During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Caesar
'Yes' to Magase and same to Steven Seag—uhhhh, I mean, Aroon from that Steven Seagal movie! ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Alright, so as to bring this discussion to a proper conclusion, I'm gonna help my bud miraculous out with Roland Joseph Sable. Here's the effortpost for all who missed it/have forgotten.
Having watched the film? Sable counts, handily. He doesn't have any dialogue, but we see flashbacks of him sexually abusing his daughter, torturing 3 teens to death, and spitefully trying to kill the last one before getting shot to death, all onscreen. Yes, once he's a ghost all he does is growl and roar, but he still shows intelligence, sadism, and petty cruelty, such as fulfilling what his supposed "haunting" was all about—killing his final victim—then still trying to massacre the protagonists. He's not flourishing with character, but he's also not a GDV and unlike, say, Johnny Favourite who I recently argued to cut, Sable is at least onscreen for a considerable amount of time and his agency is never called into question. He's a disgusting, murderous bastard deliberately designed to twist a potential Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds story on its head and reveal him as a monster.
So yeah, Keep him.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Yes to Aroon.
Professor Gigachad
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Aroon and the ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
image.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Movie sounds dreadful, but yes to Aroon.
I also like the image. Who is it?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Professor Gigachad
Talyn the DragonLord I was also thinking of a caption like.
"Here is Talyn just casually stabbing someone to death"
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Feb 14th 2021 at 2:25:05 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Goku Black
Is the image killing someone in battle ? Not really a fan of those as cm images as that is truly not super evil on its own
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Aroon. Not a fan of the image.
Edited by Bullman on Feb 14th 2021 at 4:26:12 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, it gets the point across enough IMO.
Professor Gigachad
I don't know the context behind this killing and this was the best I was able to find.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Aroon.
Does it count as a Valentines Day EP if your story contains a romance, but it isn't the primary storyline?
What is the work?
Night Moves is an Urban Fantasy Comic miniseries by IDW.
Chris Dundee is a hustler who finds himself working alongside Las Vegas Detective Alexis Rohm in a case concerning demonic possession and corruption.
Who is Ashmedai and what has he done?
After several people are discovered catatonic in the basement of a bar, and the bodies of at least 50 priests are found decapitated in the basement of an "Anti-Davidan" Las Vegas church, Ashmedai possesses Rutger Smalenski and gets into an altercation with Dundee, Rohm, and Rohm's partner, Lucretius Jackson. The altercation ends with Jackson killing a possessed Smalenski, seemingly killing Ashmedai.
One year later, Jackson appears to be running for municipal office with the stated goal of cleaning up Las Vegas. When Dundee and Rohm confront Jackson over hiring the Loan Shark Tom "Tomcat" O'Reily as security, and involving him in the police, Rohm realizes that there is something different about Jackson. When they encounter the sole survivor among the priests, Father Nicholas, the latter explains that Ashmedai consumes souls, and is constructing a new casino called "Babylon" to gather souls for his own consumption while possessing Jackson.
Eventually, the leads discover more catatonic victims, who have been abducted for Ashmedai. When the leads try to find a dagger which supposedly can defeat Ashmedai, and are confronted by armed military personnel, Ashmedai massacres the soldiers (numbering at least 7), and survives being stabbed by the Dagger of Larsa. Ashmedai holds the leads captive, and demands the whereabouts of the Mask of Cephas, intending to painfully murder them when he learns the mask is destroyed; the leads escape by reconstructing the broken Dagger. 40 years later, Ashmedai's forces, including his brainwashed minions, invade Raleigh, NC. When his next host is killed, Ashmedai attempts to possess Dundee, but Dundee has already poisoned himself, thus robbing Ashmedai of a host.
Heinousness?
Ashmedai has had hundreds of people abducted on a regular basis and subjects them to a loss of personality which leaves them shells of their former selves, eventually using them as cannon fodder. Ashmedai has also killed at least 50 members of a religious group opposing him, and displayed their heads in a pile, and at least 7 armed military people.Tom "Tomcat" O'Reily, is a Loan Shark who starts out by killing an acquaintance of Dundee's, capturing Dundee alongside Rohm and her partner Jackson, handing them over to Smalenski/Ashmedai, having Ashmedai transferred between bodies (having the previous host killed in the process), putting the new host in a coma, having an undisclosed number of patrons of Babylon Casino killed when they try to escape (implied to be at least within the hundreds), burning Babylon Casino down for insurance money, dismantling occult temples and magic shops, attempting to murder Ashmedai's remaining followers when they are no longer needed, and trying to have Dundee's face disfigured in revenge for his own facial disfigurement.
