Hmm, interesting.
Anyway, I've thought about Kat and her over the topishness, so I've decided to take her down a few notches. First of all, she's now just an average aspiring Gadgeteer Genius who, unfortunately, has a demon within her who can cause things to rot and decay. And there are various fictites who would like to use her power to do harm and when the tropers first come across her, she's being held captive with a restraining collar but the fictites have to keep replacing it because it keeps breaking down due to the decay.
How's that?
♥♥II'GSJQGDvhhMKOmXunSrogZliLHGKVMhGVmNhBzGUPiXLYki'GRQhBITqQrrOIJKNWiXKO♥♥Here's this:
- What Murky thinks of Cody: dependable in combat but otherwise sort of annoying; disproves of his bullying tendencies
- What Murky thinks of Hikari: thinks of him as a potential threat at first but slowly comes to like him, while still recognizing his demon poses a threat; thinks he’s goofy and reckless
- What Murky thinks of Jinxed: needs to be nice to her for Faw; encourages her skills in thievery since it can come in handy
- What Murky thinks of Korg: respects him as a strategist and official leader but otherwise indifferent
I've added Murky's bits to the list. What about Murky/Faw?
Anyway, as a reminder to everyone, please add appropriate tropes for your character (and favorite confirmed fictites) on the character page.
edited 13th Mar '10 1:43:08 AM by Ironeye
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.That one took a bit more thought than the others.
What Murky thinks of Faw: competent fighter; dependable; sweet personality; his lack of understanding social norms is adorable and amusing
People are mirrors. If you smile, a smile will be reflected.Is Terrence really going to have more than one appearance?
Not that I'd necessarily object, but I thought he was down as a Villain of the Week.
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The StaffI was thinking he might appear twice, albeit in a very reduced role the second time around.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.Well. Certainly no complaints from me.
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The StaffFellow members of the Over-Committee, all evidence points to this project being dying. Do we give it a merciful death? Do we let it drag on until it is well and truly expired? If we want to save it, what are we going to do to ensure that:
- The project has consistent "vision"? (Compare each iteration of the project to the others. Hell, compare different elements of a given iteration with each other.)
- The project has sufficient energy? (ie forward momentum)
- The project has contributors with requisite skills?
- The project doesn't seem like it's "locked out" from new people? (Let's face it—sometimes people will have to drop out, and we simply are incapable of replacing them with quality contributors.)
What say you all?
edited 5th May '10 3:15:14 AM by Ironeye
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.Oh dear. I hoped it wouldn't come to this.
- I think the project is reasonably consistent. Even when we've completely rebooted it, little has changed.
- Momentum could be a problem.
- Finding people with the requisite skills is a problem.
- I think the pages on the wiki ought to reduce Continuity Lockout as far as is possible.
I still think about this project a lot and I don't think we should jump to the conclusion that we need to kill it just yet.
1. "Vision" doesn't seem to be a problem. The existence of this Over-Committee should ensure that.
2. Momentum is a problem at present. While waiting for the storyboard art (that is what we're waiting for, yes?), we've let ourselves get distracted with various other things. But see my first sentence.
3. You know, I keep asking for a set of standardized...um...standards for artists so that I can put out a call on my deviantART account, and somehow it hasn't happened yet.
4. As long as we keep the wiki pages up to date, lockout syndrome shouldn't be a problem.
My advice for the time being is to keep the project on the back burner, make note of any good ideas you spontaneously get, and maybe from time to time we can brainstorm some stuff for Season 1. I would at least like to finish Episode 1, so that we can get some sort of audience reaction and see whether this idea actually has any creative merit or is just a load of TV Tropes inside-joke wankery. But we can't finish it without the storyboards, which is why it's not much good us agonizing over anything else in the meantime. Hence the back burner.
Re: Storyboards, I posted over a week ago and Sooty still hasn't gotten back to me with even the slightest update, so I really have no clue what's going on there.
Anyway, late last night I had a crazy idea. Ironeye+crazy+late night means you shouldn't take this too seriously, but I figured that I would share anyway.
What we have now really isn't TV Tropes The TV Show—it's a TV Show where an organization called TV Tropes appears, some of its members have the same names as tropers (and in some cases, the same personality), and there are mandated trope references per episode (one for the title and one in the dialog). The TV Tropes of the show doesn't have that much to do with the real TV Tropes, the characters named after tropers only kinda act like the tropers in question (to varying degrees, of course), and the TV Tropes-based jokes are kept to a minimum unless they can fly under the radar, as we don't want to alienate non-troper viewers. Lady and gentlemen, gentleman, and Those Two Guys, I submit to you that this is not actually TV Tropes The TV Show, but a show made by tropers that happens to have a few TV Tropes references shoved in so that the name is only a little bit ridiculous. This is the first premise.
