Rukia's example:
- Meaningful Name: Word of God state her name origin come from a Latin word "Lucia" means "Light". He also state that Rukia is a "ray of light" for Ichigo. Ironically, Rukia didn't ended up with Ichigo Kurosaki in epilogue even her meaning name is connected to ichigo and her role as main-heroine of Bleach.
I know this has been a popular view point in the fandom for years, but I don't recall anyone ever being able to confirm the interview where Kubo unambiguously confirmed this was definitely why Rukia's name was chosen. Is there a source anyone knows of?
If there is a way to confirm the Word of God claim, the entry will need to be rewritten to fix the grammar issues and the shipping part of the entry will need to be removed entirely as it's irrelevant to the trope.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
The assumption that Yhwach outright took away Ichigo's nature as a Hollow and a Quincy; why exactly is this assumption being treated as fact? I can understand how people could jump to this conclusion at first glance, but that the theory is being regarded as a cold, hard fact irks me. There's absolutely no real evidence to support it. In fact, there's more evidence against it than for it.
The entire point of Hollowfication is for a spirit to have NO real distinction between Shinigami and Hollow. Ichigo is as much a Hollow as he is a Shinigami, end of story. There has NEVER been any instance of a Hollowfied Shinigami having their Hollowness taken away. The sequel light novel currently being released disproves the notion that his Hollow nature was somehow separated from his Shinigami nature, anyway (and before you even bring up authors, the novel is being co-authored by Kubo).
Of the Quincy who were drained by Yhwach and lived to tell the tale, NONE of them actually stopped being Quincy. Even Jugram, who received a direct Auswahlen to the face, still retained his Schrift; meaning, his Quincy power drawing out and manifesting his innate spiritual ability. So, why would Ichigo be any different?
The more likely scenario is that Yhwach drained a mountain-load of Reiryoku from Ichigo's soul. Reiryoku that he only partially recovered on the way back from Wahrwelt, which would easily explain the lack of his Full Hollow release or his Blut.
Edited by DenisK21
Troper
RP Gfan 7: I keep trying to make an edit to Komamura's section but it doesn't show up. I make an edit to Elfen Lied and it's fine. I think there's something wrong with the page.
Edited by RPGfan7 Tropes are the foundation of good entertainment. Hide / Show Replies
I am also having trouble trying to put a picture of Gin next to his character description. The real odd thing is I managed to get a picture in of Grimmjow next to his description just fine for some reason.
Somethin wonky goin on here. I tried to make numerous edits before but it never sticks.
This is still a signature.
That's what happens when the page gets too many links. Either you need a new page, or there needs to be some cleanup, especially to remove some... minor characters.
the entire article has vanished!!!
Tropes are the foundation of good entertainment.
OK, guys, the editing problems have started again. The page is way too large, we need to clean it up. Do we really need to list every single character? Especially filler characters?
Edited by Barano
It's probably wiser to just condense Zanpakuto and wielders together, on top of cutting the extremely minor ones. Though that in itself would be a temporary fix.
I'm with Barano. I suggest that we remove all the filler characters or minor characters that are unimportant to the plot.
How about a second Character page? (don't know if it would work, but Filler Characters/Bleach sounds useful to me)
Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
Or maybe several extra pages if that can be done, one for main characters, one for filler characters, one for good (and neutral) people, and one for villains. As for who should be included- I say everyone, or else the bickering over what constitutes 'minor' will never ever cease.
I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.
Or maybe several extra pages if that can be done, one for main characters, one for filler characters, one for good (and neutral) people, and one for villains. As for who should be included- I say everyone, or else the bickering over what constitutes 'minor' will never ever cease.
I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.
But why do we need to list the filler and movie characters? It's not like they matter at all, outside of their movie/filler arc. I say cut Movie Characters, The Bount, Zanpakuto Spirits and Anime-Only Characters.
Edited by Barano
The problem is that some of those characters were developed with input from the Mangaka (the Zanpakuto Spirits), others had a lasting impact on the anime (the mod souls from the Bount arc), and some are just good characters/relatively good filler (the Bount themselves). Any of the above would be reason enough for a character to get onto most character sheets, but Bleach just has too many characters. (I do sort of agree with getting rid of the movie characters, but I have not seen them)
Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
...Because they DO matter, inside of their movie/filler arc. And those movies and filler arcs are part of Bleach. We could split off articles for each of the movies and filler arc, then attach character pages to those articles. And characters introduced in a filler arc might be listed on it's page, even if they migrate to the series proper. But outright eliminating them merely in the name of is-this-really-important-ism is very That Other Wiki. And I don't like working on that wiki for that very reason (well, and the overbureaucratization).
Edited by Westrim I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.
