Ensemble Dark Horse Cleanup

The guy on the plane is a two scene wonder, and while he may not be one of the most well known character on the show, for a character who only appears in two scenes, he's pretty well liked.

How is this for an entry? I'll add it to the YMMV if it's sufficient.

• Ensemble Dark Horse: The unidentified British passenger portrayed by Hugh Laurie is surprisingly popular despite only appearing in two scenes in The One With Ross's Wedding Pt. 2. The factors which constribute to the passenger's popularity are his delightfully sardonic portrayal by Laurie, coupled with the fact that the passenger calls Rachel out for her selfish behaviour, namely her plan to meddle in Ross and Emily's impending nupitals, a sentiment which resonates with modern audiences.

I also found examples for this trope I was not sure about, but I did not cut them.

• Ensemble Dark Horse:
  • Both Phoebe's love interests, Mike and David, are well liked, especially Mike, who became a semi-regular character towards the end of the show's run.
  • Jack Geller is popular too. His wife not so much...
  • Janice is this. Although, being hilarious and annoying at the same time, she's also a Base-Breaking Character.
  • Richard, for being one of the most decent and likable love interests. Like Janice though, he can fall into the Base-Breaking Character territory, since some people see him as The Scrappy.
  • Kathy was this, at least until the writers broke her and Chandler up. The cast actually liked Paget Brewster enough that they wanted her to stay.
  • Emily was actually very well liked before they decided to have her marry Ross in a hurry just for the sake of causing a conflict between Ross and Rachel. Fans actually wanted to see things work out between her and Ross. Then, of course, Emily made a complete turn around of character.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Sep 24th 2019 at 9:23:16 AM

Maybe ~War Jay 77 can help me with this.

You rang?

Hmm...Well, anyone considered a base-breaking character is definitely not in. I think the plane passenger counts for sure, and any other example needs a ton more context. I love Friends, but I don't know how the fans feel about every character.

The write up for plane guy looks great! Dunno about the others though, so I can't really help with that.

Gotcha. What about Pilot Pearl? Major character in the pilot (if I remember right), but that incarnation of her was only in the pilot, and is separate from canon Pearl.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Sep 24th 2019 at 9:08:22 AM

Huh? Oh, SU, right. Well...I'm not sure. I think it could count if fans consider "Pilot Pearl" a character in her own right, separate from normal Pearl.

Also, I sort of question whether real life examples should even be allowed of this trope. I feel like, at the very least, due to the polarizing nature of politics, political examples DEFINITELY shouldn't be allowed.

I mean, there are no real life examples allowed for The Scrappy. Why should they be allowed on this trope, especially when some of the figures listed are polarizing?

I agree.

EnsembleDarkhorse.Sonic The Hedgehog is way shorter than the previous time I've seen it. It looks like 90% of all Sonic characters were meant to be popular after all.

Since there are only like few examples (read: four), shall we just cut it and move it to EnsembleDarkhorse.Video Games?

I agree. My experience with the Friends fandom indicates he's extremely popular. She's on her way to tell Ross she's in love with him on the eve of him getting married to another woman. Her friends didn't want her to do this, Phoebe's entire (limited because of her pregnancy) storyline was about trying to stop Rachael from doing this, the audience is pretty much on the friends' side about this. And then Hugh Laurie essentially acts as an Audience Surrogate to tell Rachael just how wrong her decision is.

As a result, even though Hugh Laurie appears only in that scene (it's a scene that's split into two so is effectively two scenes) and is completely nameless, he is very popular. And he's also an example of a character who started off extremely popular for the above reasons, but who then gained an extra surge of popularity from House fans who only then realised who the actor in this scene was — as a result, he gained an 'early House says his thing!' popularity on top of the original support.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Oct 10th 2019 at 1:01:01 PM

Can Love to Hate overlap with Ensemble Dark Horse if the character's loathsomeness is the reason for their popularity?

Hugh Laurie's character isn't part of the ensemble, though, so he can't be an Ensemble Dark Horse. He's more of a One-Scene Wonder.

The Laconic description for this trope is "An unexpectedly popular minor character." By the letter of the laconic, he seems to qualify. And who says a One-Scene Wonder can't be an EDH based on the Laconic?

