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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#158151: Apr 15th 2019 at 8:22:26 AM

I'm back with some more Shaw Brothers goodness for yah, and this time it's a duology.

What Is the Work?

The Black Magic duology is a series of urban fantasy films produced by the Shaw Brothers centered about, well, black magic. They contain cool spells, Shaw Brothers silliness, and enough breast milk to make Takashi Miike blush.

The first movie came out in 1975 and it’s plot is basically about an evil shaman who goes around harming people with his magic in order to make money. There’s a love triangle here, but it really doesn’t matter.

Who Is he?

Shian Jianmi, described as an “evil devil”, is a sly shaman-for-hire who will happily ruin one’s life under one’s orders… as long as they have the money of course.

What has he done?

Shian is first introduced killing a cheating husband and his lover on the orders of a wife. The wife pays him half of what he’s supposed to get, and Shian orders her to pay the other half tomorrow. Shian performs the ritual and murders them both by sticking a lot of pins in their voodoo dolls’, causing them to slowly bleed to death and suffer immense amount of pain. When a good shaman named Fu Long discovers the bodies the next morning, he performs an incantation spell that would destroy Shian once and for all. Shian notices because of all the fart gas entering his house, and tries to make an escape. When the wife from earlier arrives with the remaining fortune, Shian ties her up to the house’s centerpole, takes her money, and leaves her to die in the crumbling house when his attempts to counterattack the gas fail.

Cut to “contemporary” 1975 Hong Kong. A guy named Lang Jiajie heads to Shian’s shack in the woods in order to get a woman named Luo Yin to fall in love with him. On his way there he drinks coconut milk (this will become important, I swear). Shian tells Lang that in order to make a love potion, he’ll need hair from Luo Yin and her muddy footprints. Shian makes the spell for Lang, and it works… for a night, where it immediately wears off the next morning; Shian did this on purpose, knowing that Lang wasn’t going to pay him. Lang arrives at Shian’s place pissed, but Shian still expects his fee. Since Lang doesn’t have any money to give him, Shian tells Lang that he placed a curse onto him. Remember that coconut he drank earlier? Well, that coconut was filled with a magic poison that will kill Lang in 3 days unless he doesn’t give Shian his money.

Shian then heads to Yin’s place (because she’s filthy rich) and offers her the love spell in exchange for $100,000. Also, he’s shown to have a set of human teeth and a finger on him to be used for the spell; don’t know where he got those. So she gets the potion made because she wants to be with Xu Nuo, but then Lang comes in to beg to Shian to spare him. Shian tells him to GTFO and uses a voodoo doll to kill him; once he’s dead, Lang’s body immediately decomposes. So Xu drinks the love potion, and on his wedding night, he suddenly views everyone as an ugly monster except for Yin, so he ends up dumping his fiancé and gets together with Yin. Shian later takes orders from Yin to kill Quiming, Xu’s fiancé, a task which he happily adheres to. So Shian has a dog scratch Quiming to get a blood sample. One night, Shian gives Yin some flowers he was growing, which makes her see him as a handsome young man that forces her to have sex with. Because of Shian’s magic, Quiming later grows magical worms underneath her skin that will kill her in 3 days, though she is later cured by Fu Long.

Shian is later attacked by Fu after the latter cures Xu of his love spell, and runs away to the construction site where Xu works at. Shian places Xu in a trance that has him violently attack his construction workers. Xu is then beaten by the police and placed in a hospital. Once Xu is cured of his control, Shian shows up as a janitor and pours magic powder into Xu’s orange juice that makes him go back to Yin’s place. So in a string of events, Yin and brainwashed Xu try to leave the country, Fu tries to stop Shian, Shian hops in Yin and Xu’s car to escape Fu, and Xu decides to head to the construction site to get away from everyone. There, Shian controls Xu and tries to have him walk off some steel girders that will lead to his death. A shaman duel ensues between Fu and Shian, where Shian essentially uses a magnifying glass to burn Fu, but when that fails, he uses a head that shoots laser in an attempt to kill not only Fu, but also Xu. However, Fu gets the upper hand and pretty much has him burned to death via cartoony lightning.

Redeeming Qualities?

None.