...Because they DO matter, inside of their movie/filler arc. And those movies and filler arcs are part of Bleach. We could split off articles for each of the movies and filler arc, then attach character pages to those articles. And characters introduced in a filler arc might be listed on it's page, even if they migrate to the series proper. But outright eliminating them merely in the name of is-this-really-important-ism is very That Other Wiki. And I don't like working on that wiki for that very reason (well, and the overbureaucratization).
Edited by Westrim I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.
Well, I think it just increases the clutter, but if you want to keep them, go ahead - but then move them to a separate "Anime only characters" page (that should cover everything from fillers to movies).
Edited by Barano
Westrim and Barano are right. If it takes more than one character sheet to list all the Bleach characters, then so be it.
"But... nobody told me I needed a signature!"
The problem is how? Just splitting core canon and everyone else is a temporary fix. Villains alone trumps all those that fall under that mantle practically effortlessly, and that doesn't even get into ANY of the shinigami. To say nothing of when Kubo gets writers block again and adds a new bunch to to the canon cast. This isn't a problem that will just go away if we split core canon and everything else.
The first "quick" fix would be to get a "Bleach movies" page up and move things over there first (nothing complex about THAT one). Next would be doing the same with anime/filler (not that hard, but time consuming). If that does not work, we would have to get complex and separate the characters by "arc first seen" (to avoid an "all villains" page from getting too large). If that does not work... we will burncross that bridge when we get to it
Ah, that's a clever approach, separating the movies for their own pages. Not quite sure if that would work for Anime fillers and the like though.
Do the the movies need to have their own pages, or is just one page good enough for them all? (was thinking Bleach Movies, but giving them each their own page would work. Have not seen them, so I don't know how many tropes are specifically related to them)
Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
I think one page for movie characters will be enough for now.. Hopefully that will free up enough space to make more edits.
Your mind is a software. Program it. Your body is a shell. Change it. Death is a disease. Cure it. Extinction is approaching. Fight it.
Well there is a start on the page at least. As I said above, I have not seen the movies, so other then adding a link to a character page I can't do anything else. Let the Wiki Magic begin.
Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie!
But why don't we just move all anime original characters to a different page, or create a new subpage for TV series only people? (I would do it myself if I knew how to). Seeing how long the original page held out, one page should be enough for all anime original characters.
I don't think we should overcomplicate matters with different subpages for villains and heroes and so on. Again: the original page has held out for a very long time so it's not like the new subpages would fill up very soon. They'll probably get too large eventually, but we should worry about that when it happens.
Edited by Barano
I keep trying to put down Character Alignment for all the characters for easy reference, and it keeps disappearing?!?!?!?!
Apparently our temporary fix only lasted that long. Well that or you're trying to put too much in, which given it's alignments for characters I suppose is likely to be the case.
Yeah, we need to split off the filler characters. Maybe I'll try it tonight.
I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.
Yeah, we need to split off the filler characters. Maybe I'll try it tonight.
I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.
Hum... The wiki policy about Character Alignment seems to use only when it's relevant, i.e. for works using it, or a similar frame to divide up characters.
Sorry for the double post, but it happened again: the page no more allows any change. I dunno when it started.
I think it's best if we make a separate page for the anime-only characters. Time-consuming, yeah, but worth it if it fixes the problem.
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Eh, put my post in the wrong place.
Edited by 70.33.253.43 If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Wrong place.
Edited by 2.100.126.119 If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Since the page header mentions it has untagged spoilers, does that mean all spoiler tags should be removed?
Initially removed because they were Zero Context Examples and overtroping (relevant tropes related to the subject were already on the page). They've been readded without an edit reason and are still Zero Context Examples, so I've brought them to the discussion page.
Rukia:
- Tomboy: Kubo considers her to be one due to her brash "one-of-the-guys" personality
- Tomboy with a Girly Streak: She always wears dresses and acts girly around her schoolmates in the human world.
Orihime:
- Girly Girl: Her bubbly, sweet, cheerful personality
Issue: Rukia and Orihime already have the Tomboy and Girly Girl entry under both their sections. It's a subversion because Rukia initially seems to be a tomboy but is a girly girl and Orihime looks like a girl girl but has some very tomboy interests. I can see how Tomboy with a Girly Streak can be added to help clarify the subversion in the other trope, and Orihime already has the Girly Girl with a Tomboy Streak in her entry, but it needs context.
These three tropes cover everything. There's no need for separate Tomboy or Girly Girl tropes. That's just overtroping. I'm suggesting the following rewrite of the three relevant tropes:
Rukia:
- Tomboy with a Girly Streak: Rukia was raised in one of the most violent regions of Soul Society. She is quick-tempered, physically violent and shouts a lot. However, she's into cartoon artwork and cute and fluffy animals (especially bunnies), favours wearing dresses when given the choice, and loves romance stories. Renji states on one occasion that she has an inner grace that shines through even her roughest behaviour.