Premise the second: People outside of the inner core have been most productive when they think a character based on them has a chance of appearing. See: people quitting the show when the character based on them has been cut (averted exactly once, with SSOT), people refusing to work on an episode when it's made very clear to them that there's not even an outside chance that their character will have a cameo, much less a larger role, forum personalities ignoring the project once it was clear that they could not create a character for a major role, and so on.
Premise the third: Very few new people want to read five pages worth of plot and setting detail along with as many pages of FAQs just to start contributing.
Premise the fourth: This show still has problems with The Artifact. (For example, the Murky/Faw relationship—we've now had over a year to come up with a reasonable in-universe justification for it, not to mention a point, and we haven't had much success.)
It is from these four premises that my idea arose.
The Idea
Toss it all. I'm completely serious (within the context of the crazy idea). Rebuild it from the ground up based on the original premise and the title. So, yes, Fourth Wall comes down, ficitites devastate the world, TV Tropes fights back...except (as per original premise), TV Tropes already existed in its current form in the show's universe. Fast Janitor pull together a bunch of people due to their contributions to a wiki based on fiction, equip them with all sorts of toys bought with money from who knows where, and send them out to fight fitites with knowledge from the Database and the power of tropes. Accept the absurdity of the premise and run with it! Load the show with in-jokes! Throw in Loads And Loads Of Characters based on tropers, all subject to hilarious Flanderization of their forum personalities and traits. Why the weird names? It's that kind of show.Each episode follows a group of five (or maybe six) of these characters as they go fight the antagonist of the week. Hilarity Ensues. How are these characters chosen? That brings me to the incentive system:
- Whenever someone is significantly involved with an episode, they get points (ranging from 1 for the sort of work I do to 3 for animating the entire thing).
- Everyone who has contributed gets put on a list, ranked by points (with the newest person to have a particular point total at the bottom of their "tier").
- The episode features characters directly based on the five people with the highest point totals. They pay half of their points, round up, for this privilege, dropping them down the list quite a bit.
- Create a similar "cameo" list for people who make important suggestions but not major contributions, but which plays by different rules: making a suggestion merely bumps you up the list by some amount, and everyone is sent to the bottom after their cameo.
- Write the plot on the fly. Since the cast changes from episode to episode (for maximum hilarity), just let the plot develop as it goes. Now, this doesn't mean that we can't have the barest bones of a metaplot, but it'll be more of an Excuse Plot for the wacky adventures.
- Hilarity Ensues
- Hilarity Ensues
- Hilarity Ensues
Thus, in this version, Ironeye would be the junior M.o.D. (Master of Domains, or something silly like that), the organization responsible for keeping order at the troper base. He's an insecure 22-year old who shamelessly flirts with many of the male characters (even some of the straight ones), regularly fails to properly ham it up, and keeps his "kicking boots" handy at all times when he's over at Site V (a satellite facility that he's been overseeing for some time). The base has both a left side (business) and right side (recreation), with the divide between the two camps exaggerated for hilarity. The characters at some point or another encounter things like the Loli Rape Bunker. The only foes TV Tropes take seriously are the Data Vampires. I'm sure you get the idea.
Anyway, this will let us draw in people with the carrot of Flanderized them appearing as a character (in episode 2, for those who help us on the first episode). We'll get new momentum. The spirit of the original iteration can be recaptured in a structured environment. The great bit about this is that the early episodes can stand completely alone, and for even the later episodes, it will be hard to tell the difference between a Continuity Nod and Noodle Implements.
How serious am I about this? I don't know. But think of this: I proposed this idea despite putting most of my effort on this project into planning out the plot (which would not only be cut, but would also cease to be a major focus). Even though it cuts out my favorite part, I still thought this was worth bringing up. So yeah...
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.I don't like it. For one thing, it feels too much like giving up. For another, it reeks of Running the Asylum...no, scratch that, it is Running the Asylum. The Tropers most susceptible to the lure of self-aggrandizement will become the biggest contributors by definition. That's a recipe for getting nothing useful done at all.
For a third thing, I think a lack of visual talent has been our biggest obstacle to date. We've never had a shortage of idea people and script people, but even when we had a long roster of ego-driven contributors, we had few artists and no animators. This move will do nothing to solve that problem; it will just give us more and more increasingly chaotic material that we have no way to render.
For a fourth thing, anything worth doing is worth doing well. If suggesting that we alter the project into unrecognizable mush—just so that we can produce something, anything—is your way of saying you're no longer seriously interested in it, have the nuts to admit it.
Fine, you caught me. I hate being part of a project that's bogged down because people aren't contributing. Been there, done that (for several months, with only one of the other four contributors even making an effort) and I hate it with the fury of a thousand suns and something else even more hyperbolic. I hate being hamstringged by "canonical" elements from people who aren't contributing any more. I hate not being able to plot out the story because people complain that they don't get any input, only to contribute nothing when I hold myself back so that they can add something. I really hate this project.
