During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes the Skeksis were once the urSkeks, powerful beings who wanted to use the Dark Crystal to destroy their dark sides and live as immortal purely good creatures, but instead they were split into the evil Skeksis and the peaceful Uru. The Skeksis are the evil parts of the urSkeks. Heck when a Skeksis dies, his Uru counterpart dies with him. Gelflings and Podlings are capable of moral agency, but I am not sure any of them will be villains in this franchise.
Also, I wonder if Gmork from Never Ending Story could count. He only appears in 2 scenes and only tries to kill the main hero, but why he is doing it is pretty bad. The main hero, Atreyu, is tasked with stopping the Nothing, an Eldritch Abomination that is destroying the world of Fantasia, Gmork wants to kill Atreyu to stop him from defeating the Nothing, wanting the Nothing to destroy Fantasia so people in the real world lose hope and Gmork can control them.
Edited by Overlord on Aug 24th 2019 at 11:20:07 AM
Lizzid people!
I'd say give it a shot myself.
Goku Black
Well I just put up a guy who tried to sabotage an attempt to stop a genocide so I'd say go ahead with him.
Trying to prevent something like that from being stopped is just as bad IMO as actively trying to do it yourself.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
I say go ahead.
Edited by Bullman on Aug 24th 2019 at 11:51:21 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Just dropping to say that I removed my reservation for the second season of Krypton because I won't be able to catch up with the last episodes before the discussion date. I allow anyone to bring the update if they want to.
Doctor Raymond Price from The Knife (Fear Street #14) by R. L. Stine
Who They Are: Doctor Raymond Price is the administrator of Shadyside General, and a human trafficker who steals babies and young children from out of state so that he can sell them on the black market to the highest bidders with the help of his partner, Mrs. Deane. While Price makes arrangements with potential buyers, Mrs. Deane looks after the kidnapped children, who she is prone to abusing verbally and physically, not that Price seems to care. The duo's latest abductees are three year-old twin brothers named Toby and Terry. When Toby develops pneumonia, Price and Mrs. Deane reluctantly check him into Shadyside General.
What They Do: A hospital volunteer named Laurie Masters, who Price has known for years, meets and befriends Toby, and realizes that something is wrong when, as he is being checked out, Toby manages to tell Laurie that Mrs. Deane is not his mother. When Laurie, under the pretense of selling raffle tickets, later visits the Deanes in their decrepit mansion on Fear Street, she and her friend Skye are unnerved to see Mrs. Deane scream at and treat Toby (actually Terry, who Laurie notes is worryingly pale and thin) roughly.
A nurse named Edith Wilton somehow finds out about Price's child trafficking operation, and after she confronts him about it, he stabs her in the throat with a scalpel. Before Price can sneak Wilton's body out of the hospital, it is glimpsed by Laurie. Price dumps Wilton's body and her car in a ravine, doctors paperwork to make it look like she went on a three-week long vacation, and disposes of Toby's files.
While spying on the Deane house, Laurie observes who she thinks is a crying Toby (actually Terry) being sold to a man and a woman, while another child (Toby) sobs hysterically deeper in the house. When Laurie returns home, Price, driving his stepson's car, breaks into her house, but before he can do anything, he is scared off by the sounds of Laurie's aunt and adoptive mother, Hillary, returning home. The next day, Laurie visits Price, who feigns being oblivious to everything that she tells him, offering Laurie a bunch of false reassurances. After leaving the Price residence, Laurie spots Toby in the parking lot of the Division Street Mall, but before she can approach him, Mrs. Deane notices her, and drives off after throwing Toby into her car. When Laurie calls the Deane house afterward, Mrs. Deane tells her to leave her and Toby alone right before Laurie overhears Mrs. Deane hitting a crying Toby.
Laurie rushes over to the Deane house and breaks into it, but is caught by Mrs. Deane. After tying up Laurie, Mrs. Deane calls Price, and tells him to come over and kill Laurie after he finds and murders Laurie's Aunt Hillary (who, as Shadyside General's financial adviser, is gradually beginning to notice that Price is laundering his ill-gotten gains through the hospital). Toby finds and releases Laurie, and the two escape as Toby explains that it was brother, Terry, who Laurie saw being taken away earlier.