Rutger Smalenski is little more than a pawn for Ashmedai, and a host for his body.
Three priests misguidedly try to shoot up a bar as a means of opposing Ashmedai, but have a comparatively low body count and are well intentioned extremists who turn out to have correct suspicions about the bar in questions.
Of these, only Tomcat possibly punches above his weight class, and is Ashmedai's only real competitor.
Mitigating Factors?
Nicholas claims that Ashmedai believes himself to be loyal to God and that he thinks he is doing the right thing, since he will punish sinners in ways God will not; however, in his personal interactions, there is no indication this loyalty is genuine.Verdict?
Tentative Contender.
But wait, there's more...
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Goku Black
Both A villains
Yes to Ashmedai.
Professor Gigachad
There was actually one other image I was able to find of the same villain this one
◊ but it has a watermark that is in the way and I can't find one without it.
Yes to Ashmedai. Yes to Aroon, too—you took a bullet there, Jackie.
Goku Black
Honestly I'm curious is On Deadly Ground. The only one of Seagal's films to not have a cm ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Ultimate Moral Compass
Reaffirming by for Sable.
Also for Ashmedai
Yeah, right in my ass.
No, there's a multitude of others I've sat through where the baddies don't keep. Some just aren't bad enough, there was one human trafficker who was cut last-minute due to showcasing some honor at the end, so on and so forth.
Beyond that, Seagal has literally made dozens of films of the same quality. I'm sure there's a lot more hiding down there, but I don't want to sift through his filmography and I'd encourage anyone looking to preserve their free time not to fish.
Professor Gigachad
Ok, I did a bit of digging that image is DragonLord stabbing that person in the back (who is named Essa) out of spite, not during a battle.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Ashmedai.
Scraggle, could you please write up Dean Light today or tomorrow? That way I can knock off both him and Ferguson together.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
For only $9.99, you get another effortpost in addition to the first one.
What is the work?
Night Moves is an Urban Fantasy Comic miniseries by IDW.
Chris Dundee is a hustler who finds himself working alongside Las Vegas Detective Alexis Rohm in a case concerning demonic possession and corruption.
Who is Tom "Tomcat" O'Reily and what has he done?
First mentioned as a Loan Shark who Dundee owes money, Tomcat abducts Dundee alongside Rohm and her partner Lucretius Jackson on behalf of Rutger Smalenski, a wealthy casino owner, and revealing that Tomcat himself murdered Dundee's acquaintance, Sophia Running-Bear.
When Dundee confronts him a year later, Tomcat taunts Dundee about Tomcat's new role as a security head and police officer after having him subdued.
When he reappears, Tomcat has a lackey kill and replace Ashmedai's previous host, puts Ashmedai's subsequent host into a coma, and begins his takeover of the Vegas mob.
To this end, the Babylon Casino is burned for insurance, anyone who tries to escape is shot and killed, occult temples and magic shops are dismantled, and open season is declared on Ashmedai's remaining followers.
Tomcat tries to have a former associate of Dundee bring Dundee and Rohm to him, but Rohm shoots the associate.
When Dundee finally meets up with Tomcat, he tries to have Dundee's face mutilated, only for Rohm to interfere, and for Dundee to put the knife in Tomcat's chest.
Heinousness?
Tomcat is a Loan Shark who starts out by killing an acquaintance of Dundee's, capturing Dundee alongside Rohm and her partner Jackson, handing them over to Smalenski/Ashmedai, having Ashmedai transferred between bodies (having the previous host killed in the process), putting the new host in a coma, having an undisclosed number of patrons of Babylon Casino killed when they try to escape (implied to be at least hundreds), burning Babylon Casino down for insurance money, dismantling occult temples and magic shops, attempting to murder Ashmedai's remaining followers when they are no longer needed, and trying to have Dundee's face disfigured in revenge for his own facial disfigurement.
Ashmedai has had hundreds of people abducted on a regular basis and subjects them to a loss of personality which leaves them shells of their former selves, eventually using them as cannon fodder. Ashmedai has also killed at least 50 members of a religious group opposing him, and displayed their heads in a pile, and at least 7 armed military people.
Rutger Smalenski is little more than a pawn for Ashmedai, and a host for his body.
Three priests misguidedly try to shoot up a bar as a means of opposing Ashmedai, but have a comparatively low body count and are well intentioned extremists who turn out to have correct suspicions about the bar in questions.
Of these candidates, only Ashmedai, who is a literal demon who can warp reality, compares.
