During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Isaac
Gentle Laborer
Barkov, Kingsley, Judd, Narcissa, Isaac.
No, Mew, the quotes simply don't fit this trope as well as you think... ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Cross-wired freak
We've explained why, as clearly as possible. They don't fully indicate the depravity needed for this trope
Listen to my podcast
Barkov, Kingsley, Judd, Narcissa, Isaac.
Having seen clips of Doom Patrol, Mr. Nobody is FAR from an CM, so yeah, someone should take care of that pothole.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Nov 8th 2019 at 12:23:02 PM
HELL to Commander Judd.
You're missing my point library, I think they do, again, they oozee Amadeus being a monster.
Gentle Laborer
Mew... We already came to a conclusion, they don't count.
It's fine to disagree, but we go on democratic solutions here.
Fine, but I would like to point out that only 2 other people voted.
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
Isaac
Cross-wired freak
Official to the quotes, then
The Draftsman of Doom
The reason the quotes do not fit, Mew, is that they do not fully address the other criteria for a Complete Monster quote. They do not sufficiently explain the specifics of how the character being addressed/mentioned surpasses others in depravity, lacks remorse, stifles their capacity for altruistic behaviour, and where applicable, how their depravity far exceeds any past trauma they have experienced.
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Goku Black
Kingsley, Judd, Narcissa, Isaac
I'll get the next guy up in a bit.
I'll also have one dude from kelly armstrong book I read too. Serial Killer who plans to corrupt his kids into killers like him and even sneers and calls them failures when they turn out to be genuinely good. Total sociopath.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Judd. Also opinion time about Handmaid: the book was better, more complex and nuanced, while tv show was way too over-the-top black and white, especially season 2. mod note: Not the time or place. Removed sentence.
And Narcissa, Kingsley, and Isaac.
Edited by nombretomado on Nov 8th 2019 at 1:34:31 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
to Barkov, Kingsley, Judd, Narcissa and Isaac
Gentle Laborer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
N, you can argue about that topic somewhere else, but not here, that's pure Flame Bait.
Goku Black
Anyway from Midnight in Death.
Who is David Palmer ?
An mad scscientist obessed with understanding pain and how the body reacts to it. Plus to get his own thrill out of it.
Palmer kidnaps people only for the real horror begins. Palmer then hangs them and beats and burns them. Then he breaks their feet then hands. He then has electrodes that when attached to different parts of the body, or placed in various orifices, administered graduating levels of electric shock. Basically Palmer will then torture his victims till their nearly dead then electroshock torture then tk revive then. Rinse and repeat. One of his victims lasted three days of this....
Anyway after he'd killed 8 people. Palmer was arrested by eve after his ninth potential victim escaped. Escaping from his offworld penal colony he was sent to to serve his life sentence. He begins murdering all the the people who sent him to prions. Beginning with the judge and then moving into the witness and his laywer. Torturing and breaking them with his awful MO and sending a mocking message to Eve.
Anyway palmer kidnaps Eve's friend Mira and has her put in g is electroshock cage where he says he'll torture her to death if she doesn't come and face him.
Anyway Eve tempts him with the idea of using her instead. Dude practically salivates at the idea of breaking his record as she said last weeks. I mean he's a socpjotah but the idea of an even more tempting offer was too much. As he's about to make the exchance, Eve revelas she'd prepared in advance and uses her gun to cause him to plumnet into his own electoshock cage which Jed activated in preparation for her. Killing him.
Freudian Excuse
Nah no fe in site.
- “In some ways he remains the exception to a great many rules. He had a loving and advantaged childhood. Neither of his parents exhibits any signs of emotional or psychological defects. He did well in school, more of an overachiever than under-, but nothing off the scale. Testing showed no brain deformities, no physical abnormalities. There is no psychological or physiological root for his condition.”
- “He likes it,” Eve said briefly. “Sometimes evil’s its own root.”
- “I want to disagree,” Mira murmured. “The reasons, the whys of abnormal behavior are important to me. But I have no reasons, no whys, for David Palmer.”
Other redeeming qualities
Nope his parents care about him but they admitg he's a monster and are terrified of him and are legit scare he'd hurt them. There's no indication he cares about them back. He never even acknowledges them in the book.
'Heinous standard ?'
Tricker as the standard is fierce. But you know what double digits aren't super common in this 50 book series. Palmer has nearly a dozen and 4 more planned. That and his slow method of murder where He intentionally breaks and keeps his victims alive for as long as possible is really really bad even for this series. The electric torture is unique too.
Conclusion?
What say you ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Draftsman of Doom
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And a yes to Palmer. If he'd merely killed them, he'd likely not count, but his method makes him a keeper, by thismuch.
Also, it's weird to be upvoting David Palmer.
Edited by ACW on Nov 8th 2019 at 4:31:55 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Gentle Laborer
Dave Palmer.
I thought sharks were my friends.
Yay to Palmer. Nay to the quotes. Please try to calm down, Mew.
RIP KissAnime.
"The Juice is Loose."
I just noticed that the Doom Patrol WMG page calls Mr. Nobody a Complete Monster, which I'm pretty sure he isn't...