- Tomboy and Girly Girl: Rukia and Orihime have had a close friendship ever since Rukia first empowered Ichigo. The tomboy appears to be Rukia, with her rough-tempered, physically violent personality and soldier lifestyle. The girly girl appears to be Orihime, with her gentle, protective and peaceful personality and aversion to violence. However, when given the choice, Rukia favours loose dresses, reading romance novels and adores cartoon artwork and bunnies while Orihime is quietly a black-belt martial artist who is into sci-fi and robots, and shares her boys' comics with her male friends.
Orihime:
- Girly Girl with a Tomboy Streak: Orihime is a well-mannered girl who usually wears flowing skirts and wears her hair long in memory of her brother. She nearly always retains her friendly, bubbly spirit and weird sense of humour, and prefers people to get along. Her abilities are personality based, focussed on protecting and healing rather than physical violence. However, she's interested in sci-fi and robots, she reads boys' comics (and lends them out to boys'), and she is a black-belt martial artist (the anime changes this to yellow-belt).
- Tomboy and Girly Girl: Rukia and Orihime have had a close friendship ever since Rukia first empowered Ichigo. The tomboy appears to be Rukia, with her rough-tempered, physically violent personality and soldier lifestyle. The girly girl appears to be Orihime, with her gentle, protective and peaceful personality and aversion to violence. However, when given the choice, Rukia favours loose dresses, reading romance novels and adores cartoon artwork and bunnies while Orihime is quietly a black-belt martial artist who is into sci-fi and robots, and shares her boys' comics with her male friends.
Thanks to an edit by another troper below, I've only just noticed that Rukia and Dark Rukia are split between this page and the Anime page.
While I appreciate that Dark Rukia is an anime-only creation, that only appears in part of the film, I'm wondering if it's a good idea to have Rukia split between two pages. It makes troping her confusing. For example, I've just removed the Does Not Like Shoes trope from this page because it's listed under Dark Rukia, but I'm not sure I should have done that because any troper who reads this page but not the Anime page might see relevant tropes missing, and what's the point of having them listed twice on two different pages?
What do people think? Should we keep Dark Rukia's entry separate, or merge the two together under this page?
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading. Hide / Show Replies
Something we could do that I've seen done with characters who are split between good and evil incarnations on separate pages is mention that in the 3rd movie Rukia is hollowfied into a form called Dark Rukia, which has been featured in a few spinoffs.
Or we could try merging them.
Ichigo's entry:
- Talking to Themself: When he Hollowfies for the second time, fighting Byakuya, he bickers with his Inner Hollow until he rips the mask off and regains control of his body. During subsequent Hollowfications he blacks out, but when he Hollowfies fighting the Old Man and Muramasa in the anime, he screams that he won't let the Inner Hollow have his body and rips the mask to regain control.
The example feels like a Square Peg Round Trope. The only way this trope could apply to Ichigo is if it applies to all Shinigami for the same reason. At which point, we may as well list it on the T-page as an example that applies to multiple characters in the work and give a couple of examples of the characters we've seen the inner spirits for (including Ichigo, Renji and Hitsugaya).
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading. Hide / Show Replies
For the same reason? Well, none of the other Zanpakuto spirits have tried to usurp control of their wielder's body, whether to help them or otherwise - unless the Visoreds' inner Hollows are also their Zanpakuto spirits, which is another topic altogether. Going by the description of the trope, I felt that it embodied the scenes where Ichigo and his Inner Hollow argue with each other. Perhaps there's another trope that fits better, though.
Edited by Arawn999
Ichigo's section:
- Kill the God: A completely accidental example. When Ichigo tries to save the Soul King from Yhwach, the moment he touches the latter's sword his Quincy powers resonate with Yhwach's reiatsu and force him to cut the Soul King in half, killing him.
—-
The issue is whether or not the Soul King classifies as a god. The edit reason given for putting the example back into Ichigo's section is that chapter 615 confirms it.
Based on two fan translations and no official translation, one doesn't tell us anything new, so doesn't confirm anything. The second states the Soul King was created by Soul Society, suggesting he's not a god at all and that Ichigo may instead have Accidentally Broke the MacGuffin.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading. Hide / Show Replies
Deity of Human Origin does exist as a trope. "God" is a very flexible term.
And we don't know if any definition of 'god' applies to the Soul King - even the characters in-universe haven't agreed on the subject. That one translation's description doesn't fit the Deity of Human Origin trope, more a MacGuffin really. With more information? Perhaps it will. Doesn't sound like it so far, though.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Considering the Soul King is a Cosmic Keystone that his death is possibly going to destroy the universe, and his role is regulating the flow of souls to and from the afterlife, I'd say he qualifies for the trope even if someone doesn't explicitly use the word "god" to describe him. He fulfills one of the classic roles of a god, his death has straight up cosmic consequences, and he's a mystical pillar of the universe. Even if no one says he, he looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smites infidels like a duck.