Then the laconic should really be fixed to account for that.

That might work. What is considered too major/minor for this trope?

Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 14th 2019 at 12:25:06 PM

Laconics are there for convenience, they do not override the full trope definition. Ensemble Dark Horse is defined as "a side character making up part of the ensemble" (emphasis mine) that becomes unexpectedly popular.

Edited by HighCrate on Nov 14th 2019 at 8:51:45 AM

I can get behind that. How about "A minor member of the ensemble becomes unexpectedly popular"?

Asking again. Can Love to Hate overlap with Ensemble Dark Horse if the character's loathsomeness is the reason for their popularity?

Also, I'm thinking of replacing the current One-Scene Wonder entry for plane guy with the following:

• One-Scene Wonder: The unidentified British passenger portrayed by Hugh Laurie in The One With Ross's Wedding Pt. 2 is surprisingly popular despite only appearing in two scenes. The factors which constribute to the passenger's popularity are his delightfully sardonic portrayal by Laurie, coupled with the fact that the passenger calls Rachel out for her selfish behaviour, namely her plan to meddle in Ross and Emily's impending nupitals, a sentiment which resonates with modern audiences.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Nov 17th 2019 at 6:54:07 AM

Should YMMV.Avengers Endgame really refer to Joe Russo's Grieving Man as an Ensemble Darkhorse? Everything I read about him called him a weak attempt at gay representation, if not a total failure.

The Sonic the Hedgehog page is confusing, I thought it was a franchise wide example.

Anyway, I think Dragon Ball needs some work. Mea culpa with some of these entries, but I want to work on fixing it. Thing is, there is a gray area on what's exactly a popular minor character in this, since the movie entries includes the main antagonists, and the original DB includes Yamcha who, while a main character in early arcs, has been Demoted to Extra for years.

Edited by Tomodachi on Nov 30th 2019 at 11:23:02 AM

Discussed something similar to this in the last page. Cut the DB movie villains. Yamcha, though... Did he get more popular as his relevance dwindled? He might have a case if so.

Someone put the unknown Aquamarine/Eyeball fusion on EnsembleDarkhorse.Steven Universe despite the fandom having no idea how relevant she's going to be. Permission to cut?

Edit: decided to cut her.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Nov 30th 2019 at 10:55:33 AM

I deleted a good chunk of them.

Edited by Tomodachi on Nov 30th 2019 at 3:06:00 AM

I think the example text makes a pretty strong case for Yamcha, actually; my only problem with it is some bad Example Indentation.

I deleted many entries in Dragon Ball. User Kn 83 told me that my deletions in the discussion are personal biases, and "alot of my picks showcase my personal biases rather than the actual views of most of the fandom."

While I may be biased, I cannot exactly say they aren't wrong. I deleted Bardock (and Trunks) who are main attractions in the expanded material, many videogame and movie main villains according to this discussion cleanup, and both fusions of Goku and Vegeta. I think I may be biassed with the last two.

While Vegetto may have counted as a darkhorse 20 years ago when he only appeared for like 2 chapters and then disappeared to never be seen again, I don't think he counts now, I have seen criticisms with people thinking they ruined him in Super. He is clearly the one I'm not sure.

Counting Gogeta as a minor character is blatantly false, he was the star of his own movie. Not to mention GT used him, and Broly didn't miss the opportunity to promote the living hell out of the guy. Calling him a darkhorse when he is clearly designed to be the main attraction is delusional. My own dislike of such a blatant cashgrab is not my excuse for excluding him.

Should I take out Tapion and Hatchyjack? Tapion only appeared in Movie 13, but he isn't a minor character, and neither is Hatchyjack for his OVA.

Is Hit a darkhorse? He was the main antagonist of the Universe 6 arc, got his mini-arc and was a focused character in the TOP. Not to mention he was one of the few Super characters in Fighterz. I think he is too major to count.

Edited by Tomodachi on Dec 12th 2019 at 5:21:25 AM

Does ED have a time limit like Broken Base and Base-Breaking Character?

I often see this trope used in Harem Genre or Dating Sim games to refer to the "most popular Love Interest option" or "characters who are not a Love Interest option, but whom many people wish are". This qualifies as a misuse right?