So. Personal opinions on the main wiki aren't allowed, be they gushing or bashing. Now, bashing gets tolerated even less than gushing, and that makes sense; it leads to more flamewars.
But that doesn't mean we have to live with all the gushing either. This thread can serve as a center for keeping it in check. One function might be to alert people to pages that are really heavy in gushing, to the point that it's not just a quick fix and will need some assistance.
Breaker of molds
Someone with more knowledge than me about Digimon Adventure 02: The Story We Never Told may want to look at the pages and crosswicks for it. From what I can tell, the initial editor(s) for the page really loved that fic, to the point where they wanted to consider it canon over the actual second season of the show, and this bled into the writing of examples.
The awesome page is one such example; most of the examples feel like they need more context, and what's with the meta-examples section?
Also, from the fan works section of Adaptational Villainy (emphasis mine):
This fanfic page and its subpages had a gushing problem in the past, and while I was able to pare some of it down back then, I may need some help to continue making it more neutral, especially since, as mentioned, I don't know the fanfic very well.
"Take me down to the retro city where the carts are clean and the sprites are pretty." -A Youtube user
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I removed the meta examples and tweaked the initial entry to make it sound more neutral
A large number of Kung Fu Kitty
's edits for Jojo Stardust Crusaders' YMMV and Ho Yay seem rather Squee-y and dedicated to gushing over how Bishōnen and cute Kakyoin is, complete with unnecessarily cruft-y asides.
A glance at some of their other edits seem to indicate similar problems, suggesting a pattern of Yaoi- and Kakyoin fangirling. Not to mention they take quite a few edits to get their additions right. I'm tempted to ask a mod to issue them a warning over good troper etiquette and to redirect them to a sounding board first before making any more.
Edited by AlleyOop on Nov 1st 2020 at 11:49:55 AM
she/her
Honestly, I think that needs an ATT report. They have consistent problems with broken formatting, and they added a zero-context example to Distressed Dude.
I was browsing Hope Spot and came across a lot of gushy moments under The LEGO Movie and to a lesser extent Frozen.
EDIT: Also under G4 MLP...
"Frozen has a meta example in the song Do You Want to Build a Snowman. Anna once again tries to connect with her sister after the deaths of their parents with the titular question and the meter of the song has room for Elsa to reply, but no such response comes.
- The movie has more hope spots than you can shake a stick at. Right as Anna is about to convince Elsa to come back to the castle, the moment where Elsa is stunned by Hans telling her she isn't a monster and you think she'll accept things, the moment before Hans' single sentence of soul-crushing..."
"The LEGO Movie has a crushing hope spot whereby after the destruction of Cloud Cuckooland, Emmet has figured out a great plan by using his knowledge to help the others infiltrate Lord Business' tower. Everything is going according to plan right up until the last second where Emmet is about to put the Piece of Resistance on the Kragle, whereby the alarm bells ring, the entire group is arrested and sent to the Think Tank.
- An even worse hope spot that is ultimately soul-crushing is the point where Vitruvius happens to be hanging around the Think Tank after his friends have all just been captured. After Lord Business sets his robots on him, he immediately destroys them swiftly afterwards. The moment doesn't last, however. Vitruvius turns to Emmet to say a few wise words, before being decapitated by a penny thrown by Lord Business. Just when you thought it could not get any worse, Vitruvius confesses he actually MADE UP the entire prophecy. The ensuing reactions by the group are heartbreaking, but the moment where Emmet is on the verge of crying and in a state of utter distress, his friends are being led away, and the camera cuts to Lord Business just gloating above him as he forces himself to look up at his twisted face of sadistic pleasure who responds with "Not so special now, huh?", will rip your heart to pieces. The swell in music that plays at the point of Vitruvius' death doesn't help to reflect both the hopelessness and helplessness of the situation. It's so soul-crushing, that even anticipating this will never fail to leave you in shock as you try to fathom what just happened.
- When GCBC has a meeting with Lord Business after he narrowly misses capturing the Special, Lord Business reveals his masterplan of gluing the universe together with the fated Kragle. GCBC is reassured it won't be used on him, to his relief. However, due to the significance of his failure at his job and Lord Business' infamous hatred of imperfection, it barely lasts a few seconds just as Lord Business snarls (his face sells it really well) "I'll use it on your PARENTS!". It's difficult to forget the horror convincingly plastered across GCBC's face, especially considering he's so shocked he can barely react.
- A spoiler heavy one- After Wyldstyle rallies the people to fight back against Lord Business' army, in the real world The Man Upstairs comes home and sees the creations his son Finn made, taking issue with them before reassembling them "properly". In the LEGO world, this is shown by the people being overwhelmed by Lord Business' forces."
- Happens in the Final Battle of the two part pilot of My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic. Twilight Sparkle is facing off against Nightmare Moon alone after having been dragged away from her friends. She manages to trick her way past Nightmare Moon to the Elements Of Harmony and tries to activate them, and seemingly manages to do so. Only for their power to fizzle out and Nightmare Moon to shatter them to pieces right in front of her. The truly devastated look on Twilight's face when this happens only serves to make the Hope Spot being crushed even more of a Tear Jerker. It doesn't last that long, but still!
- There's another one in "A Canterlot Wedding, Part 1". It looks like Twilight and Cadence are going to make up when Cadence pats her on the head, But then "Cadence" pulls out a Slasher Smile and drops Twilight Sparkle into the caverns below Canterlot.