... that said, I don't like the writeup because it makes it sound like "oops, accidentally killed him" and not "Yhwach basically controlled Ichigo's body to do it."
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
His death won't destroy the universe. It seems that he is the lynchpin of artificial barriers that have been created to keep the worlds in the separated format that we're familiar with. Getting rid of him gets rid of these barriers. We still don't really know what that means, but we do know it won't destroy the universe, just change it back to whatever it was before the Soul King was created.
We do at least now have confirmation that the Shinigami were the ones who created the Soul King.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
You Give Me Fever
Inoue's the only one with a noticeably different appearance between time skip.
Edited by IndirectActiveTransport That's why he wants you to have the money. Not so you can buy 14 Cadillacs but so you can help build up the wastes Hide / Show Replies
Correction: Ichigo's taller and his Shihakushō has armour on it, Rukia got a haircut and was promoted to Lieutenant, Chad grew a stubbly beard and changed his hairstyle, and Uryū changed his hairstyle.
Edited by Arawn999
Removed example from Rukia's section to here for discussion:
- Person of Mass Destruction: Rukia's zanpakutou lets her to create either a column of ice that freezes everything above it (to nigh-infinite height) or a tidal wave that has the same effect. Even further, her sword's true power lets her lower the temperature of the sword and whatever it touches to absolute zero temperatures.
I think King Zeal was right to remove it in the first place and shouldn't have readded it. All the captains and lieutenants are listed as being a collective example of this trope. Even now, her power is still only touch-based, which makes her power very limited in area of effect. When looking at her powers as a whole, she still doesn't stand out from the crowd in terms of the destructive extent of her powers - not based on everything we've seen to date anyway. For example, her earthquake didn't level the city or even the buildings in the immediate vicinity, and even now her destructive reach isn't on the scale as even pre-time skip captains.
Edited by 2.100.126.119 If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading. Hide / Show Replies
I only readded it because I thought about the Fridge Logic ramifications of her abilities. I won't fight to have it included, but allow me to explain my thought process.
While her "Absolute Zero" ability is only touch-based, her other abilities are all Area of Effect. Specifically, First Dance is a column of ice that goes to a nigh-infinite height, and Second Dance is a tidal wave of ice that reached high enough to freeze a Hollow dozens of meters high. While she has never used these powers in a destructive fashion, it didn't seem far-fetched to me that she was in the ballpark for it.
As I said, I don't care enough to fight for readmission, so take that as you will.
To avoid an edit war, moving these here:
- Person of Mass Destruction: Chapter 546 reveals that Kyoraku is concerned Ichigo will turn into this after finishing his training with Squad Zero because of how powerful he will become. That is why he is informing his friends and family of this event].
- Walking Wasteland: Discussed Trope. The Gotei, being afraid this might happen if Ichigo grew too powerful, warned Ichigo's Muggle friends that if comes to pass, Ichigo can never be allowed in the human world again, lest he destroy it.
Okay, it's possible that even ignoring what we know about how reiatsu works in Bleach, Walking Wasteland may not apply. But, we've seen the effect in action with Aizen, who was so strong that ordinary people died just from his presence. The idea that high spiritual pressure can be fatal to weaker beings is repeated through the story. Still, it's possible WW may not apply because "destroy the living world" could mean anything up to an Earth-Shattering Kaboom.
However, with that in mind, I can't find ANY reason for Person of Mass Destruction to not be included. If someone's power is so great that it could destroy (or even cause severe damage to) an entire world, that is the trope, discussed or not. So what's the problem?
Hide / Show Replies
Hi, sorry, I didn't realise this was here.
At the moment, all that's been said is that there may be an effect on the World of the Living that is unwanted. In the English at least, most translations neutrally talk about an effect of some kind with only one mentioning an "adverse effect". None mention the effect is related to death and/or destruction.
Early in the manga, Ichigo's reiatsu affecting human souls, but none died. Captains also wear a power limiter because their full reiatsu might have undesirable effects on human souls, but that's not necessarily death/destruction. Ichigo may be these tropes but without more information all we know is that Kyouraku is worried about something that must not happen - that's so vague it could be anything from giving everyone in the world magical power to destroying everything in sight to something else entirely.
Edited by 70.33.253.43 If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
- Happens again in the final arc. So he was recruited into the Wandenreich, given the title of Stern Ritter "A" AND been made Yhwach's heir to the throne? All a really fancy way of saying that a noose was tied around his neck to make sure that he can't and won't do anything to compromise Yhwach's war against the Soul Society. Not to mention, neatly doubles as a bargaining chip against Ichigo's heroic tendencies.