Heinousness?

Easily the worst person in the movie. While Shian is just hired help, he’s still a sadistic Psycho for Hire willing to have people suffer, killed, and their love lives ruined all for profit, and will happily dispose of those who refuse to pay him on time.

Conclusion

I think he’s a tentative keep.

Edited by therealjackieboy on Apr 15th 2019 at 8:29:08 AM

"No running in the halls!"
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#158152: Apr 15th 2019 at 8:26:12 AM

Alright, now...a full EP for reevaluation:

What's the work?

Sherlock Holmes is a 2009 film by Guy Ritchie, starring Robert Downey Junior and Jude Law as the famed detective Sherlock Holmes and his stalwart companion Dr. Watson respectively. At the film's opening, Holmes busts a dark occult ritual led by Lord Henry Blackwood, where he is attempting to sacrifice a young woman for occult power as he has done to others before her. Defeated, Blackwood is taken in to custody, tried for murder and hanged by the neck until dead...but then? His tomb is broken from without, Blackwood is seen prowling London and mysterious murders begin...Holmes races to solve the case and perhaps save London itself, while unraveling the mystery...now, then...

Who is Lord Henry Blackwood?

A member of an occultist sect known as the Temple of the Four Orders feared for dark powers, Blackwood was conceived by its leader Thomas Rotheram with a woman not his wife in a ritual. Blackwood's mother did not survive the birth and Blackwood was raised elsewhere, becoming a lord in his own right...however? Blackwood became a serial killer, murdering women in occult rituals to increase his own power, or so it seemed.

In truth, Blackwood has no magic powers and instead relies on the fear of it to conduct his business. After butchering four innocent girls, Holmes catches him about to do the same to a fifth, where 'the devil is owed a soul.' Blackwood uses a combination of drugs and a rigged rope to fake his death, and has his followers rig things do it appears he returns from the dead and rises from the grave. Emerging, Blackwood has another order member named Reordan murdered and buried in his own coffin. Desiring to take over the British Empire, Blackwood opts to clean house in the Temple of the Four Orders. First? He targets his own father in a seemingly black magic attack...in truth, he finds a substance that activates when water touches copper, cooking his father alive in his own bathtub, arriving to remove his father's ring to seize control of the house. Intending on purging the rest who are disloyal, he has his father's closest supporter, US Ambassador Standish, doused in a flammable liquid disguised as rain...when Standish attempts to shoot Blackwood at the Temple, the substance ignites, agonizingly burning Standish to death, appearing for all the world like magic.

Blackwood has his loyalist followers in Parliament given an antidote...intending on gassing the entire chambers. The entire world will see the Houses of Commons and Lords agonizingly drop dead while Blackwood's followers are unharmed, Blackwood using fear to rule the British empire...and then? He'll just start a war to reclaim America and any other lost holding. Holmes, however, on the case? Rushes to deal with Blackwood, foiling his scheme and battling him on top of the Tower Bridge. Holmes tells Blackwood he'd best hope the rituals were nothing more than superstition because the devil is owed a soul if they aren't...Holmes declares he will expose Blackwood as the fraud he is and see him hanged properly...Blackwood? Attempts one final attack, falling off the bridge into a mass of chains below. One wraps around his neck and as he falls? The chain pulls tight....hanging him from the bridge at last.

Heinous standard?

Okay, so it was only briefly Blackwood was disqualified, and it'd been years since I'd seen the movie but...Blackwood holds up far better to Moriarty than I remember. Moriarty kills numerous people, tries to start WW 1 for profit and tortures Holmes quite brutally, but Blackwood? Blackwood's kills are more hands on and more brutal. Moriarty will have you shot from a distance. Blackwood, to increase the fear of his name, burns a man to death, has another throttled, and cooks his father alive in a bathtub. Also? He murders 4 young women in occult rituals, which Moriarty never does...and it's revealed he killed 'many more' who aren't public knowledge/....while he plans to start a war, while it isn't WW 1, it's still brutal enough and trying to kill all of Parliament with cyanide gas is just horrific. SO yeah, honestly? Blackwood is, for the start of the films, perfectly fine and isn't overshadowed by Moriarty to the degrees needed to be disqualified from this trope. His actions are heinous as hell and treated as such.

