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Discussion History Characters / DCEUSuperman

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[001] JulianLapostat Current Version
28th Nov '17 at 07:16:03 PM
Changed line(s) 8 from:
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[[quoteblock]]* ThouShaltNotKill: Like most versions of the character, he highly prefers to avoid killing and will even go out of his way to SaveTheVillain when possible, as shown when he [[spoiler:stopped Lex Luthor from getting pasted by Doomsday]], [[spoiler:pleaded for Zod to surrender peacefully even after their long painful battle]], and [[spoiler:chose to {{cherry tap|ping}} Steppenwolf rather than quickly and relentlessly pummel him to death.]] However, also like most versions of the character and in particular the Post-Crisis comics version, he ''will'' do it as a last resort if it means saving innocent lives, as Zod and [[spoiler:Doomsday]] found out the hard way.[[/quoteblock]]
to:
[[quoteblock]]* ThouShaltNotKill: Like most versions of the character, he highly prefers to avoid killing and will even go out of his way to SaveTheVillain when possible, as shown when he [[spoiler:stopped Lex Luthor from getting pasted by Doomsday]], [[spoiler:pleaded for Zod to surrender peacefully even after their long painful battle]], and [[spoiler:chose to {{cherry tap|ping}} Steppenwolf rather than quickly and relentlessly pummel him to death.]] However, also like most versions of the character and in particular the Post-Crisis comics version, he \'\'will\'\' do it as a last resort if it means saving innocent lives, as Zod and [[spoiler:Doomsday]] found out the hard way.[[/quoteblock]]
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Giving this reason: ''Mainstream incarnations of Superman have averted this for decades. Post-Crisis Superman killed Zod, Faora, Non, Brainiac 13, Darkseid, and most famously Doomsday. Donner Superman killed Zod and Nuclear Man. DCAU Superman killed Darkseid and Brainiac.''
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Giving this reason: \'\'Mainstream incarnations of Superman have averted this for decades. Post-Crisis Superman killed Zod, Faora, Non, Brainiac 13, Darkseid, and most famously Doomsday. Donner Superman killed Zod and Nuclear Man. DCAU Superman killed Darkseid and Brainiac.\'\'
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[[quoteblock]]* ThouShaltNotKill: Averted most notoriously in the climax of ''Film/ManOfSteel'', however like other versions of Superman he will invoke WhatMeasureIsANonHuman on monsters like Doomsday and Parademon mooks.[[/quoteblock]]
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[[quoteblock]]* ThouShaltNotKill: Averted most notoriously in the climax of \'\'Film/ManOfSteel\'\', however like other versions of Superman he will invoke WhatMeasureIsANonHuman on monsters like Doomsday and Parademon mooks.[[/quoteblock]]
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Giving the following reason. ''Reason: Quit invoking revisionist history...the stories you mention were more or less ignored or downplayed by later writers, and more or less ignored or undersold...the idea that Superman will kill as last resort is not part of his characterization AT ALL....Doomsday came back from the dead, and in the DCAU, Superman didn't kill Darkseid, that was a Self Disposing Villain...and as for Brainiac, What Measure Is A Non Human applies...quit normalizing Snyder's choices...''
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Giving the following reason. \'\'Reason: Quit invoking revisionist history...the stories you mention were more or less ignored or downplayed by later writers, and more or less ignored or undersold...the idea that Superman will kill as last resort is not part of his characterization AT ALL....Doomsday came back from the dead, and in the DCAU, Superman didn\'t kill Darkseid, that was a Self Disposing Villain...and as for Brainiac, What Measure Is A Non Human applies...quit normalizing Snyder\'s choices...\'\'
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Nogai Khan restored his version with this reason: ''Reason: Please stop the revisionism. The most well known versions of Superman have canonically killed whether you like it or not (as you clearly don't like him executing Zod and Faoara/Non), and this version is no more prone to using lethal force than any other.''
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Nogai Khan restored his version with this reason: \'\'Reason: Please stop the revisionism. The most well known versions of Superman have canonically killed whether you like it or not (as you clearly don\'t like him executing Zod and Faoara/Non), and this version is no more prone to using lethal force than any other.\'\'
Changed line(s) 20 from:
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I disagreed with Nogai Khan's changes because it pretends that before ''Film/ManOfSteel'' the idea that Superman would kill in extreme circumstances was a normal and expected comics convention. The answer is no. It was not. That is the reason why ''Film/ManOfSteel'' was so controversial to begin with, why it was also controversial behind-the-scenes with producer Creator/ChristopherNolan himself disagreeing with initially only to be voted out.
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I disagreed with Nogai Khan\'s changes because it pretends that before \'\'Film/ManOfSteel\'\' the idea that Superman would kill in extreme circumstances was a normal and expected comics convention. The answer is no. It was not. That is the reason why \'\'Film/ManOfSteel\'\' was so controversial to begin with, why it was also controversial behind-the-scenes with producer Creator/ChristopherNolan himself disagreeing with initially only to be voted out.
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The examples he chooses are more or less cherry-picking, and were more or less forgotten until it was brought up in the wake of Snyder's film to defend said action. I disagree with the example because it is a fundamental misrepresentation of the character, mythos, reputation, as comics and wider-media fans of Superman have understood it.
to:
The examples he chooses are more or less cherry-picking, and were more or less forgotten until it was brought up in the wake of Snyder\'s film to defend said action. I disagree with the example because it is a fundamental misrepresentation of the character, mythos, reputation, as comics and wider-media fans of Superman have understood it.
Changed line(s) 24 from:
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As for the specific examples: Doomsday was a MutualKill, and both of them CameBackFromTheDead, and Doomsday would very much qualify as a WhatMeasureIsANonHuman as do Darkseid's Parademons from the DCAU, as does Brainiac-13 (who as per Creator/GeoffJohns wasn't the real Brainiac but ActuallyADoombot). The only example that counts is from Creator/JohnByrne's reboot which is certainly worth mentioning but it must be properly contextualized since the incident of Superman killing the Phantom zone criminals was virtually forgotten and downplayed by later writers, and the idea that Superman would kill if the situation called for it, is definitely not canon as is evidenced by stories like ''WesternAnimation/SupermanVersusTheElite'' and its comic original
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As for the specific examples: Doomsday was a MutualKill, and both of them came BackFromTheDead, and Doomsday would very much qualify as a WhatMeasureIsANonHuman as do Darkseid\'s Parademons from the DCAU, as does Brainiac-13 (who as per Creator/GeoffJohns wasn\'t the real Brainiac but ActuallyADoombot). The only example that counts is from Creator/JohnByrne\'s reboot which is certainly worth mentioning but it must be properly contextualized since the incident of Superman killing the Phantom zone criminals was virtually forgotten and downplayed by later writers, and the idea that Superman would kill if the situation called for it, is definitely not canon as is evidenced by stories like \'\'WesternAnimation/SupermanVsTheElite\'\' and its comic original \"What\'s so funny about truth, justice, and the American way\".

Which is why I insist the example be balanced, contextualized, and be properly accurate...

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