Moved the above here. Nobody disagrees that Haschwalth said it. All he's done, however, is report Yhwach's action and state the obvious conclusion as to the reason why Yhwach took that action. At this stage of the manga, we obviously have no idea how successful the plan is it's only just been mentioned. It hasn't even had time to unfold yet.
All we know is that Yhwach is trying to make Uryuu a Distressed Dude. We don't know if he actually is.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
P.H.D. in runecasting
About the Mana Meter and Unskilled But Strong sections, it really needs to be specified that his Bankai coat is what gauges his reiatsu, not his Shihakusho as a whole or his Shihakusho while in Shikai.
Unohana assumed that Ichigo was including his entire outfit, but if you read the panels, Ichigo clearly states "Only the right sleeve's left, right?" while gesturing to the sleeve. He never referred to or gestured to the rest of his uniform. Furthermore, Ichigo never stated his uniform is a Mana Meter while in Shikai state. Plus his kosode is the only part of his outfit that changes when in Bankai. It stands to reason that his kosode/longcoat would be the only part of his outfit that serves as a gauge. He literally only had about a fourth of his coat left (a sleeve and a few scraps of cloth), meaning he has captain class reserves at roughly 1/4 of his power, more or less.
Even if Unohana had the monologue, I'd imagine Ichigo understands the more intricate details on how his Bankai works better than an onlooking captain who's only seen his Bankai maybe once before, if at all, considering he (at the time) had been in that state for several weeks straight.
Edited by 216.99.32.44 I name You...
P.H.D. in runecasting
About the Mana Meter section, it really needs to be specified that his Bankai coat is what gauges his reiatsu, not his shihakusho as a whole.
Unohana assumed that Ichigo was including his entire outfit, but if you read the panels, Ichigo clearly says "Only the right sleeve's left, right?" while gesturing to the sleeve. He never referred to or gestured to the rest of his uniform. Furthermore, Ichigo never stated his uniform is a Mana Meter while in Shikai state, and his kosode is the only part of his outfit that changes when in Bankai. It stands to reason that his kosode/longcoat would be the only part of his outfit that serves as a gauge. He only had about a fourth of his coat left (a sleeve and a few scraps of cloth), meaning he has captain class reserves at roughly 1/4 of his power, more or less.
Even if Unohana had the monologue, I'd imagine Ichigo understands the more intricate details on how his Bankai works better than an onlooking captain who's only seen his Bankai maybe once, if at all, considering he (at the time) had been in that state for several days/weeks straight.
I name You...
P.H.D. in runecasting
About the Mana Meter section, it really needs to be specified that his Bankai coat is what gauges his reiatsu, not his shihakusho as a whole.
Unohana assumed that Ichigo was including his entire outfit, but if you read the panels, Ichigo clearly says "Only the right sleeve's left, right?" while gesturing to the sleeve. He never referred to or gestured to the rest of his uniform. Furthermore, Ichigo never stated his uniform is a Mana Meter while in Shikai state, and his kosode is the only part of his outfit that changes when in Bankai. It stands to reason that his kosode/longcoat would be the only part of his outfit that serves as a gauge. He only had about a fourth of his coat left (a sleeve and a few scraps of cloth), meaning he has captain class reserves at roughly 1/4 of his power, more or less.
Even if Unohana had the monologue, I'd imagine Ichigo understands the more intricate details on how his Bankai works better than an onlooking captain who's only seen his Bankai maybe once, if at all, considering he (at the time) had been in that state for several days/weeks straight.
I name You...
X-14: Killer Cheese
- Ninja Pirate Robot Zombie: Eventually, he was presented as a combination of human, soul reaper, hollow, and fullbring species, at least in terms of capability and identity. The latest (as in, final) arc also reveals his quincy powers. This is, however, ultimately subverted. Ichigo seems to be most clearly a fullbringer, his mother having been attacked by a hollow before his birth. He either inherited, or the nature of his fullbring to absorb powerful influences gave him potential quincy powers and it later replicated his soul reaper powers. However, the initial attack gave him the soul of Juha Bach, which is what gave him his (technically fake) zanpakuto. The vizard abilities seem to have been repressed, and they were also said to have been unusual in the first place. Interestingly enough, this means that Ichigo doesn't belong to any of the races he represents except possibly the fullbringers. Phew.
This is my latest entry! Please suggest ways to make it more concise and point out if it is wrong!
Edited by 216.99.32.42
X-14: Killer Cheese
- Boring, but Practical: His Bankai and zanpakuto in general. The Bankai doesn't give him an expansion of power like most usually do, but instead compresses it, meaning it can be used a lot longer. It also doesn't come with any fancy tricks, merely increasing physical attributes and turning his Sword Beam black. Finally, it compensates for Ichigo's major weakness of giving off too much Reiatsu by filtering it more efficiently. In short, it turns him into the ultimate Lightning Bruiser.
