During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to James, Munguya, and Ben.
No to Blaise.
Alright, got a pair upcoming...
What's the work?
Dragonvarld is a trilogy by fantasy writer Margaret Weis of Dragonlance fame, set in an original world...the Kingdom of Seth is famed for its anti-dragon magic, among a society of female warrior monks led by its Mistress. Our heroines are Melisande, a skilled up and comer, and her lover Bellona. At the same time, the Dragons of the world have been keeping largely neutral from the world save for the occasional parliament between themselves...issue is one of their own has gone rogue. Enter Maristara.
Who is Maristara?
The secret ruler of Seth, Maristara is an ancient dragon who broke the rules of noninterference to steal the kingdom. Taking refuge in human form, Maristara's done a bang up job of convincing the humans within dragons are evil, meaning whenever dragons have come to remove her from power, they get killed. She also murdered her own son (or had him killed) Which resonates with her grandson Braun and granddaughter Lysira who wish her brought to justice. Draconas, an agent of the Parliament opts to go undercover in human form as a "Walker" there to expose Maristara, as a prince of a nearby kingdom is also over as well, who's also quite skilled and from a powerful bloodline of magic...
Maristara is revealed to be in commission as the Mistress. Now, every few decades, Maristara has a way of swapping out. To take human form is very difficult for dragons, and Maristara has a very easy way to deal with it: she rips the heart out of a human, keeps it in a locket after shrinking it down, seals the still living body and takes their form, connecting them, but the victim is kept alive. In agony. For decades while Maristara borrows the form...and she has a partner who's got his own form and kingdom, as the two are building an army to conquer the world. Maristara attempts to replace Melisande, only for Edward to save her and the two run off together, Maristara making due with another woman named Lucretta, with Bellona convinced Melisande hasbetrayed her. Deciding there's an easy way to utilize draconic bloodlines, Maristara calls upon her partner, Grald, and has him attack Edward and Melisande after they briefly become lovers, Grald raping Melisande, who ends up pregnant with children by both men....Maristara settles back with Edward taking his son back home and Bellona rescuing Grald's half-dragon son, named Vengeance, or "Ven." Fast forward about twenty years and Maristara has been building up her forces with the help of a traitor on the council...largely absent from book 2, book 3 sees her go all out. When Grald is killed, Maristara marshals her forces, and meets up in Grald's little kingdom where he's been personally breeding tons of half-dragon kids. Declaring it a failure, she orders all the children killed, with all the pregnant women.
Taking her armies, Maristara leads them, calling a number of dragons to her side, on pure conquest. She bulldozes two entire cities, burning them and massacring everyone inside, with all seeming lost until Draconas leads the remaining dragons in a civil war, prompting Maristara to engage him. In a final conflict, Maristara tries to murder her own granddaughter (she has her grandson Braun murdered early on) and gleefully tries to rip her apart so Draconas will suffer as he and Lysira are in love...Draconas interrupts her and in the following duel, Maristara's wing is damaged, Draconas plummeting from the sky with her before he's able to veer off...Maristara plunges into the ground, shattering her bones and dying instantly there.
Any mitigating issues?
A filicidal tyrant who masterminds the deaths of her own people, condemns many women to a horrific fate to take their forms (something that's about convenience for her more than anything)...it's pointed out Maristara intends to create a gigantic war so she can rule the world and isn't shy about mass slaughter to get there. Now she isn't totally approve of Grald running his own land as he does, but only because she's skeptical he can control his brood and orders a slaughter of children and pregnant women to boot.
She does admit after he's dead that she misses Grald, but this is solely because she realizes she's grown to rely on his cunning and ruthlessness more than she realized. Grald is the dragon equivalent of a peasant and on a personal level, Maristara holds him in utter contempt. She also tries to murder her granddaughter for sheer spite.
Conclusion?
A yes.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Maristara. Any thoughts on my NA entries, by the way?
