TLP workstation thread

I plan to make a draft for the stereotype of Westerners as blond, blue-eyed, white and tall. Is it a legitimate Sub-Trope of Phenotype Stereotype or it's just The Same, but More Specific?

Those examples make up 95% of Phenotype Stereotype. Don't know if it's worth splitting from that.

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 24th 2020 at 1:12:19 PM

I have been lingering on this draft that I'm grabbing. It's the Tactical Becomes Practical draft. It used to be "Swords to Plowshares" but it got vetoed because it was a Stock Phrase by a mod who seems to be no longer around. My reasons for making it linger for so long is that the "Tactical Becomes Practical" might potentially conflict with a show from the early 2000s that showcases the conversion of weapons to peaceful uses, and the I have an appeal to bring the title back to "Swords to Plowshares", as it's an idiom and it's a preexisting term.

I plan to make a draft for the Opposite Trope of Buxom Is Better because Petite Pride is for a character being proud of her flat chest rather than the notion that having small breasts is attractive. Could someone give me examples?

Edited by IukaSylvie on Mar 29th 2020 at 6:30:27 PM

^ There was Pettanko, but that seems to be an anime fanspeak now. All I could think of with an example is how it was a beauty ideal in the 1920s to have flat chests.

^ My draft for Petite Is Prettier has gotten ten bombs. I know it needs some work, but not everyone has said why they've bombed, and I think bombing is supposed to disagree with added hats.

Sadly, people don't always wait for premature hats before they start bombing the heck out of drafts, because, as the "On the Use of Hats and Bombs" thread discusses, there have been a LOT of premature hats scattered liberally to drafts that have a good idea but still need wrinkly issues ironed out, and then derpy tropers launch the drafts before those issues are fixed, which causes squawking on the premature launch thread, which is getting a backlog... It's a mess.

Now, I could take a look at your draft and take a guess as to what specifically might be attracting bombs and how you could fix it, if you need help getting more specific than "needs work". Addendum: I took a look, and I'll be leaving the feedback on the draft itself.

Edited by Miss_Desperado on Mar 29th 2020 at 6:04:23 AM

Some users have accused it of violating the rule of No Lewdness, No Prudishness even though I don't think any of the current examples have done so.

I've been a troper for over a decade, but this is probably the first time I consider sponsoring a TLP. I read the guidelines, but I want guidance on two things:

1. I'm sure, technically, that a TLP draft does not need to be launched with examples. But are there any recommendations on this issue?
2. I'm not knowledgeable on writing trope descriptions. Where should I look for a start?

Thanks all.

Technically no you don't need examples, but you'll be bombed to hell if you don't provide any. So have as many examples as possible. The more examples, the more launchworthy the draft is considered to be. Don't worry though, comments always provide more than you yourself can come up with.

As for the second point, there's no real guidelines on writing a trope description, we do have a sandbox drafting one right now if you want to take a look but really, just try and focus on the actual trope and what the criteria is. Don't go right for style; think of the examples you have and figure out how to describe the trope based on the examples you have.

WarJay, the first point is what I am having problem with. I feel like writing a TLP since some TF regulars recommended me launching one for a particular query, even up to this point I can think of exactly one example.

What's your idea? Lemme see if I have examples for you. If I do, you can use them.

Also, it's not like you'll be ready to launch immediately anyway; people are usually forgiving if you just say "hey, I have the idea but can't think of other examples, so this needs more".

Well, I should try my hand writing another draft that I can confidently pick about 10 example from its expected supertrope.

Edited by SamCurt on Apr 1st 2020 at 9:04:38 AM

Go ahead.

I am presenting my first-ever TLP draft at Sandbox.Sam Curt 2, with a working title of "Flashback Cold Open". The potential of it being a separate trope was raised by Unsung in a Trope Finder query I made; but I'm not sure whether a trope that's just the overlap of two large tropes is a viable trope on its own.

All but one example are pulled from Flashback, The Teaser, or their subtropes.

This is the first time I've ever written a trope description, so feedback is particularly welcome.

Edited by SamCurt on Apr 1st 2020 at 10:12:21 AM

I plan to make drafts about gender nonconformity: a Missing Supertrope to negative attitudes towards it and a Double Standard where a masculine female is tolerated more than a feminine male.

I need more examples because I know only one.

- Wait, what's the Missing Super Trope you're talking about?

So, the other thing is Tomboy vs. Sissy?

Ok, so Sissy isn't a trope. Mine Sissy Villain's description for the tropes you want?

In Touch with His Feminine Side?

Gonna toss a request in the Locked Pages thread for Sissy as a redirect to that, or a disambig between that and Sissy Villain.

- And some ninja-ing happened. Ha! Not sure who to who, though.

Edited by Malady on Apr 2nd 2020 at 7:26:59 AM

In Touch with His Feminine Side covers "sissy" I believe

Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 2nd 2020 at 10:25:44 AM

What I wanted to say is that it would be useful if it existed an index or something encompassing tropes about negative attitudes towards gender nonconformity (such as Creepy Crossdresser, Heteronormative Crusader, and Stay in the Kitchen) in general. Tomboy and In Touch with His Feminine Side can't list the tropes mentioned above.

- So... Homophobia Index: "Tropes Specific to Transgender, Gender Non-Conforming, and Intersex People"?

I'm surprised that existed, but I guess I shouldn't be?

You could use Anchor Points to link to it, after an edit...

Goodnight!

Edited by Malady on Apr 2nd 2020 at 8:51:45 AM

More opinions on whether Accessorized Nudity needs to be expanded to cover non sexual cases or if they need to be split off?

The Lesbians Love Violets draft has gotten five dive-bombs with no explanation, even after comments were left asking for feedback if people were going to bomb. I'm 90% sure this is just homophobia, but can some people look over the draft to make sure there are no glaring issues we're missing?

Relatedly, are exceptions ever made to the net-5 hats guideline if bombs are being dropped in bad faith, while enough other people agree that a draft is solid?

It's not always easy to tell if bombs are being dropped in bad-faith, though. As for that draft, it looks mostly fine, though it does concern me that some of the examples are just lesbians who are named Violet. I'm sure the association is there, but the trope is about lesbians liking the flowers and colors, right? The description may need to mention that modern examples may do this symbolically instead through names or colors or what have you, rather than literal references to the flower.

But yeah, it's impossible to make that sort of rule until we can better enforce hat and bomb reasons as a thing; otherwise you'll never know if the hats and bombs are added in good faith or not.

Granted, LGBT-themed drafts do tend to attract a lot of bombs, but ya know, speaking more generally we can't really set an exception for such a case.

Yeah, there's the rub. Thanks for your input! I'll add a note to the draft about symbolic uses.

I've got two drafts I've been working on off-and-on and am looking to Launch. I lurk in the TLP crash thread, asked there, and they recommended me here.

The drafts aren't in a bad place, both are above +5 net hats and both have a decent number of examples, but I'm not entirely sure they're ready to launch and, precisely because I lurk in the Crash thread, I want to be as sure as I can before I do any launching. I've updated them with a "Looking to Launch" in their titles to get some extra attention, but was also looking for some more specific help to iron out any potential remaining issues or anything I haven't spotted yet.

Incapable Of Disobeying - A force completely bypasses whatever free will a character may possess to make them obey, whether they want to or not.

Better Off With The Bad Guys - Character falls in with a bad crowd, or at least a group the setting considers a bad crowd, and doing so is an unambiguous step up from where they were previously.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Edited by sgamer82 on Apr 19th 2020 at 1:55:46 PM