I've removed the above example from the page for the following reason:
Ichigo has several entries (the same goes for Kenpachi who has the same issue) in the 'X But Practical' range. He's listed as an example of Boring, but Practical and Awesome Yet Practical. So is Kenpachi.
Surely it's not possible to be both tropes at the same time? The same examples are used for both tropes, to make matters worse. Which trope (if any) should they be listed under?
Edited by 70.33.253.45 If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading. Hide / Show Replies
I fail to see how it's awesome. It makes him fast and gives him a sword beam. Awesome means flashy, powerful and impressive.
I don't mind which it is; I was thinking that if people agree that it should be Boring, but Practical, I'll pop over to the Awesome Yet Practical page and delete them from that page (or vice versa if people agree, but I'm inclined to agree they should both be Boring, but Practical). At the very least, Ichigo and Kenpachi shouldn't be listed under both tropes.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Definitely Boring, but Practical. It's about as generic as a shonen upgrade can possibly get.
EDIT: Popped over to the the Awesome But Practical page... those are terrible examples. There are so many Awesome But Practical examples in Bleach (most Bankai and the more exotic Shikais, and a lot of Quincy abilities)... why are 2/3 of the Bleach examples "being a Lightning Bruiser." Hell, half the reason Kenpachi fights without form is because he finds using form to be Boring, but Practical... the worst thing in the world for a wild Blood Knight.
Edited by 216.99.32.44 Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Awesome But Practical page describes it as NOT having cool stuff and being simple but overcharged. Whoever wrote that is in need of a reality check. Or a fiction check. And a kick to the head. Whatever.
edit: Because that is the opposite of the trope and he interpreted wrong.
Edited by 216.99.32.43
Before it turns into an edit war as threatened, it would be wise to move the debate of whether Does Not Like Shoes applies to Rukia. I think to settle the matter we need some screenshots of the scenes in question as it has been claimed that the shoeless scenes are either A. not actually shoeless or B. in situations where anyone in that culture would go without shoes.
Hide / Show Replies
Okay, some instances I can think of off the top of my head: 1-Early in the series, there were two instances where she runs out shoeless to help Ichigo with Hollows. The first was with Orihime's brother, the second...I don't remember, but I do recall her jumping out the window in a sundress. Both instances, she had access to footwear but didn't bother. 2-After Aizen got exposed, and she went to apologize to Kuukaku, she was wearing a very simple yukata and was barefoot. Both in the anime and manga, she not wearing sandals. 3-The ENTIRETY of the third movie, not just Dark Rukia. In fact, she's wearing the exact same yukata as the one she wore when she visited Kuukaku.
Like I said when I put up the trope, she does it "occassionally" - she's not like Inuyasha. More like...Antimony from Gunnerkrigg Court. Sometimes she feels like it, most of the time she doesn't.
Hey, I'm gonna make a short, albeit convincing argumentative addition to this discussion, then add the trope back regardless of who whines about what. >:3 I'll do it myself before some stupid ass edit war starts.
Tektek is right - according to his sources. But outside the movie, the images aren't the world's clearest. Basically, the argument is...it's from the anime only, and hence doesn't apply. Well, to this, I say bullshit. :3 Every godamn character page has a *dozen* references that were made in the anime only (Seaweed ambassador much?). So, basically...the argument that it's from the anime only is pretty moot. If the others are valid, I see no reason why this one isn't. Hence, I'm adding it back in. If you want it removed...I'll wait til the other hundred or so anime/movie-related tropes are gone entirely. :) You gotta have standards and consistency people.
That said, I'll take Tek's argument and boil it down to a single word: Occasionally. Hence, that's all the trope needs.
I don't really care about this matter, but that attitude is very likely to get you an editing suspension so you should probably watch it. I'd wait until Wyldchyld or someone else who wants to say it doesn't apply shows up.
Why are we fighting about this? The evidence is there. This is nonsense.
@John Casey 21: I appreciate the support, but theres no need to be rude. I saw a lot of your major contributions to the site, so it'd be a shame if you got kicked out over something stupid.
@Asha: Wait for somebody who's gonna disagree from the start? What about people who DO agree? Did they not get invited to the party or something? Seriously. That sort of attitude is worse than even the nazis on the Bleach wiki. Leave it alone. Until counter evidence is provided, Ill just keep editing it in. It's a fact, so the only people warring are the ones removing it.
Fine, but you're just going to have to deal with him tomorrow.
Edited by Arha
>tektek
"1-Early in the series, there were two instances where she runs out shoeless to help Ichigo with Hollows. The first was with Orihime's brother, the second...I don't remember, but I do recall her jumping out the window in a sundress."