Laurie drives to the hospital, where her aunt is, and leaves Toby with a member of the staff as she looks for Hillary and whoever is out to kill her. Thinking that a fellow student volunteer named Rick Spencer (who has also been investigating Mrs. Deane, because she and Price abducted and sold his younger sister, Beth) is Mrs. Deane's accomplice, Laurie ducks into the under-construction Franklin Fear Wing of the hospital, pursued by Rick and Price. Rick and Price get into a fight, and when Laurie sides with Rick after hearing what he has to say, Price pulls out the pistol that he was going to use to kill Laurie and Hillary, and prepares to gun down the former and Rick. While holding Laurie, Price ends up backing into a hole in the unfinished floor, and dies from the fall as Rick saves Laurie. Mrs. Deane is subsequently arrested, and the police begin a nationwide search for all of the children that she and Price stole and sold, like Terry and Beth.
Heinousness: He worked with Mrs. Deane, but was clearly the brains of the duo; he didn't appear to care that Mrs. Deane mistreated and smacked around the children that they stole, and in the end he turned out to be worse than her in that he was perfectly willing to murder anyone who got in his way while she was not (when Price asks Mrs. Deane why she does not just kill Laurie herself, Deane yells back, "this is more than I signed on for").
He committed only one known murder, but tried to commit at least three others, and the fact that he was a child and baby trafficker certainly gave him a leg up in the vile human being department.
Mitigating Factors: He and Mrs. Deane brought Toby to the hospital when he got sick, but it was probably only because a dead child is worthless. He had a stepson named Andy, but the two had next to no interaction whatsoever with each other, and Price never displays any noticeable affection or fondness for him during the story.
Yes to Price.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
"While holding Laurie, Price ends up backing into a hole in the unfinished floor, and dies from the fall as Rick saves Laurie."
What a moron. Yes to him though. Is Stine gonna be the first creator with TWO works that will end up having their own pages?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
price
@aww: Well there is a 100 odd books. Plus new ones are still being realised.
For example this year had the realse of you may now kill the bride.
Edited by miraculous on Aug 24th 2019 at 11:00:11 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I thought sharks were my friends.
Sure to Price.
RIP KissAnime.
@ACW what if we just made a page for R.L Stine, with both Goosebumps & Fear Street on the page, similar with the Stephen King page
Edited by JustSomeMouse on Aug 24th 2019 at 11:24:42 AM
to everyone I missed
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
All of King's works are in a Shared Universe; don't know if that applies here.
Goku Black
Its more of a shared multiverse actually.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Santoro, Merek, Price
RL has a lot more CMs than I recalled. Again, I only read through some of the Goosebumps book and most of, if not all of, Fear Street Seniors.
Edited by TBNY on Aug 24th 2019 at 3:21:01 PM
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Sure to Captain Robert E. Walton, Ah Puch, Mrs. Davidson, Ted Radford, Sian, Zhou, Santoro, Bathory, Walter Marek and Doctor Raymond Price.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Aug 24th 2019 at 9:23:08 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Everyone I missed
to Doctor Raymond Price (I'm tempted to vote for Mrs. Deane as well, her reason not kill sounds more personal unwillingness rather than any real moral standing, but I trust your judgement).
I have to admit I'm really enjoying all these Fear Street candidates, and considering how long the series is, I imagine their are still a few to come Sircray.
Santoro, Merek, Price, and Sain
to Sain, Zhou, Santoro, Bathory, Marek and Price.
Sain, Zhou, Santoro, Bathory, Marek and Price
I have a suggestion for a CM, but there's an issue.
It's a fanfic Complete Monster. My fanfic, that is: Megami no Hanabira. I'm fairly sure the Big Bad counts, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to do that.
Skekis are Made of Evil or something right ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."