same time the finals of the first Battle Season was taking place, fans from the Western and Korean fandoms dug up old tweets from Yuichiro Momose, the series' scenario writer, from 10 years ago, where he made pedophilic and misogynistic jokes (some being edgy copypastas from 2channel). Meanwhile, the Japanese fanbase hasn't heard of this nor cares. It turns out a lot of this drama originated from a biased mistranslation created by a disgruntled fan.
  • Alternative Rap Battle. Is it a fun title where you can play your favourite songs, or a terribly grind-heavy cheap game too difficult to properly enjoy? The Japanese fanbase has been vocal on their dislike of it, while the western fandom is split between those who love it and hate it. A lot of the complaints comes from the Early Game Hell that takes a long time (and money) it takes to even properly level up, and it doesn't help that the very first event has left a bad taste in many players on how grindy it was.
  • Subaru Kimura has not been looked upon fondly by the Western fandom for his use of blackface, especially in a music genre that originated from black communities. ^note For context, his agency promoted a set of bromides that included him in various comedic costumes. One included him with the intention of him looking like a rapper but his face was painted brown. Not only did he nor his agency never issue an official apology, but he went on to doing things like wearing a curly wig while lip-synching a rap song on his TikTok. However, this is not a big of a deal in the Japanese fandom in comparison because most of the target demographic there are unaware or don't like to discuss such issues.

I'm very unsure of the first two but the third one feels more Americans Hate Tingle than BB, though I don't know if that the former applies to people like it does with works.

Any other thoughts

This is an entry I wished to add to https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/BrokenBase/PokemonTheSeries but I've bolded a section that I'm unsure if it belongs. Let me know if I should keep it, slim it, or delete it.

• Did Alain deserve to keep his Kalos Championship title in spite of his role in Team Flare's plan? Defenders of Alain feel it's unfair to strip away Alain's title considering Team Flare's plan was only tangentially related to the league, Alain immediately turned on Lysandre upon learning Lysandre's full goals, and Alain had already demonstrated a mastery of Mega Evolution and battling. Other fans however point out that even if Alain was manipulated he still knowingly partook in criminal activity such as kidnapping Ash. These fans also argue against the notion Alain being able to use Mega Evolution is a point towards his battle prowess, noting for all the talk about Mega Evolution being difficult to master, Anime!Korrina is the only person in the entire franchise who struggled to use it. Those against Alain's title also cite that the Mega Ring that acted as the key to Alain's victory was a gift from Lysandre, making it impossible to separate Alain's battle prowess from his terrorist affiliation.

Edited by Mariofan99 on Feb 25th 2023 at 1:56:34 PM

Character tags aren't allowed on this wiki.

okay so I'll change it to "Kornnia's Anime incarnation is the only character in the entire franchise who struggled to use Mega Evolution" or do you think that whole bolded section should go

(x4) Any thoughts?

On YMMV.Ponyo On The Cliff By The Sea:

• Broken Base: Ponyo, while a good movie in its own right, is considered divisive by several Studio Ghibli fans for having one of the lightest stories in a Ghibli movie and a main character who is hit-or-miss with many fans. Some call it their favorite movie, others believe Ponyo to be one of the weakest good Studio Ghibli film, while others find it So Okay, It's Average. It doesn't help that Ponyo also suffers from Award Snub; Spirited Away won the Best Animated Feature award, while Howl's Moving Castle and The Wind Rises received nominations, but Ponyo was entirely ignored.

Honestly, and this is coming from someone who doesn't care for Ponyo personally, this doesn't feel like a valid Broken Base entry, as the so-called fractions all agree that it's good or at least, decent, to varying degrees, not exactly opposing fractions. I don't think, good versus weak good makes for a valid battle.

In general, really, Ponyo is a pretty well loved movie overall, with near-universally high scores across the board, and even those who criticize Ponyo or find it to be one of the weaker Ghibli films (which are more or less the minority) are not gonna say it’s bad or what not. It's not really divisive at all.

Maybe there's potential for a Hype Backlash entry to cover those who don't care for Ponyo, but I don't think Ponyo itself is divisive enough to qualify.

Edited by Tylerbear12 on Mar 4th 2023 at 7:03:40 AM

^ Agreed. The two factions aren't divisive enough.

Found these on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert:

• Broken Base:
  • The political humor and resurrection of the Colbert (the character) persona has divided much of the fans in 2016. Is it a timely smart take on current events or a tired rehash of Colbert Report?
  • In addition, the criticism of Colbert towards republicans and Donald Trump has also divided the fanbase. Some argue that it is throughly deserved given their actions, while others claim that it's biased because of the belief that Colbert never gives conservatives a chance and agree with and respect their sentiments, even if it is stupid and redundant.

The first one didn't last long enough to be a real issue, and the second one is just regular political disagreement.

I'm leaning on cutting both, for the reasons you stated.

What's the policy on Broken Base entries that are just "Politics are mentioned, audience members argued"? Because that seems like it would go without saying, since it would occur with almost every work that engages with politics.

YMMV.Cinema Sins has one entry that's basically "Trump was sinned, and that made some right-wingers sad."

• Donald Trump's cameo from Home Alone 2: Lost in New York got 1,000,000,000 sins (In comparison, the Ocean's Eleven scene where Danny Ocean is in a phone booth next to the Trump Plaza gets 10 sins). Some appreciated the Take That! aimed at the president, while others saw it as a political cheap shot and felt Jeremy was signaling that Trump supporters, or right-wingers in general, were not welcome in his fanbase

The base can be broken for any reason, even a stupid one. That said, I highly doubt this was more than a flash in the pan.

(x3) I agree that neither of those count, so I'd cut them both.

If it wasn't brief, then I feel it counts; I'm unfamiliar with the community, so I don't know.

I do feel it's poorly written though and focuses too much on the anti side.

Bumping this since the thread the thread is active again

Regarding the 6 month rule, when it applies to an arc/storyline in a show does it mean 6 months from when it started or 6 months from when it ended? I ask this as I have a potential entry for Pokémon Journeys: The Series regarding the Masters 8 arc, which began in July and ended in November

I think it's six months after the arc became controversial. If the first episode of the arc is divisive, then it can be six months after the start.

From YMMV.Mortal Kombat 9:

• Broken Base:
  • Chapter 15 in Story mode has only two sides to it: either it's a Wham Episode that left many fans in tears after seeing their favorite characters get killed by Sindel so easily and abruptly or it's a clumsy failed attempt at being a wham episode because of how sloppy the deaths were, and because of the obvious Diabolus ex Machina.
  • To a lesser extent, the blatant Fanservice in all the costumes, especially the female ones. Some players don't care or like the skimpy outfits, while others feel it's too much of a good thing or undermines some important characters (Sonya's ludicrously impractical outfit is probably the best example of this). Mileena's Flesh Pits costume unlocked by beating the Challenge Tower was another point of contention - not only did some feel it was taking things too far, but it's also a hugely underwhelming reward for such a mammoth task. Some felt it was pushed so far NetherRealm should have just made a "Nude Kombat" mode and been done with it. Responding to these complaints is likely why the Fanservice and Stripperific details were severely toned down for the next game.

In my experience, Chapter 15 is nigh-universally considered to be one of the worst writing decisions in the entire Mortal Kombat franchise. I've literally never seen a single person defend it.

The other example, about the skimpy costumes, also only gives a token "some people don't care or like them" at the start before going on for multiple sentences about why they're bad.

Edited by Zuxtron on Mar 22nd 2023 at 7:44:18 AM

Bumping this yet again because I still have no response.