I don't remember the second incident, but in the first, she's in her pyjamas. She was getting ready to sleep when the hollow detector thingie went off. It's not that she didn't bother with shoes, she had no time to change clothes, and they left through the window, not through the door of the house where her shoes were. Which is why she wears no shoes in that scene. (Ichigo wasn't wearing any shoes either in his actual body, and for that matter, neither did Orihime and Tatsuki. In Japan they don't wear shoes inside, they leave them by the door.)
"2-After Aizen got exposed, and she went to apologize to Kuukaku, she was wearing a very simple yukata and was barefoot. Both in the anime and manga, she not wearing sandals."
I don't know the anime (they screwed with so many things I don't really care either), but she DOES wear sandals in the manga. The whole time. You don't even have to look very close to see them. They fly off once, when Kuukaku hits her, as a visual gag, but otherwise she's wearing them all the time.
When she arrives at Kuukaku's: http://imgur.com/gvcOL
Next page: http://imgur.com/KyTAC
When Ichigo arrives: http://imgur.com/PnPTi
There. Sandals. Can we put an end to this stupid debate now?
Edited by Barano
I haven't seen it, and the canonicity of the movies is up to debate anyway. (It's a spin-off at best.)
If you have a foot fetish and want Rukia to reinforce it, go and write that she doesn't like shoes IN THE ANIME. But in the manga she shows no indication of that whatsoever.
Edited by Barano
Sorry, I didn't know until now the discussion was here. Below is why I removed the trope from the page the other day. I certainly didn't expect to see (nor intend to cause) the fuss on the History page that I witnessed today.
Orihime's brother first attacked Ichigo and Rukia inside Ichigo's bedroom. Rukia didn't even have time to change out of her pajamas, the fight inside the bedroom was too sudden and the threat to Orihime was too immediate. Peoples lives were at stake. Chapter 3, Chapters 18-25, Chapter 28, Chapter 33, Chapters 52-56, Chapter 228 all show she wears shoes or sandals even when in casual clothing. She did jump out of a window in Chapter 17, but she was wearing school uniform, including shoes.
When she apologises to Kuukaku in Chapter 181, I agree it's not the easiest chapter to view her feet, but she can be seen wearing sandals in that encounter. Barano has linked to the pages I was thinking of to show this. The only two outdoor barefoot manga scenes I can think of was the fight with Orihime's brother and her execution walk where she was stripped down to her undergarment. Neither of those scenes are examples of the Does Not Like Shoes trope and are not her typical behaviour.
If there are examples in the anime they would be filler or film material, occasional at best, and I don't know if that fits the trope because the trope is about a sustained habit not occasional oddball moments. Someone else would have to answer that as I don't really watch the anime, but I think the only thing that comes close to the spirit of the trope even in the anime is Dark Rukia.
Edited by Wyldchyld If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
X-14: Killer Cheese
Diegetic Interface is typically a gaming trope, but since Ichigo's Bankai clothes are used as a marker for himself and others of how much spiritual energy he has left, is there any objection to listing it regardless? Or possibly as an In-Universe trope?
Should Hollow Ichigo be listed as a separate character, seeing as he is Zangetsu's evil side?
Hide / Show Replies
X-14: Killer Cheese
Should a note be made in that little orange box of Ichigo being a Visored? Because it's considered a "species" on another character page, and I'm not sure if he ever lost those powers or not. — Okay, it's been a while and I'm going to go ahead and do it. Revert and discuss if there are objections.
Edited by illegalcheese
I added Despair Event Horizon to Ichigo's article because, well, he crossed it after Ginjo stole his powers. I also added Black Eyes of Crazy, annoting that he gets them when his Inner Hollow takes over and when he uses his mask.
How does Ichigo not get the trope story breaker power? There was a reason he had to lose his powers after his fight with Aizen. If he didn't every single battle after that fight would be a curbstomp battle.
Hide / Show Replies
Not really. Kubo could have created new villains of similar stature. It would be horseshit, but it wouldn't be a curbstomp.
This is still a signature.
There seems to be a lot of inconsistency in spoilers. I mean, on the espada page, each entry mentions who killed them, but there are things like Badass Longcoat or Alas Sweet Villain that are spoilered. Either the descriptions of them being dead should be removed or some of these should be unspoilered.
likes the cheeses.
Bleach 2 is currently in danger of reaching server-breaking size. See this thread for details. If action isn't taken, the page could be in danger of being locked.
My suggestion would be to split all of the current folders into individual pages. The (currently) under Goten 13 would still be a little bit on the large side, but it would at least give us some breathing room. Does anyone have any objections to this idea?
edit: Never mind, it looks like the pages have already been split. Good work!
