Page Restoration Petitions

why would we need Love Triangle The Same But More Specific?

I think whether we move any examples we have found over a matter for SE or TRS.

edited 28th May '12 3:45:17 PM by TheOneWhoTropes

Keeper of The Celestial Flame

^ We already have tropes that are Love Triangle But More Specific. For example, Matchmaker Crush, Two-Person Love Triangle and Betty and Veronica.

And it is a trope that shows up in such classic non-Porn works as Film/The Graduate and Friends. It's generally either Father/Son or Mother/Daughter and it's generally a sign of some really messed up family dynamics.

edited 28th May '12 3:51:30 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

The Graduate, Shima.

Gah, yeah, I was thinking of the song.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I've seen Father/Son show up as well, in quite mainstream webcomics (Flintlockes Guide To Azeroth) I probably didn't spell that right.

ETA: 12:00AM here, last post till morning about 10AM, since sunrise is at about 5AM.

edited 28th May '12 3:56:30 PM by TheOneWhoTropes

Keeper of The Celestial Flame

I've seen the Father/Son one in Law And Order. It's the same trope.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Parent Child Love Triangle?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Parental Love Triangle sounds better to me, though perhaps less clear.

So, is this an indication that we're scrapping the threesome page?

It is far less clear. The threesome is a rare variant mostly found in porn.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I suppose. Well, I won't push for the name.

Since we've moving it out of less porny waters should we perhaps take it to the TRS instead? It is starting to sound like a different matter than the one we're handling here.

The first work that comes to mind when I think of the Mother Daughter Threesome trope is the Ahnold movie End Of Days, which definitely isn't porn.

edited 28th May '12 4:37:20 PM by Meeble

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!

@1190. At least an explanation w0ould be nice, and he didn't even respond to my PM.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts

Does that mean if someone says a work is pedo-pandering, and it isn't, I can't say that lest I make TV Tropes look like it's full of pedophiles?

The child is father to the man —Oedipus

If people are outright lying about a work, or otherwise giving incorrect information, it is never wrong to correct them. I think that statement was mostly referring to people attempting to use some sort of Really 700 Years Old defense for the umpteenth time.

Bigotry will NEVER be welcome on TV Tropes.

After having listened to all the discussion here, I'm just a small fish in a large pond and have no pretensions otherwise.

However, until I'm told by a moderator (or especially The Fast One) that their decisions are final and it's a dead subject, end of debate, I stand behind my defense behind "Mother-Daughter Threesome" (which should be cleaned and regulated) and "Naughty Tentacles" (as a locked, exampleless stub with a cleaner name and no external links to avoid offending Google) just so we have something to define the term.

My reasons for defending both (and any other trope that sounds dodgy) are simple.

THEY. ARE. LEGITIMATE. TROPES.

Gorn is in many, many horror movies, and while it's often disgusting and offensive, it's a legitimate trope. Mind Rape is just as horrible as "Naughty Tentacles" (and may not be mutually exclusive), just in a different way, and both "Mother-Daughter Threesome" and especially "Naughty Tentacles" have made more than enough appearances SFW media, not to mention have been alluded, parodied, mentioned, or otherwise presented in some form or fashion, as have, as I mentioned in an earlier post, we haven't taken down Hentai or Bara, even though they refer to porn related topics.

Why, you ask?

Simple. They have shown up in SFW media in some form that was non offensive in context. One character from Genshiken is a fan of Bara, multiple media we profile have referenced characters being a fans of Hentai, and the word itself, removed from it's modern day context, originally meant "abnormal".

I repeat, they are legitimate tropes we should at least have a locked stub to describe them, because, as I mentioned in an earlier post and will do so again:

Tropes are the foundation of this website, and without recognized tropes to define and extrapolate on the writing devices of media, regardless of their use, it is both a betrayal of this website's aims to censor certain tropes as if they didn't exist when they have too much currency with the public to be denied, not to mention it is inserting personal morality into a subject upon which is objectively neutral in regards to the formation of a narrative (i.e. - anything used to make a story is a legitimate trope), and the site rules clearly state this site is not G rated, so, as long as we don't tread on Google's toes, I feel it would be intellectually honest to both the site and to the public at large who use this place as a writing resource (I know I do, as do many others whom we have acknowledged) to at least leave definitions of these terms.

Works pages may be sacrificed, because ultimately, they are examples of trope usage, and are ultimately expendable if need be.

Tropes are not. Strip them from TV Tropes, and the site loses all reason for being.

So, in conclusion, to be on topic, I am petitioning these pages be restored for the reasons outlined above.

edited 28th May '12 6:16:50 PM by Rpgingmaster

Well sorry, but I think Naughty Tentacles and Mother Daughter Threesome are not coming back. One of the bloody articles got this website in trouble because of it, and no cleaning, locking, or re-naming will change the fact that they are about Squicky issues.

Everything is expendible, tropes or otherwise. Deal with it.

edited 28th May '12 6:16:08 PM by KrazyKopter

"Pancakes. Oh, I blew it." - Joel Hodgson Nobody better lay a Butterfinger on my 3DS!

PLEASE think of how defending, in many many words, a Rape Trope

We have many Rape Tropes that were not cut.

born from anime and manga,

The national origin of the trope has zero relevance.

makes anyone who makes such an unqualified defense (and the rest of us) look to sane, normal people.

Naughty Tentencles does no more discredit to the website than Greedy Jew or Scary Black Man. We document tropes. These are tropes.

edited 28th May '12 6:34:47 PM by Catbert

@Rpgingmaster

Think you can make shorter posts? They will be easier to read and more likely to be read.

Exactly we change the name, get rid of the links, make it non-porn examples only and problem solved.

edited 28th May '12 6:28:18 PM by Shadis

It's not the trope itself. It was the outbound links on its article.

edited 28th May '12 6:29:27 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

With respect, sir, Squick is part of writing.

Again, just because something is gross and offensive is no reason to pretend it doesn't exist, and since this website covers the writing devices that form the basis of media as we know it, not covering these topics in some form, no matter how censored, is doing a disservice to works that use these tropes as legitimate story telling devices, or otherwise reference, allude, or parody them in some way.

Google was upset by the external linking. If we can find a solution to preclude that (and keep them as a locked, exampleless stub}, then I don't see why any problems would exist to prevent their existence.

I also see no reason to allow personal feelings to trump objective reality. This website is for the furtherance of writing knowledge in general, regardless of personal distaste.

edited 28th May '12 6:28:58 PM by Rpgingmaster

Yeah, external linking is more an issue of code, which is Fast Eddie's thing.

Which doesn't say much, because then you're relying on his skills, which have been called into question before.

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

speaking of the fast one has he said anything abut this yet?

Well said.

edited 28th May '12 6:57:35 PM by Shadis

The fact that he hasn't after being discussed for such an extended period in this thread suggest to me that Fast Eddie is still thinking about it and considering what the different options are, and that it's time for us to move on for awhile to other issues that can be acted upon.

Until Eddie is ready to make a decision on this issue we are just spinning our wheels.

edited 28th May '12 6:57:11 PM by Sackett

With most of the Rape Tropes with the exception of Black Comedy Rape (and with the racist Race Tropes such as Blackface and Greedy Jew, it is quite obvious that the trope is not something being creepily fetishized or laughed at (at least by anyone beyond troglodyte intelligence) because it's ZOMGFUNNY.

The only way I can think Naughty Tentacles coming back would be a good thing is if it's treated in the same way - either a clean, concise page saying "this is done in media" and locked to keep out the creepy examples, or if the page makes it obvious it's not somehow in support of tentacle rape and is again locked.

?