- Don't forget "The Return of Harmony pt. 2" Twilight is finally able to locate the Elements of Harmony. Unfortunately, with the rest of her friends corrupted, it has absolutely no effect, and in turn this causes her to lose all hope and become corrupted as well.
- And again in "The Crystal Empire, Part 2", where Twilight runs through a doorway that she thinks leads to the crystal heart and instead finds herself in a world where she has failed her test and is being sent away by Princess Celestia.
- Both parts of "The Beginning of the End" have one in their climax.
- In part one, the Mane Six have defeated Sombra and liberated the Crystal Empire once again. They return the Elements to the Tree of Harmony and start making plans to celebrate. Sombra turns out to have faked his defeat and followed Twilight to find the source of her powers. He then obliterates the Tree of Harmony, destroying the Elements for good.
- In part two, Twilight succeeds in convincing Discord to defeat Sombra for her, which he starts to do by turning all of Sombra's magic blasts into balloons and butterflies. But then Sombra is clued in to the fact that Discord likes Fluttershy the best, and she's conveniently wide open, forcing Discord to take a blast of dark magic for her. This in turn, becomes a Hope Spot for Sombra. With Discord downed, he's convinced that he's the strongest being in Equestria, and grabs the Villain Ball long enough for Twilight to realize she no longer needs the Elements of Harmony to summon her rainbow friendship lasers. Sombra doesn't last long after that.
Edited by lalalei2001 on Nov 20th 2020 at 11:11:47 AM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
EDIT: disregard. The page I was going to bring here already got edited after an ATT query; I just didn't see if it had been changed.
Edited by 8BrickMario on Nov 20th 2020 at 11:24:26 AM
Angry babby
I don't think that's gushing so much as it is just standard Word Cruft. Still, by all means, cut it down.
Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 20th 2020 at 5:15:53 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
A discussion in another thread led me to look at the Asperger Syndrome page, which seems to have issues with Natter and some comments that could be regarded as overly gushy. Notably, the portions that talk about people with Asperger's Syndrome having a strong conscience as if it's an innate trait as opposed to a tendency borne of other ethics-neutral factors.
Angry babby
Why is the page for Asperger's so much longer than Autism? Especially when many of the traits listed there are still common in autistic people who don't fit the Asperger's diagnosis. Same with the myth debunking. Given the issues with functioning labels in our community, it just kind of rubs me the wrong way.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
I don't like the way the Asperger's page is written. Useful Notes are supposed to be about things that appear a lot in fiction, right? Typically they just explain what something is, where it appears in fiction, and that's it. So why is half the page a "debunking myths" page? That doesn't seem like something that corresponds well to what TV Tropes is meant for, i.e. a site that catalogs tropes.
(Not trying to be offensive to anyone either, I have Asperger's myself. Just saying that I don't think it really fits TV Tropes.)
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Useful Notes are what they sound like: informative pages that discuss various matters often pertaining to real life in a descriptive and informative, but also more casual than Wikipedia. Discussing matters as they pertain to fiction is already what we do in the main, non-Useful Notes trope pages.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Ah, OK then. So, what should be done about the page?
I agree with Mighty Mewtron that the two pages could probably be combined in some fashion and the Conversation in the Main Page-type entries dealt with. Since I'm not on the autism spectrum I'll give those who are priority, although I can try to help out in my own way.
I did a general cleaning of Fusion Fic yesterday, and there was a surprising amount of gush about fics that apparently combined the works super well, or something. Think I got most of it.
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Angry babby
I think I'll bring up combining the Asperger's and Autism pages elsewhere. Where would be a good place to put this? ATT? Trope Talk?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Short Term Projects, perhaps.
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
Autism and Aspergers should be merged.
I'm saying this as someone who has Aspergers.
However, the preferred term for both would be Autism Spectrum Disorders.
Edited by Nen_desharu on Nov 21st 2020 at 10:31:05 AM
Kirby is awesome.
Redmess
Yeah, we should probably update those pages.
Optimism is a duty.
Maintenance?
I, too, have autism, and note that Asperger's is typically grouped with other ASDs.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
I know there's a growing fringe in the autistic community that don't support the label of "Asperger's syndrome" due to being named after Hans Asperger, who was later discovered to have had... a bit of history with the Nazi regime. The fact the article doesn't mention that fact should probably be corrected should these pages be merged.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Huh. The more you know. I'm an Aspie who didn't know that. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Also it excludes those diagnosed with PDD-NOS, such as me.
Welcome, traveller, welcome to Omsk
Yes, merge the two. Near as I can tell, "Asperger's syndrome" isn't used in the medical community any more (or is being phased out, at the very least), due to just being a part of the autism spectrum.
It does not matter who I am. What matters is, who will you become? - motto of Omsk Bird
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Anyway, this discussion is super off topic. We should make a new page for the merge discussion.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
~Plasma Power: For the YMMV.Spider Man Into The Spider Verse entry (for Author's Saving Throw) you cited, I'd cut the first entry because it is complaining about two other works without explaining the flaws. The second through fourth sub-bullets are just plain misuse. I don't think the main page has serious gushing problems, but double-check to be sure. The Alternate Universe entry does have apparent misuse in its sub-bullets, which are People Sit on Chairs or fit under other tropes.
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