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openSPUMC Venom's gender pronouns Film
In light of the release of the second trailer for Venom: Let There Be Carnage, I want to put to rest a seemingly unresolved query as to what pronouns should be used when referring to the Venom symbiote. Being a symbiote, it has no defined gender or sex, choosing to assume the form of its host and never refers to itself by any pronouns but "we" across all continuities. Same goes for the SPUMC (Sony Pictures Universe of Marvel Characters) version of the character where it briefly possesses Anne and then morphs into a female form. In the same universe, however, Tom Hardy's Eddie Brock refers to Venom with male pronouns (which his comic book counterpart never really does so), which Venom never objects to, so while there might not be a biological sex, the symbiote seems to identify as male. Gernerally speaking though, the entity formed when Eddie and the symbiote merge together is also called Venom and the combined form is referred to with male pronouns. I just want to know what the consensus is though about what pronouns pertain to the SPUMC symbiote itself before officially altering any associated work pages.
Edited by lemarhoffmanopenNo Title Film
13 days ago I removed the following from Star Trek V: The Final Frontier:
Now, it should be noted that the movie's failings aren't all Shatner's fault. We can also thank Executive Meddling for all the forced "humor", while the 1988 WGA strike short-circuited the screenwriting and the infamous Special Effect Failure was due to ILM being too busy with a few other projects to work on the film.
Still, the basic concept was Shatner's idea (although making Sybok Spock's brother was a Harve Bennett decision), and he knew about the studio's humor requirements before he even began work. Gene Roddenberry himself had expressed strong reservations about the pitch; he had good reason to be concerned, as he had previously written his own story about the crew meeting God and hated the result. (Though it should also be noted that Roddenberry's own counteroffered idea was, as it had been since the second movie, for the Enterprise crew to go back in time and either stop or commit the JFK assassination.) But Shatner persisted with the idea of Kirk beating God. Star Trek and religious topics have always been uneasy bedfellows; Roddenberry's well-documented atheism practically forced the series to always turn whatever "God" it ran into (the being in this movie as well as the Q Continuum) into Sufficiently Advanced Aliens. Deep Space Nine is the only series to pull it off, and Trekkies are divided on even that. Nevertheless, many fans prefer to ignore this entry entirely and simply go from the fourth movie directly to the sixth. Frontier is also the only one of the original films to have never been given a Director's Cut; Shatner has always wanted to do it, but Paramount Pictures likewise refuses to let him.
This movie isn't a total write-off, though: Star Trek V also features plenty of Character Development scenes between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy (the book ends with the three camping are quite enjoyable), a brilliant backstory scene involving McCoy and his father, and has a collection of well-imagined individual sequences such as Coming in Hot with a shuttlecraft. Consensus is that while Shatner's storytelling abilities might be a bit on the weak side, he certainly had an eye for good setpieces. Josh Marsfelder at Vaka Rangi, and his commenters, have much more to say about what is right as well as wrong with The Final Frontier.
I left the following edit reason:
12 days ago The Amazing Blachman added this:
With the following edit reason:
openPolicy of WMG pages of Same-Name works of different mediums. Film
Given that there currently exists a page for the Sonic the Hedgehog 2 film, I've been thinking of moving the "Sequel Guesses" folder from first film's WMG page to that of the second game. Would it be appropriate to add a section on the latter page to separate the Videogame-centric WMGs from the Film ones, or will the film WMGs need to be their own page?
The third avenue could potentially be creating a separate page for WMGs of the Sonic Cinematic Universe as a whole, though that may not be necessary depending on the number of films they end up making for it. I bring this up mainly because the Sequel Guesses WMG page covers not only ''Sonic the Hedgehog 2', but speculation for successive films and spinoff media.
Edited by Enderguy059openWas it necessary to have a page spoilers off? Film
This isn't the first time that a work page that been spoilers off despite the fact that the work isn't full of spoilers. Well, I found of the work which is a horror film named The Unholy. I find it weird because this page has a few examples and someone thinks that the page has too many spoilers. So what to do with it?
Edited by BubblepigopenPossible Too Bleak, Stopped Caring misuse Film
The YMMV page for Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019) has the Too Bleak, Stopped Caring entry with the following context: Part of why the film was critically panned is the overbearing amount of tragedy and destruction, the unrelenting tension from beginning to end, and a massive body count that makes it impossible to feel anything, except maybe annoyance at yet another "shocking" twist. Some fans generally agree, either feeling numb or exhausted by the constant horror taking place. Titans attacking humans (smaller than ants in comparison) and wiping out whole companies of fighter pilots and soldiers with single attacks makes the monsters appear less hopelessly powerful and more like boring Invincible Villains.
