Have a question about how the TVTropes wiki works? No one knows this community better than the people in it, so ask away! Ask the Tropers is the page you come to when you have a question burning in your brain and the support pages didn't help.
It's not for everything, though. For a list of all the resources for your questions, click here. You can also go to this Directory thread
for ongoing cleanup projects.
While YMMV may be a little more flexible, I always thought the trope had to apply in order to be included. Otherwise any troper could add anything they want and just claim that it was valid under YMMV. What I mean is , if the trope is not valid then YMMV or not it does not belong there. If the show did not JumpTheShark then YMMV or no the trope should not be included in that section.
Could you link the example in question ?
Edited by Tuvok
Here.
It's when fans accuse it of jumping, which is out of universe and real life, which is no longer allowed.
Thoughts on removing Jumping the Shark from YMMV since all YMMV uses are out of universe, real life which are not allowed?
I think all IUEO tropes should be absent from YMMV indexes,note because the two are usually, if not always, mutually exclusive. I'm guessing that cases like this are usually the result of a TRS thread voting to make a trope IUEO, but neglecting to complete the process of removing its YMMV status.
Note that something can be both YMMV and NRLEP, without being IUEO; this is the case with Tear Jerker, presumably to prevent stuff like gushing about deceased celebrities. The main issue here is that Jumping the Shark is IUEO, not that it's NRLEP.
Edited by GastonRabbit Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
So from this, I'll remove Jumping the Shark from YMMV in three days unless anyone objects.
My assumption was that it was a case of some form of Example Sectionectomy in which the trope page itself only permits in-universe examples but it's fair game for works' pages.
Of course, I could be wrong.
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
^That's not what the In-Universe Examples Only page says. It says all wicks for tropes in that index are limited to in-universe. It doesn't mention any exceptions, and explicitly contrasts in-universe reactions with Audience Reactions.
Edited by GastonRabbit Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
That makes more sense.
Crack is Cheaper has the same problem.
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
Yes, please remove.
^I removed Jumping the Shark from Audience Reactions and Crack is Cheaper from YMMV.Home Page.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
I also removed the pages redirecting to them from YMMV Redirects.
Then again, all of the redirects to Crack is Cheaper are unused.
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
If we have Example Sectionectomy pages which don't allow examples on the page but allow them on YMMV pages, I see no reason why we can't have pages that only allow in-universe examples on the trope page but allow out-of-universe examples on YMMV pages. Something similar happened with Dude, Not Funny!.
EDIT: I thought that Dude, Not Funny! used to be YMMV.
Edited by rjd1922 Keet cleanup
^Not true. Dude, Not Funny! isn't YMMV, and examples for non-YMMV tropes (regardless of whether they're IUEO) never go on YMMV pages. If there are out-of-universe examples on YMMV pages, they should be removed.
Edit: It used to be YMMV. I meant that YMMV page usage was disallowed when it was made IUEO; this is covered in 2015 discussion page posts.
Edited by GastonRabbit Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Here's something interesting I found today, at the very top of Audience Reactions:
(commented out) "Merely being InUniverseExamplesOnly doesn't make it objective. Wicks also count"
This dates back to June 14, 2012. Dragon Quest Z tried to remove Discredited Meme from the page as it was IUEO. Septimus Heap, who only became a moderator at the end of 2014 and had another month and a half before heralding the FAQ thread, put it back and added that message.
I'm not sure if this was a contemporary mod's decision or not. I just want to draw this to our attention.
Edited by Brainulator9 Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
^I mentioned Crack is Cheaper's IUEO status when it came up in the cleanup thread for complaining and Barrenta said that IUEO and YMMV are incompatible. Was there a policy change at some point?
Edit: Found the post in question. I don't know if I previously saw the part she added about removing out-of-universe wicks.
First of all, looking at that discussion page, I should have trashed all of those Oogieloves Caustic Critic quotes when I removed a Blatant Lies entry that referenced a character saying "this is the greatest movie ever!" (that, and added a missing trope).
Second, I asked SH for his thoughts.
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
Lookie, lookie, I found MORE VIOLATOOOOORRRRSSS!!!note
- Correction Bait, and I plan to correct this mistake!
- Discredited Meme, but we've mentioned that already.
- Fan Hater, which is about Koreans being fearful of death by mechanical fans.
- Lawful Good, although character alignments in general are their own brand of being listed on the website.
- True Art Is Angsty, even though the other True Art tropes are not IUEO.
Discredited Meme allows examples where the creator acknowledged a meme as discredited, which would fall under trivia.
Keet cleanup
For the record, the reason why I put that comment in there is because back then there were pages which had links both from audience examples and In-Universe examples, either due to a lack of cleanup or due to deliberate decision.
I dunno if the latter is still the case today.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Correction Bait only has one YMMV subpage wick, and I'm pretty sure it's in-universe, just placed on the YMMV page for some reason.
Does that mean Correction Bait is safe to remove from Audience Reactions, per what's been said in this thread?
Also, if any cleanup needs to be done, would it be better suited to a project thread? This thread is getting kind of long, especially since the original trope involved (Jumping the Shark) has had its issue resolved.
Edited by GastonRabbit Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Move the last YMMV since it's used in-universe and removed Correction Bait from YMMV, thanks for pointing out that easy fix.
If anyone thinks a more dedicated cleanup thread is called for, I'd approve of it.
Which page was that?
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
The issue is that if a TRS thread voted to allow in-universe examples, nobody told them that would mean all out-of-universe examples on YMMV pages would be removed, and they may have voted differently if they had. For example, this thread voted to allow in-universe examples on the page for Perverse Sexual Lust, but nobody said that it would mean cutting all YMMV page examples.
The OP did;
Everyone else seemed to be saying allow, not restrict. I don't think it belongs on the IUEO index.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Exactly. People didn't vote to remove examples from YMMV pages, only to allow in-universe examples on the page.
Keet cleanup
A troper PM'd me about why I deleted a Jumping the Shark entry from a YMMV page if it's a YMMV trope. I explained it's because it In-Universe Examples Only and No Real Life Examples, Please!, but that got me thinking, why is it still YMMV then? We removed Dude, Not Funny! from YMMV once we decided it in-universe only.
Should we remove Jumping the Shark from YMMV since there's still confusion over it?