Trope is much narrower than the name implies.: Blasphemous Boast

The trope is specifically topping god in some way (although in that case, I concede that being "Bigger than Jesus" would count, even Lennon didn't mean it in terms of hubris). I still get the occasional example of misuse for A God Am I (which is being a god, not topping god), or Tempting Fate (claiming "God couldn't", when it's not really topping God in terms of the trope).

This needs a name that makes the parameters clear (or maybe a Trope Transplant with the name going a Super-Trope that includes several such tropes).

Is it being misused? How frequently?

edited 18th Jan '12 1:53:42 PM by Ghilz

It's not that common that I have to delete a bad example, but it's still enough to indicate this name it just wrong.

Pretty sure Lennon said "more popular than Jesus" and that he did mean it that way.

It seems like the name is fine.

edited 18th Jan '12 11:04:25 PM by rodneyAnonymous

No, he didn't mean "we're greater than God" in some way. He was referring to popularity among teenage girls seemed to be more for them than Jesus.

Sure he did, "more popular" is "greater in some way". I honestly don't see the distinction you're making.

"I think I said that The Beatles have more influence on young people than Jesus Christ. Yes, I still think it. Kids are influenced more by us than Jesus." is pretty hubristic...

edited 18th Jan '12 11:19:14 PM by rodneyAnonymous

Well that example can be argued another time.

The name is objectively bad, because a boas that is blasphemous is not limited to the parameters of the trope. That means the name invites misuse, because it implies examples that are not this trope.

"Invites misuse" ... Has anyone done a wick check? Is it actually being misused or not?

Again, page examples are misuse, and I've had to clean them up practically since I started the page. But I will do a wick check later.

Okay, I should add the original intent of the trope was to brag that you have more of something than God, but not actually mean it. It was just supposed to be someone either being flippant (like the Goldeneye example), or just trying to give an impression of scale (the Dune example). It wasn't originally supposed to be actually thinking one is greater than God in some way.

But both are legit tropes (and the greater than trope would even allow the Titanic example, as it's claiming the shipbuilders have made something greater than God's power to destroy), so I say we should split (not sure where the page picture would go, since the context of that strip could mean either trope).

So that means when I do the wicks check, I'll see which trope any legit examples would fall into ("Serious" and "Not Serious"), and those that don't fall into either will count as misuse.

Wick checks will be in my next post.

(EDIT: Yes, this is a triple post, but I didn't just post these right after the other. I did give enough time for replies in between.)

• A God Am I - Three wicks. The first is just that trope itself, so misuse. The other two are claiming to be greater than a god, or being able to beat the gods up, so those are the "Serious" trope.
• Ajax - Misuse. Ajax is not claiming to be greater in anyway. It's more flat-out Pride.
• Amadeus - Misuse. He's not claiming he will actually top God by that. He's more just declaring he can hurt a mortal creation of God.
• Badass Boast - Just a trope comparison, but still properly done.
• Bigger Than Jesus - The first wick is good, but the line does admit it's a stock phrase. We might have to merge with either the serious or non serious trope. As for the second wick, I think it counts for the serious one, but why link to that when the page, as it is, is supposed to be a Sub-Trope?
• Disaster Dominoes - The Titanic reference counts as Serious, although it does count as current misuse, since the description specifically excludes tempting fate examples to keep the trope about not actually meaning these boasts (after all, it's just my suggestion that would make it not misuse later; it's still misuse now).
• Do Not Taunt Cthulhu - Nothing specific, but the context counts as Serious, although a lot of likely examples wouldn't fit trying to top God regardless.
• Characters.Dragon Ball Z Movie Villains - Misuse. That's just A God Am I.
• DragonFable - Serious
• Dune - Non Serious
• Characters.Elfen Lied - Serious
• Enemies with Death - Serious
• Fandom-Specific Plot - Troper pothole. Although it counts as Non Serious.
• Fiction 500 - First wick is a Non Serious description pothole. The second wick, actually counts as misuse, because it's about genuinely topping something the gods have (since it's evidently a world where gods use currency).
• FanFic.Game Over - Troper pothole, and a misuse. Hell's temperature isn't a deity attribute, and even then, being as hot as it fails the "more than" requirement.
• Characters.Homestuck Trolls Four - No context, so can't tell.
• GWAR - Calling Jesus "only a man" is more putting down Jesus than claiming you are greater than (that is unless they meant this relatively). The next parts of that example aren't boasting at all. So they are misuse.
• Jedi Mind Tricks - No context
• John Lennon - Non Serious, and according to that entry, wasn't even flippant.
• Katanas Are Just Better - That's not a boast. That's advice to be the Determinator. Misuse.
• Knight Fever - Non Serious (doubly so, since it's actually a joke)
• Long For This World - Non Serious. Sure the guy being referred to might be actually sure he's topped God, but the third person reference is just to give scale to his mindset.
• Look on My Works, Ye Mighty, and Despair - Again, the Titanic line is Serious, but misuse.
• Characters.Magical Record Lyrical Nanoha Force - Serious, but tempting fate misuse.
• Magnus - No context
• Mentalism - Then that's just ego, not this trope, serious or not.
• Awesome.Mines Of Dragon Mountain - Hard to tell. Need to know if Gabbro was telling the truth or not.
• Pregnant Hostage - Serious, although that example should best have given more context.
• Characters.Pretear - Non Serious
• Pride - Serious
• WMG.Psychonauts - Troper pothole, but counts as Non Serious.
• Real Men Love Jesus - If it's an aversion, then it shouldn't really count as either.
• The Revolution Will Not Be Civilized - Troper pothole. Although it counts as Non Serious.
• Small Name, Big Ego - Serious
• Characters.Soul Eater - No context, but I am sure that Badass Boast should be a separate item in that list, not a sub item.
• Steel Magnolias - Non Serious
• Memes.Street Fighter - That would count as a third person A God Am I. Misuse.
• Variations.Suite Pretty Cure - Serious
• Theodore Roosevelt - Misuse. It's not really topping God. That's more just a form of high praise.
• Till We Have Faces - Serious
• Time Cube - Serious
• Characters.Touhou Windows Two - Not sure prophesies count.
• Training from Hell - Serious
• Universe At War - Misuse. Not topping a god, just something closer to Rage Against the Heavens.
• Vision Of Escaflowne Abridged - Hard to tell. It's a joke, but not sure if Abridged Allen meant it.
• Walking Armory - Non Serious

