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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

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Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#206776: Mar 24th 2020 at 10:25:25 AM

@ miraculous, I have not, I proposed Maestro in 2014, based on his appearance in Future Imperfect. There is likely a lot that can added to him.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#206777: Mar 24th 2020 at 11:09:28 AM

Here's the Joe stuff, to be submitted tomorrow:

  • Rodrigo Vargas is one of the candidates to become the next Cobra Commander, and a Mad Scientist to boot. A sadistically curious lunatic who is introduced covered in blood from an experiment, Vargas begins his campaign to become the new Commander by seemingly donating countless medicine to the city of Kariba, Zimbabwe, as an act of charity; in reality, Vargas has poisoned the medicine, infecting hundreds of thousands with a monstrous plague that drives them into bloodthirsty insanity. As Kariba turns into a war zone of infected citizens tearing the military and each other apart while the government firebombs it, Vargas, suspecting his girlfriend of being a counterintelligence agent, infects her with a brain-eating parasite that destroys her free will centers, before offering her the choice of killing herself, or letting the parasite continue its course and give her an agonizing death. Even when infected with his own virus, Vargas just laughs that there is no cure, bragging that he was planning on letting the virus spiral out of Kariba and kill millions as nothing but a "test" for it, after which he could target anywhere he wanted with a horrible, plague-induced death.
  • Blacklight is a Cobra sniper with a cold love of killing. Carrying out a bevy of assassinations on Cobra's orders, Blacklight, when sent to capture a scientist for his superiors, tricks a group of college students into being his bullet shields and kills a security guard to accomplish his goal. Later killing a large group of G.I. Joes but failing at his larger mission, Blacklight is left out in the cold by the Baroness for this failure, and instantly begins planning his return to Cobra. Blacklight travels across the world, completing his trip by threatening and murdering several people for their transportation, and tries to assassinate a traitorous Cobra agent before slaughtering a security patrol and destroying an entire building full of people. Blacklight's final appearances sees him plunge two G.I. Joes and their charge into complete darkness, Blacklight happily planning to kill them off one by one in darkness while he just smiles about it.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
therealjackieboy Carrot Clone from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Carrot Clone
#206779: Mar 24th 2020 at 11:24:51 AM

[tup] Mongul. Fun fact: Superman and Lois Lane in that game are voiced by Francis York Morgan and Emily Wyatt, respectively.

Here's the next Rainbow Six candidate.

What Is the Work?

Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Lockdown is a 2005 game that tried to bring more action to the series. Considered the nadir of the series due to its clumsy attempt at actionizing the series while trying to stray away from the more slow paced, tactical feel of the previous titles, it’s honestly not that bad a game. The sniping sections still suck though, no doubt about that.

A virus has been stolen from a black market laboratory in South Africa. The ones who stole this are Global Liberation Front (GLF), a global terrorist organization planning to use it for their own nefarious deeds. As per usual, it’s up to Rainbow Six to take out these dudes and save da world.

For this candidate, we’ll be taking a look at the console versions exclusively. Why the console version? Because the PC version has zero cutscenes. Like no shit, you kill the final boss, and the game just cuts to the credits. It’s that kind of port. Honestly, the PC version feels like a TV show, each level being a terrorist organization of the week for Rainbow to take down. The console version is more streamlined, and I think that’s for the best.

Who Is he?

Bastian Vanderwaal is the South African leader of GLF.

What has he done?

He starts the game raiding the South African tech company, LNR Anderson, having everybody inside murdered to steal their newly created nerve virus, Legion. Vanderwaal uses Legion on the scientists, causing them all to die painful deaths. Legion is a gas that will instantly kill upon infection, granting its hosts massive hemorrhaging and blisters on their skin. Satisfied with the results, Vanderwaal leaves the building with some Legion canisters, blowing the whole place up for good measure. With Legion in hand, Vanderwaal and the GLF proceed to use it for their own nefarious purposes, tinkering on it some more.

Launching/allowing a series of terrorist attacks from his own bases across the globe—including an attack on an anti-terrorist conference in Scotland with threats of hostage murder and bombings, and the taking over and attempted bombing of a ferryboat and its passengers led by GLF’s French cell division—he later has cell leader Derek Mergen shot once he offers Rainbow with helping them take down GLF, though he’s later sent to a hospital for interrogation. GLF later invade the hospital Mergen’s at to either take him back or silence him.

But all of this leads into Vanderwaal’s major plan, one he’s been planning for months. Vanderwaal and GLF attack the NATO Summit in Barcelona, taking intel director Bill Tawney hostage. Worse, Vanderwaal promises to inject each world leader there with Legion, making sure to broadcast the deaths as a way to horrify the world into submission. Making an escape after Rainbow stops his plan and seizes his castle base, Vanderwaal decides to dump the remaining Legion into the water supply of some major city in Europe, preparing to kill millions of people just to get back at Rainbow. When encountered by Rainbow leader Domingo Chavez for the final battle, Vanderwaal screams that he’ll see Chavez in Hell, and calls him a coward.