I have to ask, is this valid? Last time I looked, "Too Bleak, Stopped Caring" (formerly known as Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy) applied when all sides involved in the story's main conflict are equally unlikeable or the heroes' efforts ultimately amount to nothing and the universe still sucks. Since the story features clearly defined heroes and villains and its ending delivers a positive outcome, then the trope doesn't qualify. What do you think?
openIs Harry Potter an Adaptational Badass? Film
Much like the DC Extended Universe, the Harry Potter saga is no stranger to controversy and this time I wanna focus on our boy Harry. His character page lists him as an Adaptational Badass under the following conditions:
- In the first book, Harry is barely able to hold off Quirrell, with the effort nearly proving fatal. In the film, Harry kills Quirrell with relative ease, and is still on his feet before being downed by Voldemort's soul when he escapes.
- When confronted by Snape in the Shrieking Shack in the third film, Harry sends him flying into the wall with an Expelliarmus from Hermione's wand, which is supposed to be more difficult with a wand that hasn't chosen him. In the books, this same effect was achieved by him, Ron, and Hermione trying to disarm Snape simultaneously.
- In the fifth book, his duel with the Death Eaters in the Ministry had him fumbling spells a few times including reversing his own spell by accident. The film portrays him as being far more competent overall.
I have to ask: are these entries valid? Adaptational Badass has seen a lot of misuse in recent years and the AB page has a paragraph that says: At its core this causes a significant dissonance with those familiar with the original character. It is not about a change in personality (Martial Pacifist to Blood Knight), method of fighting (defensive Simple Staff to offensive BFS) or battlefield intelligence (Dumb Muscle to Genius Bruiser), but in terms of how relevant they are in a fight. The key is how they are able to navigate through the story. Consider as a result of Power Creep, Power Seep that Superman himself has varied from simply "above human" in strength to near godlike, but he has always been Superman.
Also, I've always believed that Adaptational Badass applies when the character, in his/her entirety, becomes a badass in the adaptation, not when he/she is given small moments of badassery, even when he/she is already a badass in the source material. So, what do you think?
openControversy in Man of Steel Film
It should be obvious by now that the DC Extended Universe is no stranger to controversy, but some people take it way too far and use TV Tropes to voice their displeasures with the franchise. Just a few moments ago, I had to delete a few comments that violate the neutrality of Man of Steel, along with some tropes that would work better in character pages. I should remind people that the Internet, and TV Tropes in particular, are not echo chambers that they can use to say/write whatever they want and not expect any consequences. I also understand my own actions will have consequence, which is why I patiently await for a response.
Edited by MasterHeroopenBlack Widow 2021 YMMV removals without an edit reason Film
Troper Ginjj21 has made only a handful of edits on the wiki exclusively on the page YMMV.Black Widow 2021. All these are removals without an edit reason of entries that seem perfectly valid. I have PM them to let them know that they need to put an edit reason for removal of YMMV examples. What do you guys think of the entries, are they okay to be restored?
EDIT: These are the entries in question:
- And You Thought It Would Fail: Despite the public perception that a Black Widow movie would fail or underperform following the character's death in Endgame, and it being perceived as "too late" for a such a movie to be made even after a decade of fan demand for a spin-off, along with the movie's simultaneous release on Disney+ potentially eating into the movie's box office, the movie still saw the largest opening at the domestic box office since the start of the COVID-19 Pandemic, with a $80 million opening weekend and an impressive $78 million international opening on top of that, alongside over $60 million in revenues from its Disney+ going directly to Disney instead of having to be split with theaters. The only downside is that markets where Black Widow was not released in a day-and-date fashion would take a hit due to piracy of the Disney Plus release being rampant.
- They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot: The revelation that Taskmaster is actually a grown up Antonia Dreykov could've served as the perfect impetus for why Antonia is so determined to kill Natasha. If it wasn't for Nat willingness to sacrifice Antonia's life (who was a child at the time) to assassinate her father General Dreykov, Antonia would've never had been physically mutilated then reconstructed into the villain she is now. This could have led to some poignant storytelling moments where Nat is truly forced to confront the reprehensible actions she has committed as an assassin as she is brought face to face with somebody she wrote off as Collateral Damage. But since Antonia is Brainwashed and Crazy for a majority of the movie, this plot point effectively gets swept under the rug the second Antonia is cured like all of the other Red Room candidates and is never brought up again.
- Catharsis Factor: Natasha freeing Taskmaster, especially given the reveal that she's just as much a victim as everyone else.
openA Serbian Film now has examples Film
As you may or may not have heard, A Serbian Film has been locked and disallowed any examples from 2012, due to it's nature. However, people who wanted to add examples have found a way to do so: They've made a sandbox page for the film and put the examples there instead.