Goku Black
Maristara
And now the second...Grald.
Who is Grald?
One of Maristara's two co-conspirators, Grald is the dragon equivalent of a peasant. A thuggish brute of a dragon, Grald wishes to reign over most of the world. Taught the art of body snatching by Maristara, Grald likes to choose brutal, cruel humans for his 'hosts,' founding his own secret kingdom where he has children, mainly males, abducted to be trained as his own secret magic monks....a life of torture and pain to be conditioned as loyal to Grald. Grald, in book 1? Violently rapes Melisande, while he views it as nothing more than business, his human mind at the time takes great pleasure in it, which Grald allows himself to indulge, after almost brutally killing Edward. The two are saved by Draconas who keeps them away from Grald, Melisande dying during the birth of the twins.
Grald's son, Ven? Grald decides to use him as a weapon, trying to manipulate ythe young half-dragon and play him against his brother with one intent: Grald wants a leader to his own nation, someone to lead his armies. You might think this would be Ven, but...nope, Grald just wants Ven's form for it. In the meantime, Grald has been very busy: his little dragoncult kingdom? Grald has been breeding an army. Upon confirming it's possible with Ven, Grald has raped or coerced multitudes of women into being breeding stock for him, something that he knows kills the mothers as the children feed on them from within, Grald raising the children as loyal only to him while culling any he deems as weak. He also tells them about Ven as their brother...When Ven arrives, Grald manipulates him quickly, bringing him to where he wants him...and then plans to murder him, tearing out his heart and leaving him in the dark to take his form.
Ven is badly beaten down, but before Grald can take his heart, Ven's connection with his twin Marcus, gives him a surge of their power together and be uses a magic blast to tear into Grald, incinerating his chest and frying his heart. Grald collapses, dying in twitching, helpless agony as he stares at a victorious Ven.
Mitigating Qualities?
Grald has a host of crimes himself, but the fact he's a serial rapist dragon breeding his own army gives him a hearty little niche of his own. Maristara doesn't approve for reasons of trust and Grald is only her ally by virtue of pure convenience. Of the dragon conspiracy, th third member, Anora, has some morals (not many, but some) and disdains pointless murder, in a pretty amusing moment when she angrily tells Grald she hasn't enjoyed killing. Grald's response? "Neither do I!" ...which the narration immediately notes is a lie, and he loves killing. Followed up with the line "I'm gonna my own son, do you see me whining about it?"
Pretty impossible to say Grald has any good qualities.
Conclusion?
Likewise, Grald's a very easy keep
to Grald
Ultimate Moral Compass
Dragonvarld duo
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
The Moron
Yes to the duo
And on an unrelated note, The Purge!
- The Purge: Ben Gardner is a college student who gets his first kill on Purge night, unlocking a repressed bloodlust within him. Outside of the Purge, he murders a farmer for supposedly shortchanging him, and when he learns that the NFFA covered it up to protect Purge statistics, he decides that this means he can get away with murder. Ben goes on a killing spree, stalking his targets for upwards of weeks before attacking and even getting physically aggressive with his girlfriend when she learns his secret and tries to flee. On the next Purge night, he massacres his frat house because they express concern for his mental state, then proceeds to slaughter everyone in his path, both violent Purgers and the doctors that save his life. Growing to live only to fuel his God complex through killing others, Ben serves as the living embodiment of everything wrong with the Purge.
Mari and Grald
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
A sandbox for Administrivia.Complete Monster isn't needed, but I decided to take the Ace Attorney duo to the Locked Pages thread.
Edited by MalleoWeegee on Feb 23rd 2021 at 9:01:02 AM
"I SHALL UNIFY THE WORLD! FROM ALPHA TO OMEGA... BOW DOWN TO ME!!!"
Current mood: sick of your shit
Dragonvarld duo
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Mari and Grald.
Yes to the two from Dragonvarld.