Edited by Meeble Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Uh, guys? Someone recently tried to add Shut Up, Hannibal! to Ichigo's trope list, but it's not showing up. Did the page hit maximum size again?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus. Hide / Show Replies
i feel the tropes in the page needs a trimming review its so full of stuff that the removal of the anime only chars didn't really help it can't be edited again.
Hide / Show Replies
I noticed that it refused to be edited again, but even if we trim down the reviews of the tropes (some have already tried), it either wouldn't work or it wouldn't matter much, cause it'd refuse to get edited again. As it stands, worst-case scenario is that, no matter what we decide to do, edit-refusal will ultimately happen again, and everything else would just be a temporary fix.
If you want my proposal, I guess we should separate the Arrancar from everyone else (we'd leave the traitors and the human/soul residents alone), either have it as yet another subpage, similar to how Code Geass has its own sheet for the Britannians, or we'd have to put them into the Bleach Anime page. Now, if we go for the second option, merging them with the Anime sheet, then I guess we could also move the Soul Society Dwellers and Karakura Town Residents into the Bleach Anime page as well, list both as "Miscellaneous Manga Characters" and list the Arrancar as "Manga-Canon: Arrancar", stating on the introduction that we had to remove those entries from the original page to fix things up. Sound reasonable?
Edited by Serocco In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Split Aizen, Gin and Tousen from the Espada/Arrancar as it seems to be too much to put under a single folder. Might need a better name than "Aizen's Army - The Leaders", though.
To Serocco: Don't change the name spellings back; those have been recently revealed in the second official character databook MASKED, and thus constitute as Word of God.
Edited by MarqFJA Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus. Hide / Show Replies
As does most of the Espada apparently being Vastro Lorde. There's some WT Fy things in that databook.
There's actual debate on the Bleach Wiki on whether the relevant passage is supposed to be translated as "most Espada are Vasto Lorde" or "the (current) Espada are almost Vasto Lorde-level (i.e. high-powered Adjuchas; this of course excludes the Gillian-level Aaroniero)". Current opinion is to put the issue on standby while we get unambiguous evidence on which one is right.
See the "Avast you Lorde" section of this article for details.
That argument doesn't really fly when taking into account that same Gillian level. The distinction caused by the mostly does not carry over to the almost, which we know isn't true. Possible, but freaking unlikely.
The Espada are mostly Vastro Lorde Level does not carry the same distinction as The Espada are almost Vastro Lorde Level, in that only the mostly actually takes into account a case for which this is not true, like we know there is in the case of #9. To argue the almost would be to put an exception there where there isn't one, which would be possible if Kubo say forgot about that one case, but is unlikely regardless.
Edit: Well unless there's some weird way with the language that makes it not the case, but considering that person didn't bring such a thing up in his argument for the almost I heavily doubt it. Sides in the case of Barragon it's almost assured he is one regardless which would make the almost distinction fly right out the window. Only odd case is the blatant oddness surrounding Yammi in that regard.
Edited by RFDBlaze
Unfortunately, we at the Bleach Wiki's Translation Corner (I'm an Associate Member) don't have an experienced Japanese speaker on hand to determine the exact proper translation of the passage in question. The "mostly" vs. "almost" debate is in regards to the last word in that line, which could have either meaning.
On another note, it seems Tropers/Serocco is adamant on changing Risa's name back to Lisa.
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
In honor of my 50lb pup
Starting a new topic: same problem as above but happening at a different time and needing a new solution.
Characters/Bleach is no longer accepting edits again. I would suggest moving the anime-only characters to their own page, but it would be hard to break up the current folders. The only "easy" option I see is give Soulreapers their own page at the same time moving Rukia to "under the 13," and Aizen to "not under the 13."
Yu hav nat sein bod speeling unntil know. (cacke four undersandig tis)the cake is a lie! Hide / Show Replies
I think we should note this problem on the character page. I don't think the problem is obvious to the other users and we might have to tell them.
Yes, a multi page setup is needed. If we wanted to keep it simple we could just rename the movie page to Bleach Anime and throw all relevant characters in there divided by which arc or movie they were in. Or we could go a more complex route and make pages that divide them up by group alignment, which would probably get very messy very quickly.
I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.
Yes, a multi page setup is needed. If we wanted to keep it simple we could just rename the movie page to Bleach Anime and throw all relevant characters in there divided by which arc or movie they were in. Or we could go a more complex route and make pages that divide them up by group alignment, which would probably get very messy very quickly.
I rarely visit the forums to avoid the cynicism ooze.
Renaming the movie page seems like the simplest and easiest solution. I for one vote we do so posthaste.
"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."
Agreed. Also one for a separate, anime-only page.
In RWBY, every girl is Best Girl.
Since the page says "untagged spoilers", does that mean it's supposed to be a spoilers-off page; and if not what is the cutoff point for what is and isn't considered a spoiler?