There's also now a laconic page with a note that references the film's most infamous scene, a Trivia page (which only has one trope saying how the film was banned in many countries), and a YMMV page with all the audience reactions you'd expect to have in a film like this.
I can't imagine this was allowed; if a work is so disturbing that examples are not allowed and the page is locked, surely circumnavigating the lock to add examples in this way isn't allowed either?
Edit: Turns out this was already discussed a few months back. But the point about the YMMV page still stands (it was created only a few weeks ago).
Edited by Shadow8411openThis is getting VERY annoying Film
Could someone please tell everyone who keeps saying Taskmaster from Black Widow (2021) is In Name Only? I and others have deleted and corrected this point several times and yet people keep peddling it on Black Widow (2021), Black Widow (2021), MCU: Other Supervillains and MCU: Russian Government & Military.
Edited by MinisterOfSinisteropenEdit war on Laconic page Film
A couple of days ago, I edited Laconic.Music 2021 to be less complainy. It was originally this:
I then changed it to this, per the Laconic improvement thread:
Then The Living Drawing (Also the page's creator) went and completely reverted my edit back to what they originally wrote without an edit reason. Admittedly, I forgot to link back to the cleanup thread in my edit reason, but it's pretty clear they're edit warring now.
Edited by PlasmaPoweropen Redirect gun's aim to reveal allegiance Film
What is the name of the TV trope where a Mexican standoff or other drawn-gun conflict is resolved by one of the characters redirecting their aim, in doing so revealing their true allegiance? For example, Bob and Joe are holding Mary at gunpoint, but then Joe redirects him aim to hold Joe at gunpoint, revealing that his allegiance is actually to Mary.
Edited by jordansuchowopenHow do you modify a work title? Film
I just started a page for Blame. However, it has an exclamation point as it's close to an Anime with the same title. So how do you change it? The same goes for a Trivia page as well.
openNo Time to Die review Film
I noticed that there's a review on Film.No Time To Die, which struck me as strange since the film is scheduled to be released in October. Sure enough, turns out the "review" basically consists of two lines bashing the film (…because it got delayed by COVID-19?). I was wondering if something could or should be done about it. (I noticed that there's a "Flagged" mark next to the title.)
openSuperman = Pinball Protagonist? Film
I have to ask: is Superman really a Pinball Protagonist in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice? Superman is registered under the context that he rarely does anything active in the movie unless he is manipulated by Lex Luthor and/or provoked by Batman, to the point they actually have more dialogue than him, but a character can only be considered a Pinball Protagonist if and only if the character can be completely removed from the entire story, with little to no impact on the actual events or characters. Since Superman's confrontations with Batman and Doomsday are crucial to the story, does he really qualify as a Pinball Protagonist?
openMajor Joke Spoiler on Space Jam 2 YMMV Film
Someone added to YMMV.Space Jam A New Legacy what I believe is a MAJOR joke spoiler. The movie isn't out yet in most of the world, just a few early public screenings in select locations in Australia. As someone who has been following the movie since before there was any footage, I can confirm that if this joke is even real, it certainly hasn't been shown yet. I'm very disappointed, as it would have been a hilarious joke. Should this be cut? Or is the fact that there have been early screenings in Australia since July 8 mean it should be kept up?
Edit: the reaction is One-Scene Wonder, and the troper is Doctor Neo Raptor
Edited by AlmightyKingPrawnopenEdit War Film
Rice Romp added the following to Narm.Spider Man Trilogy on March 17th:
I removed it as it was deemed not to be an example by the Narm clean-up thread
Today he added this to the page which, is more or less the same example but with slightly different wording:
openMore Possible Biased Editing Film
While browsing through the Overshadowed by Controversy subpages, I noticed that someone changed the entry on Alice Through the Looking Glass to say that the film was overshadowed by accusations that Amber Heard abused Johnny Depp. Wasn't the scandal at the time that Depp abused Heard? Didn't the accusations against Heard come out long after the movie's release?
open'What an Idiot' on Hateful Eight Film
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/YMMV/TheHatefulEight
The 'What an Idiot' trope on The Hateful Eight has become just a literal discussion of back and forth. Point > Counter point > Point > counterpoint > unrelated 'what an idiot' trope that's not even that because it would rely on the character having background information they don't have > going back to the initial discussion with another counterpoint > point.
It's just a mess. Should it just all be excised?
The YMMV page of Superman Returns has several entries in the Hindsight tropes that could be interpreted as misuse, such as:
and...
Hilarious in Hindsight:
I could be wrong and this examples could be valid, but I wanna know what you guys think. Last time I checked, there was a forum thread to evaluate Hindsight examples.
Edited by MasterHero