But he’s shot once by Chavez, and the day is saved.

Redeeming Qualities?

While GLF is claimed by John Clark to be an organization fighting for “a better life for everyone” and an end to military occupation by taking down the “developed nations,” Vanderwaal’s personality and actions show that he’s more concerned about causing havoc and killing people than actually helping others. He doesn’t even say anything about helping others, we the player are just told that. Even if he did care for people, he never shows it, and his plan to infect millions with his virus is nothing more than petty revenge for Rainbow ruining his plans.

Heinousness?

Definitely one of the more larger scale terrorist leaders, having a base of operation in every part of the world. He also has more of a personality than the other terrorist leaders in the franchise. Most other terrorist leaders in the series are mainly generic, lacking personality or even a face. Vanderwaal shows a clear personality in the beginning and ending.

Compared to other terrorist leaders throughout the series, Vanderwaal’s plans are really ruthless. While killer viruses aren’t new for this series (the first game had the bad guys making one, in the first Vegas game), Legion’s still a deadly disease that would have killed countless people, and his plan to kill millions at the end all by himself I think pushes him just enough into counting.

Compared to the PC version, where Vanderwaal’s just a last level villain who isn’t behind every attack, this version easily triumphs over that one in terms of heinousness.

Conclusion

I think he’s kind of a keep.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Mar 24th 2020 at 11:28:47 AM

"It doesn't matter anymore. You win. It is Duck Season."
therealjackieboy Carrot Clone from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Carrot Clone
#206781: Mar 24th 2020 at 11:33:58 AM

[up] Two left. Technically three, since one of them's a duo.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Mar 24th 2020 at 11:34:16 AM

"It doesn't matter anymore. You win. It is Duck Season."
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#206785: Mar 24th 2020 at 1:12:10 PM

[tup] to Mongul and Bastian Vanderwaal.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#206786: Mar 24th 2020 at 1:13:30 PM

[tup]Bastian

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
WaryHoglet Since: Feb, 2016
#206787: Mar 24th 2020 at 1:15:19 PM

Hey guys, I've just been busy because it's finals week at my college and because of the outbreak we're taking all our finals online. I appreciate people noticing my absence but I am fine and will start posting regularly in this thread again/finally do that Green Lady writeup in a few days once my finals are over.

VeryVileVillian (Apprentice)
#206788: Mar 24th 2020 at 1:16:12 PM

Here is the candidate, I'm surprised wasn't proposed before.

What's the Work?

Dracula Untold is 2014 film, which was supposed to start Universal's personal cinematic universe, but due to low reception and not as high box office success (it was still success, but probably not as big as Universal wanted) it was "separated" from Dark Universe. Movie retells the origin of Count Dracula, painting him more in sympathetic light to the point that he is basically an Anti-Hero. The movie depicts Prince of Wallachia becoming a vampire to protect his people from Turks, who want to invade and subjugate them. As he struggles with his thirst for blood (he was promised by the one, who turned him, that if he will not "feast" during three days, he will become human again), his chief nemesis in this movie and my candidate - Sultan Mehmed II.

Who is Sultan Mehmed II?

A son of the first Mehmed, who terrorized Wallachia before, Mehmed II liked his father's practice of taking thousand of Wallachia's boys and putting them through Training from Hell, torturing many, until they are nothing but his loyal soldiers and "murder machines". One of those boys was Vlad, who would later kill thousands of people to drive off Turks from his lands.

Growing up, after his father stopped his horrible conscription practice and died, Mehmed II become the new Sultan and sended his messenger to a peaceful Wallachia, during the celebration, to demand a thousand of new boys from them, intending to turn them into his own personal soldiers through horrid torture and training.

Vlad tries to appease him, when he ride to his camp, but Mehmed II only mocks him and announce that he will take Vlad's son as well.

When Vlad refused to let Mehmed's II men to take his son in their place of meeting and killed them, Mehmed sended his army to massacre Wallachia's population, children included (aside from Vlad's son, whom Mehmed wanted to keep as a "prize"). Vlad made a deal with an Elder Vampire, who turned him to give him powers for 3 days, but warned that if he ever drinks blood during these 3 days, he will become a blood thirsty beast forever. Vlad repeatedly curbstombs Mehmed's II army, although they did manage to attack his people during the day (right before sun was set), as they travel to another place, and massacre some, before Vlad stopped them.

After getting a report from the survivors, Mehmed II has his army blindfolded and orders them to march on Vlad and his people, as Vlad tears apart part of his army, it was revealed that Mehmed II has few of his men infiltrate Vlad's keep and slaughter all population of Wallachia there, leading to a death of Vlad's wife and then Turks kidnapping his son.

Furious and grieving Vlad drinks the blood of his wife and turns all killed population of Wallachia into the vampires, and then he leads them to attack Mehmed's II army.