Mitigating Q Ualitie?

None. Blackwood is devoid of human feeling or compassion. No abuse, no excuse...he's illegitimate, but his father's never shown to mistreat him. In fact, his father, Lord Thomas, is terrified of him and Blackwood's only interaction with him is murdering him and relieving him of his family ring. And also, not even religion justifies Blackwood with the reveal he's a power hungry fraud, and nothing more.

Conclusion?

Honestly, I think he slipped by us on unconvincing arguments based on the early days. Now that I've rewatched it? I think I feel very comfortable with a yes.

Libraryseraph Showtime! from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Showtime!
#158153: Apr 15th 2019 at 8:27:46 AM

[tup] to Burke, [tdown] to Gus, tentative [tup] on Shian since while he does everything under orders, his sadism seems all his own

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Libraryseraph Showtime! from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Showtime!
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from NYPD (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#158158: Apr 15th 2019 at 8:42:37 AM

[tup] to Shian and Blackwood

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 15th 2019 at 11:44:27 AM

Feels good, don't it?
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#158159: Apr 15th 2019 at 8:49:36 AM

[tup]Shian and Blackwood.

Why so serious?
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#158160: Apr 15th 2019 at 8:51:52 AM

[tup]Shian and Blackwood.

Fun Fact. Ive only watched the second film. So didnt know about this guy completely.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#158161: Apr 15th 2019 at 8:53:10 AM

Sure to Shian. How does the Big Bad of the second film compare?

If it were JUST the murders, and even the gassing, as bad as they are, I'm not sure Blackwood would be bad enough compared to Moriarty. Considering he ALSO plans to start a war? I'll lean yes.

Looks like he's the third CM for Mark Strong.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#158162: Apr 15th 2019 at 8:54:42 AM

Sure to Shian and Blackwood

Anyways, expect an EP soon since Jackie greenlight it to me.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#158163: Apr 15th 2019 at 8:59:33 AM

What Is the Work?

Black Magic 2 (otherwise known as Gou hun jiang tou) is… I guess a sequel to the first Black Magic movie that came out in 1976. Both have the same director, a few cast members, and the same rules that apply to the magic, but this one has a completely different set of characters and a new villain, and it makes no references to the previous film, so I guess it’s more of a thematic sequel if anything. So I see it as taking place in its own separate universe.

Three doctors—one a spiritual one, the other two medical ones—must uncover a strange case of disappearances and freaky tumors across Hong Kong. Of course given that this is a fantasy horror film, there is but one cause to all of this: Black Magic (2). And who’s behind this wicked sorcery?

Who Is he?

Kang Cong is an evil shaman who partakes in black magic to fuel his own needs. While Shian was more of a for-hire kind of shaman, Kang, while willing to accept money for murdering others, isn’t primarily focused on cash.

What has he done?

Because conducting magic takes off 5 years of his life, Kang goes around brainwashing several women into following him back to his mansion and making him his sex slaves. Kang uses these women to (I’m not joking) feed off of their breast milk every day because doing so will grant him eternal life and negate the effects of the magic. He’s practically 80 by the time the movie’s started. Kang is also a necromancer, as he has several corpses resurrected to serve as his henchmen, keeping them under control by hammering nails into their heads that make them come alive; he also uses these zombies as bait, such as a night club singer who lures male customers to Kang’s schemes so that he can make them pay to sleep with her despite the fact that her true form is that of a 98-year-old decaying corpse. If one is to cross him, Kang will give them incurable tumors (called the “Great Venom Poison Spell”).