And there is a difference between the serious and non serious versions, since the former is a form of pride, and the other is a form of trying to give scale to something.

edited 19th Jan '12 12:27:13 PM by DragonQuestZ

Just to clarify, by my count there are 12/46 (26.1%) serious examples, 10/46 (21.7%) non serious examples, 9/46 (19.6%) unclear examples, and 15/46 (32.6%) misused ones.

Feel free to correct me if I am miscounted anywhere, but that seems like a good deal of misuse to me. I would be glad to make a crowner if other people want one at this time, but I am not sure if a single proposition one or a page action one would make more sense right now.

edited 19th Jan '12 5:38:39 PM by LouieW

Well considering the wide misuses, and the functional narrative and characterization differences between the serious and non serious, I would say a page action would be better, since just one solution might not be the best, so we should have other options.

The full set of GWAR lyrics being quoted is, "I call out your God 'til before me he stands/But don't send me Jesus; he's only a man."

I would definitely call that both a boast (if not, an obvious sign of an overinflated ego) and pretty blasphemous to boot.

There's also this moment in the song's accompanying music video in which the band's lead singer knocks down Jesus while whooping his ass in a basketball game and taking a moment to rub it in afterward, but that's another story.

edited 19th Jan '12 6:32:46 PM by SeanMurrayI

Well that would fall under Serious then.

edited 19th Jan '12 7:09:46 PM by DragonQuestZ

GWAR? Serious?!?

EDIT: Alright, I got it now.

edited 19th Jan '12 7:35:15 PM by SeanMurrayI

I mean that the form is actually claiming to top God. It would fall under Played for Laughs, but still be that trope.

I'm not seeing a clear distinction between these types. From what I can see you'd really need Word of God to tell where things go on a lot of these.

It's context that can tell us. If a guy says "I have more money than God", it's not really the guy claiming he's seriously topping God in that way, unless this character is established to be that full of himself.

edited 19th Jan '12 7:48:39 PM by DragonQuestZ

But if the guys says "I have more power than God" which is it? Context is not always as clear as you're making it out to be. It's more likely to be ambiguous and arguable either way.

I didn't claim the context would be clear all the time. I just stated it would be how we can tell. We just need to have context so we can look at it.

As for that phrase, that would usually fall under Serious in most cases.

Yeah, I'm finding this whole split to be very unclear. I'd much rather lump the two together.

Just because the examples aren't obviously one or the other does not make a valid argument against splitting. Again, the point of either one of these is not the same, so they don't really make the same trope.

Wait... more money or more popular are not serious... but more "power" (what does that mean?) or less "mortal" (what does that mean?) are serious?

Agree that the distinction is unclear, recommend not making one at all.

They aren't different if no one can figure out the difference between them. I know I certainly can't figure out what this distinction is.