- Hole in the Forehead: General Munguya is the leader of a bunch of bloodthirsty Mexican revolutionaries who freely endorse in Rape, Pillage, and Burn under Munguya's command. Seeking a treasure whose location is written down upon three playing cards, Munguya already possesses one and rewards the man who gives him the second with a knife to the heart. A savage sadist, among other cruelties Munguya tests out a Gatling gun on a bunch of captured POWs with naked relish and holds the head of a woman who survived one of his massacres in a barrel of wine until she drowns.
Edited by Scraggle on Feb 23rd 2021 at 7:37:39 AM
Maristara and Grald.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Maristara and Grald.
I found no previous discussion of this series on google search, so stop me if you have heard this before. I am pretty sure one villain from this series was discussed, even if this one wasn't.
What is the work?
"Sex Drive" is the fifth episode of Spicy City, an adult cyberpunk animation series by Ralph Bakshi.
Police Officer Nisa Lolita investigates the disappearance of multiple sex workers, and discovers a conspiracy which involves a man experimenting on the women to create virtual prostitutes using their extracted personalities.
Who is Otaku, and what has he done?
Otaku works for M&G Corporation, experimenting on prostitutes and extracting their personalities, leaving them catatonic.
Subsequently, Otaku uploads their consciousness to a disc and reworks their personalities to make them complacent as virtual prostitutes.
As former Officer turned Taxi Driver Nisa Lolita investigates, Otaku captures the cyborg prostitute Virus, extracting her personality and using her body as a machine for extracting the intelligence of his employers, Max and Goldblum.
When Otaku meets up with Max, one of the partners at M&G, he demands to be made a partner in exchange for having the personality discs copied. In response to Max's refusal to comply, Otaku has Virus extract Max's personality, leaving him catatonic.
Nisa encounters Virus as she is trying to escape, and follows her to Otaku's lab, where she discovers the missing prostitutes, suspended from the ceiling. Nisa records as Otaku gropes Virus and extracts information from her before rescuing Virus after an altercation.
While Nisa heads to the Commisioner's office with the proof, Virus fixes the girls' personalities, and they gang up on Otaku with his own equipment and presumably kill him.
Mitigating Factors?
Otaku is greedy and does not care about anyone else. When the discs are destroyed, he is worried because of how it affects him.
Heinousness?
- Experiments on women: check.
- Leaves his victims catatonic: check.
- Extracts the personalities of the women and warps them to make them compliant as virtual prostitutes: check.
- Reprograms a cyborg woman and forces her to seduce people: check.
- Extracts the personalities and intellect of his employers, leaving both catatonic: check.
The virtual forced prostitution of at least 11 women, and the plan to continue the process, seems to be treated as heinously as if it were physical forced prostitution. That said, the tone is not as dark as if it were not a cartoon, and while the actions are taken seriously, I don't know how it compares to eugenics, biological warfare, bombing civilians, and withholding a cure.
Otaku is more actively involved in the scheme than either of the M&G heads, and goes further than they do, despite having nothing more than corporate backing and a dingy little lab.
Otaku seems to stand out against an abusive boyfriend, a dirty cop, disembodied hands which inflict violence, the mobsters who amputated the aforementioned hands, abductors of a rich girl, and a dirty and homicidal cop, however.
Verdict?
Not entirely sure TBH.Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 23rd 2021 at 10:28:19 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Woagh
Leaning yeah to Otaku, his crimes seems to be unique.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Feb 23rd 2021 at 7:36:14 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Otaku
Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 23rd 2021 at 9:08:01 AM
Munguya, Ben, Maristara, Grald and Otaku
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Blaise (glad that's resolved though)
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Ben, yes to the Dragonvald duo, yes to Otaku.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ben Gardner, Maristara and Grald, and Otaku. Blaise Debeste.
Goku Black
Grald and Otaku
to Maristara, Grald and Otaku.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Looks good
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