Foreign Troper
Ok, why exactly does Truer to the Text not apply to Superman as of Justice League ? It's noted on the very page that he had a Adaptational Personality Change before and was re-railed during that movie. Seems like a textbook example.
We have an entry for MCU Thanos too, for that matter.
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Just because that page has the same trope doesn't mean we should include it in this page too. Truer to the Text is a work trope, not a character trope. You might be looking for Character Rerailment, which is YMMV.
That's a pretty narrow definition, especially since the main page itself has several examples which focus on individual characters.
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Then maybe you could add that to the main page instead of a character page.
I'm no specialist but I'm pretty sure there are comics where his personality is closer to the one he has in Man of Steel and Bv S. He's not been written 100 per cent the same over 80 years.
Well yeah but this is his most common characterization.
Batman also isn't always written as having a no-kill code, but a good 95% of the time.
Btw, brought it to the "Are these Charactor Tropes?" thread and it said that its good to be put up as a character trope.
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I still think it looks better as Character Rerailment, especially because Truer to the Text can apply to entire works, not just individual characters. I just wish there was a way to tell which tropes work as character tropes and which don't.
I don't think Superman qualifies as an Adaptational Badass because it's really splitting hairs, especially especially since Superman's power level in the comics is pretty damn all over the place. We should try and focus on the version of Superman the DCEU has portrayed; namely, a young and conflicted hero who tries to find his place in the world.
When you try to compare this version of Superman against the huge amount of baggage associated with all of his different portrayals in comics, tv, and movies you end up with a rambling mess full of splitting-hairs.
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See, while I do agree with you on DCAU Supes, this one I actually lean towards keeping because while his power is all over the place in the comics, given Justice League has a newly revived Superman that makes the entire League entirely redundant.
His power level is on such a different relative level that I think it applies.
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Well, either Superman's revival made him more powerful or he has always been that powerful but never got the chance to cut loose, not to mention he is working alongside heroes who have been pushed outside their comfort zone.
Personally, I do think that they'll tone down his power level once they realize that "Faster than Flash, stronger than Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman combined, and Batman's just kind of worthless" isn't a great way to put butts in seats.
But as it stands as of Film.Justice League his relative power level is way above the rest of the team. Especially since at this point in the comics he was wearing his black suit to absorb sunlight because he was weakened by his death.
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Since the other Justice League heroes are getting their own movies, which will likely develop their powers without having to share screentime with other heroes, it remains to be seen whether or not Superman will still be the Justice League's most powerful member. Like I said, it's difficult to compare DCEU Superman to Comic Book Superman because Comic Book Superman's powers have been all over the place.
Before the page was separated from the others, the Clark Kenting entry was: "For the duration of Man of Steel, both Superman and Clark are the "real person" wearing different clothes, neither being a disguise. The issue of a disguise persona isn't dealt with until the end of the movie." Can this still be added?
Okay, there is obviously serious disagreement here...
This was the original edit:
Which was fine, simple, succinct, and got the idea across. Then the troper Nogai Khan made this change:
Giving this reason: Mainstream incarnations of Superman have averted this for decades. Post-Crisis Superman killed Zod, Faora, Non, Brainiac 13, Darkseid, and most famously Doomsday. Donner Superman killed Zod and Nuclear Man. DCAU Superman killed Darkseid and Brainiac.
Then I made the following alteration:
Giving the following reason. Reason: Quit invoking revisionist history...the stories you mention were more or less ignored or downplayed by later writers, and more or less ignored or undersold...the idea that Superman will kill as last resort is not part of his characterization AT ALL....Doomsday came back from the dead, and in the DCAU, Superman didn't kill Darkseid, that was a Self Disposing Villain...and as for Brainiac, What Measure Is A Non Human applies...quit normalizing Snyder's choices...
Nogai Khan restored his version with this reason: Reason: Please stop the revisionism. The most well known versions of Superman have canonically killed whether you like it or not (as you clearly don't like him executing Zod and Faoara/Non), and this version is no more prone to using lethal force than any other.
I disagreed with Nogai Khan's changes because it pretends that before Man of Steel the idea that Superman would kill in extreme circumstances was a normal and expected comics convention. The answer is no. It was not. That is the reason why Man of Steel was so controversial to begin with, why it was also controversial behind-the-scenes with producer Christopher Nolan himself disagreeing with initially only to be voted out.
The examples he chooses are more or less cherry-picking, and were more or less forgotten until it was brought up in the wake of Snyder's film to defend said action. I disagree with the example because it is a fundamental misrepresentation of the character, mythos, reputation, as comics and wider-media fans of Superman have understood it.
As for the specific examples: Doomsday was a Mutual Kill, and both of them came Back from the Dead, and Doomsday would very much qualify as a What Measure Is a Non-Human? as do Darkseid's Parademons from the DCAU, as does Brainiac-13 (who as per Geoff Johns wasn't the real Brainiac but Actually a Doombot). The only example that counts is from John Byrne's reboot which is certainly worth mentioning but it must be properly contextualized since the incident of Superman killing the Phantom zone criminals was virtually forgotten and downplayed by later writers, and the idea that Superman would kill if the situation called for it, is definitely not canon as is evidenced by stories like Superman vs. the Elite and its comic original "What's so funny about truth, justice, and the American way".
Which is why I insist the example be balanced, contextualized, and be properly accurate...
Edited by JulianLapostat Hide / Show Replies
I agree with all your points. Not to mention Nogai Khan responded harshly and gave a somewhat unfounded and rather bias claim about Superman's Thou Shall Not Kill rule outside of the DCEU.
Edited by TheLemsterPju
I have to ask: is {Superman really a Pinball Protagonist in Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice? Superman is registered under the context that he rarely does anything active in the movie unless he is manipulated by Lex Luthor and/or provoked by Batman, to the point they actually have more dialogue than him, but a character can only be considered a Pinball Protagonist if and only if the character can be completely removed from the entire story, with little to no impact on the actual events or characters. Since Superman's confrontations with Batman and Doomsday are crucial to the story, does he really qualify as a Pinball Protagonist?