Having a fascination with Margaret, Kang seduces her with blood magic and has her follow him back to his mansion, crafting a drink for her (that included some of Margaret’s vagina hair, ugh) that makes her breasts ready and willing to shoot out milk, before having sex with the mind-controlled Margaret. Afterwards, Kang sends Margaret back home, but this time impregnated with a deformed baby that had to be removed via a C-Section. A man named Zhang Danian goes to Kang’s mansion to request he do make the night club singer (who is a zombie working for Kang) his lover. Kang makes Zhang sweat, then takes his handkerchief so that he can use his sweat to keep him under his thumb, before granting him his wish, though Zhang still had to pay him $5,000. So while Zhang’s having sex with the night club singer, she immediately decays into a haggard corpse. Pissed, Zhang heads back to Kang to request a refund, but leaves empty handed after telling Kang that he’ll reveal to everyone his secret powers. Not a good idea to tell that to a sorcerer who has your DNA. Kang uses Zhang’s sweat and clay voodoo doll to kill Zhang, having his skin melt off and his fingernails rip off (with crappy special effects), before punctuating his brain with a pin and having his body decompose in public. According to Zhenshing, this same thing has already killed 10 people before the start of the movie.

Realizing that there is magic at play, Zhenshing heads over to Kang’s mansion and gets him to put a spell on Cuiling as a way to prove to her that magic is real, but not before Kang has his cat claw Zhenshing’s skin in order to get a DNA sample from him. So while Cuiling and Zhenshing are being brainwashed into having sex with each other, Kang’s busy having sex with Margaret. But when Margaret’s voodoo doll is accidentally burned by a lit candle that badly scars her, Margaret snaps out of Kang’s spell and runs away. Outside, Zhenshing, having also snapped out of his brainwashing, meets up with Margaret, his true love. Kang then dips both Zhenshing and Margaret’s voodoo dolls into a cauldron of boiling acid, killing them both. Kang has their bodies taken in to be part of his zombie henchmen. Luring Cuiling to his mansion, Zhonping tries to stop her, but thankfully, a good shaman (who looks like Albert Einstein) arrives to cure Cuiling. Unfortunately for Albert, Kang manages to fatally wound him while the two were having a spell duel.

Zhonping, after rescuing Cuiling and swallowing Albert’s eyes in order to see through Kang’s spells (don’t ask), decides to go after Kang. He’s attacked by his zombie kung fu bodyguards, and Kang makes an escape. Now going to kill him for reals, Kang, sensing Zhonping’s presence, awakens his zombies and unleashes them onto Zhonping and Cuiling. Cuiling is captured by the zombies and Kang orders them to pretty much do whatever they want with her. Meanwhile, Zhonping manages to kill Zhengshing and Margaret’s zombie forms and burn a couple of zombies via accidentally melting some voodoo dolls. Kang notices his burning army and chooses to run away and leave them to burn. Of course this ends up burning his entire mansion. He puts on his gear and tries to kill Zhonping himself with his magic ring… until Zhonping pulls out his magic ambulant he received from Albert. Kang’s skin melts for a bit, and the two do some kung fu fighting in the burning lobby. Grabbing Zhonping’s ambulant, Kang puts a death spell onto Zhonping. Cuiling escapes the mansion with an ax, and when she notices Kang pointing his ring at Zhonping, she chops off Kang’s hand, and Zhonping uses his ambulant to cause Kang’s sking to melt and for him to decay.

Redeeming Qualities?

None. He has a cat, but his relationship with it is just like Blofeld’s.

Heinousness?

While I think he’s more evil than Shian from the previous movie, this one has nothing to do with the original, so I consider the two movies to be separate from another.

Conclusion

Easy keeper. This will be the fourth CM played by the late great Lieh Lo.

"No running in the halls!"
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#158164: Apr 15th 2019 at 9:01:05 AM

Someone really should make a list of What Took So Long Candidates because ladies and gentlemen, we got another winner.

I wondered if being conceived during a ritual maybe had something to do with how he turned out, but probably not. Yeah, it’s the quality of his killings that make him still stand in comparison to Moriarty as being awful enough in a different way. I thought Jared Harris was good as Moriarty, but he didn’t have the kick that Mark Strong did in this film and my God do I wish Mark Strong had played him instead! With all that, I have no trouble whatsoever in saying [tup] to Blackwood.