Mitigating Factors?
Tomcat is a greedy and ambitious sociopath who will do anything for his own gain.
Verdict?
Tentative Contender.
...
Come to think of it, Dundee tells the main story as the story of how he alienated the woman he loved. How fitting.
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Evolution Requires Sacrifice.
to Malan, Magase, Aroon, and Ashmedai.
- Requiescant: Dean Light is Ferguson's hatchetman and second-in-command. A licentious, blond-haired sadist, Dean is the one behind the gatling gun when Ferguson orders a Mexican village massacred and the one holding back Ferguson's wife when he strangles her. Beyond this, Dean is a sex slaver and a Serial Rapist, lording over Ferguson's forced prostitution racket while Ferguson himself stays hands-off. Dean Light enjoys raping his prostitutes himself regularly, forcing Requiescant's step-sister to endure this treatment after he "won" her in a crooked deal.
Goku Black
Tomcat
As Texas faces its coldest temperatures in eons, I just want to say Happy Valentines day with a movie not about love but of hate. A really horrible movie with an unlikable star and questionable filmmaking.
Just want to give a thanks to Scrags for allowing me to cover this movie. Can't imagine why, though.
What Is the Work?
Attack Force is a 2006 direct to video movie starring everybody’s ““““““““““favorite”””””””””” actor Steven Seagal, in what’s often regarded as his worst movie. Yes, really.
Okay, history time. The movie was originally shot and written as Harvester, where Seagal’s character Marshall Lawson fought vampire space aliens. Once it was completed, the film suffered immense Executive Meddling when its production company decided to have it instead be about a deadly military drug called CTX that not only turns people into rabid killers, but also kills them if they overdose. A ton of scenes were reshot, none of which involved Seagal, so they had somebody else come in to dub over a majority of his dialogue to camouflage the change in story; and boy, is it painful obvious.
The movie was then released as Attack Force, and what we have is a film with terrible writing, dreadful pacing, fight scenes that you can’t fucking make out because of the shitty editing, and a plot that keeps shifting around all over the place.
Who Is He?
Aroon is the head of a biochemical research program, co-creator of the CTX drug, and owner of “the titty bar” who serves as the most prominent figure in the drug conspiracy.
What has he done?
Originally a soldier who was assigned to test the U.S. military’s CTX drug, Aroon used his own men as guinea pigs to test the drug’s capabilities, brushing aside their deaths rather easily before going AWOL to perfect the drug on his own. As owner of the titty bar, Aroon uses his psycho strippers to not only inject CTX into unassuming men and women, but to also kill them via overdose, which was the fate of three of Lawson’s men. He also has CTX introduced as a party drug, which leads to plenty more deaths.
After getting caught and questioned by some guy working with Lawson named Dixon, Aroon easily escapes after Dixon injects him with CTX as a poor attempt at interrogation, which grants him enough strength to break out (didn’t think that through, did you?), and later sends his totally not vampire strippers out to kill three of Detective Lambert’s men.
But Aroon’s biggest plan is to dump the CTX drug into a city’s water supply, which would infect over 15,000 people with the drug, leaving them either addicted or dead. After a long, boring time of Aroon’s henchmen killing people while high on CTX, Lawson decides to launch his Attack Force™ on Aroon’s hideout… a church that was totally not meant to originally be a vampire hideout, before he can launch his plan.
Aroon kills off Lawson’s squad, including his boring love interest/former conspirator Tia. Now finally up against Lawson for their eventual showdown, it turns into every single fucking Steven Seagal action scene from every single one of his fucking movies. Seagal easily kills him while taking no damage whatsoever, because stakes are too fucking hard when you have an ego the size of your waistline.
Sorry, got distracted there. Aroon dies from Lawson jamming his knife into his head with little complication whatsoever.
Redeeming Qualities?
None.
Heinousness?
There’s the military, who are apparently also behind the drug kinda, seeking to prevent Lawson from stopping its production so that they can use it for their own nefarious purposes. But they don’t do much else beyond being generic villains found in these types of direct to shiteo action movies; talking and empty threats that apparently the film’s budget couldn’t afford.
And then there’s Queen, the woman Aroon serves. Not only was it obvious she was meant to be the vampire alien leader carried over from the previous movie, all she does is fight Seagal’s character and (shockingly) lose without much of a challenge.
Aroon is far more involved in the plot than every other villain, especially since it was his idea to infect the water supply in the first place.
Conclusion
Fuck this movie so goddamn hard! Oh, and I guess Aroon’s a keeper, too.
"No running in the halls!"