At the same time, though, I like the story, I like the characters, and I really like working with the little over half dozen of you who meaningfully contribute. I would say more, but I have a midterm I should have left for five minutes ago. Ciao.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.The way I see it, our viable options are as follows:
- We let the whole thing go gently into that good night. Good night! (Note: I would prefer to do this only as a last resort.)
- We cut all the dead weight—lazy so-called "contributors," plot points that don't work for us anymore, anything that doesn't actually work, start scouting for new talent, and pick up where we left off.
- We continue in the current rut, occasionally surfacing to bitch about the lack of progress, only to settle back down and get on with our lives until the next time.
Let's get the Old Guard together at the earliest convenience to discuss it. While we're at it, we can pin down exactly what we would need from artists so that we can start putting out some calls for volunteers, if that's what we decide to do.
edited 5th May '10 2:07:24 PM by Karalora
My view is that we should just get a move on. What we have is good. It's nowhere near finished, but it ain't broke and don't need fixing.
At the very least, we should get a pilot episode made. We have a cast of characters created and an episode scripted; that was the easy part. Now we need to actually make it, and to do that, we need an artist.
Now, we can either decide beforehand what kind of style we're after and advertise that - maybe even to the wider Internet - or we can put up a thread in TC or VA/G * announcing that we are looking for artists.
If the latter fails, I say we go with the former. If that fails... I don't know, screw it all.
Welcome To TV Tropes | How To Write An Example | Text-Formatting Rules | List Of Shows That Need Summary | TV Tropes Forum | Know The StaffSo, as I see it, our tasks are (in order):
- Smack Sooty upside the head for ignoring us.
- Finish Pre-Production of the Pilot
- Make sure all of the main characters have an accurate finalized profile in Concept Art Descriptions. Make sure that each character has a distinctive "look" that can carry over even when they do things like change their clothes. (eg Having someone in green pants all the time is probably silly, but giving each character a distinctive silhouette...)
- Decide on an art style.
- Recruit a concept artist by any means necessary.
- Recruit a storyboard artist (or have a current contributor volunteer)
- Recruit all necessary voice actors. We currently have Hikari as himself, Kara as herself, Matrix as himself, and arks as Ironeye. Still need: arks, Cody, Murky, waitress, the mayor, and two aides.
- Cut the unnecessary bits
- Figure out where we're going with each major character in the medium term. Determine the "point" of that character in a meta sense. Alter character details accordingly.
- ie What story are we telling with each character? Why is this important to the overall narrative? Many of the characters who have had that status for the past year have most of their "payoff" slotted in for the later seasons because that's where many of their character-critical events got moved so that the Dark Lodge could get introduced early.
- Season 1 is the focus here. We can't have a character be dead weight for most of the season. Ideally, for each season we will be able to come up with a character arc for each of the main characters.
- Slot in recurring fictites as appropriate (a job for me and Bobby)
- Figure out where we're going with each major character in the medium term. Determine the "point" of that character in a meta sense. Alter character details accordingly.
- Produce the Pilot (concurrent with the last item)
- Once the season 1 arcs for each character have been figured out (you know, just a few sentences necessary), do a rewrite on the script to foreshadow appropriately.
- Record lines.
- Recruit production artists and animators; make them our production slaves
- ???
- Profit (metaphorically speaking, of course)
- Use our new-found prestige to recruit more people.
- Finish Season 1
- Finish Show.
What a good idea, Ironeye.
edited 5th May '10 4:08:16 PM by Karalora
Hey, I updated mine six weeks ago!
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.All I saw last time I checked was a link to that sketch.
Wait, what? I'm one of I think three people who have more or less continuously had a profile up since the week the page was created.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.Maybe it was a loading error, then. No matter—I see it all now.
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.
Given how (relatively) easy it is for us to generate ideas and plot, I believe the ultra-mega-high-priority tasks for us now would be:
- Decide on an art style.
- Recruit a concept artist by any means necessary.
- Recruit a storyboard artist (or have a current contributor volunteer)
Note the nesting. Deciding an art style comes first because that's how we'll pick which artist(s) to accept into the production staff, or what kind of artist we want to advertise to in the first place. I'm listing just these three because that's what seems to be getting us stuck—I feel that because we can't make any more progress with the pilot, we're only motivated to roughly sketch out the next few episodes at most. Seems (relatively) easy enough for us to generate ideas and plot if/when we need to start mapping out show content, and we're not having such a hard time with voice casting. (Or are we?) It's the art department that we need more focus on.
Of course, y'all probably know that by now, but... yeah, I ramble.
This "faculty lot" you speak of sounds like a place of great power...A thought on the concept art descriptions...
Don't include any illustrations at this point, especially not ones made with a dollmaker program or anything like that. The style we end up choosing will definitely not be like the ones these programs typically use, and we don't want the artists to get the wrong idea or think they have to emulate existing images.
Interesting Three Character Interactions: (to be filled in later)
Notes on the triples:
edited 13th Mar '10 1:42:53 AM by Ironeye
I'm bad, and that's good. I will never be good, and that's not bad. There's no one I'd rather be than me.