Also Lighty, he killed five girls, not four. I’ve seen both these movies and Young Sherlock Holmes ten times each and probably seen The Great Mouse Detective more times than I can count.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#158165: Apr 15th 2019 at 9:05:08 AM

[tup]kang

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#158167: Apr 15th 2019 at 9:12:02 AM

[tup] to Shian, Blackwood and Kang.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#158168: Apr 15th 2019 at 9:15:40 AM

Oh, well, there it is [lol]

Yes to Kang. Who were the others played by that actor?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#158169: Apr 15th 2019 at 9:17:56 AM

[up] General Tien Ta from The 36th Chamber of Shaolin, Priest White Lotus from Fists of the White Lotus, and Chao Chun-Fang from last week's Human Lanterns

"No running in the halls!"
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#158170: Apr 15th 2019 at 9:22:52 AM

[tup] Burke.

[tup] Shian.

[tup] Lord Blackwood.

[tup] Kang Cong.

Edited by Beast on Apr 15th 2019 at 11:23:41 AM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from NYPD (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#158171: Apr 15th 2019 at 9:32:11 AM

Yes to Kang.

I have put off this effortpost too long...

What's the work?

As stated in my other 2 effortposts regarding this game, Thing-Thing is a franchise of online side-scroller run and gun games created by Diseased Productions hosted on the Crazy Monkey Games Website. The story opens with an artificially produced organism, known only as Project 154, killing a scientist who is experimenting on him, and proceeding to slaughter anyone in the laboratory, or outside it, who gets in his way.

In the third game, 154 is contacted by an anonymous individual, who convinces 154 to meet him a the edge of Sunset City, a residential area for Systems Corp. As is expected, 154 makes short work of the Systems Corp. workers. However, this contact turns out not to be so friendly.

Who is Project 153, and what does he do?

Project 153 is the predecessor to project 154, a Gamma Class Bio-Weapon created to pilot complex machinery. Having endangered the lives of the numerous employees by contacting 154, 153 reveals that he wants to personally kill 154 so he can prove his superiority.

When 154 defeats 153, 153 collapses the floor beneath the former, sending him to a containment chamber, and pitting him up against more mercenaries, eventually pitting 154 against the bio-weapon Vahl Dreig, a discarded prototype. When 154 defeats Vahl Dreig, 153 taunts the former with the notion of leaving him to rot.

Eventually, 153 reappears after 154 escapes the holding cell, having shot his way past many more mercenaries, who are eventually revealed to answer to 153. Rather than just shoot 154, 153 expresses fascination towards 154's capabilities, before ordering the other mercenries to kill him. When this fails, 153 and 154 duel to the death, with 154 winning.

Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors

Other than presumably being subjected to the same tortures as 154, no FE is given in universe for Project 153. He is driven by pride and one hell of an Inferiority Superiority Complex, but is otherwise not at all sympathetic.

Heinous Standard

As stated previously, the setting is ostensibly one of the biggest Crapsack worlds in flash gaming. Pretty much everyone in the setting could be considered a villain, making this a case of Lawful Evil vs. Chaotic Evil.

Project 153 is way worse than 154, if only because he endangers his mercenaries before trying to kill 154 himself. While he does not have the resources of the CEO, and does not necessarily surpass him, he endangers the mercenaries' lives more directly, and all so he can kill 154 for the grievous crime of making him feel inferior.

Final Verdict

I'm leaving it up to you.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 15th 2019 at 12:48:28 PM

Feels good, don't it?
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#158172: Apr 15th 2019 at 9:39:37 AM

I wondered about why Moriarty's entry wasn't in the S section on the Film page and I figured out that it was listed on the Sherlock Holmes page.

I also wonder if the Rathe/Ethar Moriarty and this Moriarty were the same individual if they would still count. The world may never know.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Apr 15th 2019 at 9:44:44 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from NYPD (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#158173: Apr 15th 2019 at 9:47:21 AM

Future, do you wish to weigh in on 153?

Feels good, don't it?
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#158174: Apr 15th 2019 at 9:49:57 AM

[tup] Shian, Blackwood, and Kang. [tdown] to 153, I'm really not seeing what makes him stand out other than having Mooks he doesn't care about.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from NYPD (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#158175: Apr 15th 2019 at 9:53:29 AM

Unlike the CEO, 153 fully expects these mooks to die, and yet puts them in the line of fire so that he can fight 154 himself. He goes out of his way to endanger their lives, just so he can try to take down 154.

But yes, he still pales in comparison to the CEO.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 15th 2019 at 12:54:40 PM

Feels good, don't it?

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