As his army getting massacred and drained of blood, Mehmed II hides in his tent and has its floor covered in silver coins, knowing that its vampires' weakness. There he battles Vlad, who now became Dracula, and mocks him and tries to have Vlad's son watch as he murder his father. Vlad manages to overpower his weakness and kill Mehmed II and drain him as well.

The movie ends with Vlad killing his vampire horde, after they reveal their intention of killing his son and hunt humans, by revealing the sun (which he hid with his magic before), which burned him as well, only for his crazy human self-appointed servant to resurrect him with his blood.

Heinousness

Heinous standard is quite high. Vlad himself is told to have murdered thousands of innocents to save more (as he said "I murdered one, so that 10 could live") during the war with Turks (but even this is mitigated, as this was only because of Vlad's brutal torture at the hands of the Turks turned him into a "murder machine"), Elder Vampire killed dozens in his cave, and Mehmed's father was the one, who started this practice of torturing thousand boys into becoming his soldiers, but Mehmed stands out being a bigger presence, who led the events of the movie, being the reason why Vlad became Dracula. He eagerly wants to continue his father's practice (which his father is told to have cancelled several years before the movie) of torturing thousands of pre-teen boys into becoming his "perfect soldiers" and decided to take Vlad's son simply to Kick the Dog. His massacre of Wallachia's population adds him a giant bodycount, which included many children and his willingness to send many of his men to be slaughtered simply as distraction to Vlad (his final plan, where he succeeds to massacre Wallachia) adds to his cruelty.

Mitigating Factors

None. He only speak of his father, when he talks about the whole practice business (of torturous training of thousand boys), never once having any other word to say about him, showing off that he doesn't care. Despite being labeled a GDV, Mehmed II have enough personality through the movie, with several dialogues and clear goal of "wanting more soldiers" and to control Wallachia.

Conclusion

What do you say?

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 24th 2020 at 11:21:06 AM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#206789: Mar 24th 2020 at 1:19:31 PM

Sure to Mehmed. Saw that movie a few times and thought he was too generic, but looking over the EP, he does enough.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#206792: Mar 24th 2020 at 1:38:53 PM

No to Mehmed, in addition to Dracula crushing him by decimating absolutely everything to do with him, there’s the fact that the big part of his villainy (demanding boys for his army) is just him extending the same policy of his father, making him fail to even stand out in uniqueness.

Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#206793: Mar 24th 2020 at 1:48:25 PM

[tup] to Mehemed.

I geniunly forgot about the "massacred Wallachias population" thing.

I found the movie underrated, I feel it would be great if only they had the guts to pull a Protagonist Journey to Villain story instead of a cliche "he was actually a misunderstood hero" one.

Edited by Kylotrope on Mar 23rd 2020 at 10:52:06 PM

Things are really about to get Fun around here
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#206794: Mar 24th 2020 at 1:53:54 PM

Yeah, saying no to Mehdmed. He comes off as a completely generic conqueror, and I think the EP, having seen the movie, is vastly overstating how bad he is, especially when Dracula's vampire army sadistically butchers Mehmed's entire legion and intends on massacring its way through Wallachia while demanding to be allowed to eat Dracula's son.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#206795: Mar 24th 2020 at 1:55:03 PM

I will downvote Mehmed. Doesn't strike me at too heinous.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#206796: Mar 24th 2020 at 1:57:24 PM

Does killing the villains minions contribute to the standard?

Things are really about to get Fun around here
VeryVileVillian (Apprentice)
#206797: Mar 24th 2020 at 1:59:17 PM

[up][up][up]Well, they were all slaughtered by Mehmed's army and thus his actions led to this in the first place. Dracula becoming the vampire and creating other vampires happen because of him.

And i don't see how i overestimated his deeds, when i mentioned all of them, like slaughter of population and intending torture of the children.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 24th 2020 at 12:00:52 PM

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#206798: Mar 24th 2020 at 2:01:53 PM

Alright, I'll flip to a no; I guess my original judgment was correct.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#206799: Mar 24th 2020 at 2:02:41 PM

By 'torture', we mean...training them into being his soldiers?

And we see how horrific the vampire attack is. By that same token, Dracula turns them into monsters, damning their souls to make them bloodthirsty killers. Dracula, incidentally, who impaled thousands, a far more torturous death than Mehmed was responsible for. and no, Mehmed never intends Vlad to literally form a vampire army. His actions lead to it, but that's not the same thing.

He's a prick but he lacks the oomph for a 15th century conqueror for me

Edited by Lightysnake on Mar 24th 2020 at 2:06:01 AM

VeryVileVillian (Apprentice)
#206800: Mar 24th 2020 at 2:03:25 PM

[up][up][up][up]It does now apparently.

Ok. I won't fight over this case anyway. Not keep he is then.

[up]We see the boys whipped and the brutal training. So it is shown to be quite horrid.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 24th 2020 at 12:05:09 PM


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