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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#154551: Mar 16th 2019 at 2:56:01 AM

It depends on if it's like Lisseth where what he's planning goes WAY beyond any Freudian Excuse.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Kylotrope Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it) from Honolulu Hawaii Since: Apr, 2018
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
#154552: Mar 16th 2019 at 3:04:59 AM

If they Don't Explain why he was Cast out, and he's evil. While it isn't stated the Implication seems to be that he was kicked out for being a Fallen Angel.

Things are really about to get Fun around here
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#154553: Mar 16th 2019 at 4:55:46 AM

[tup] All the candidates I've missed.

"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#154554: Mar 16th 2019 at 6:23:30 AM

Alright, here's the EP on the Witch Hunter Robin candidates. Fair warning that just like my Brumeia and Sauber EP, they will be merged altogether because why not:

What's the Work

Witch Hunter Robin is a 26 Episode Anime. The story? I'll just copy this from Wikipedia:

"Robin Sena is a "craft user", born in Japan and raised by the Roman Catholic Church in Italy. She is trained to use her craft of fire to hunt down witches. Witchcraft is a genetic trait, dormant within a number of individuals within the human population. Powers can be "awakened" in these dormant human "seeds" at any time, which seems to also drive the awakened witch into various forms of homicidal madness or sociopathy. Trained hunters, craft-users or "seeds" themselves that have not become full witches, are needed to keep watch over "seeds" and hunt those whose abilities become active, serving in secret organizations, such as the parent branch "Solomon" and the "STN-J" branch in Japan, as self-appointed witch police to curtail the use of witchcraft in society, and to keep the witch kind a secret from the public. Even the police, who cooperate with STN-J in abnormal criminal cases, do not know what STN-J does.

The series begins when Robin arrives in Japan to gain information for Solomon headquarters about a fabled item that holds the "secrets of the craft," while acting undercover as a new hunter to the STN-J in their efforts to capture witches.

"Orbo" is a green liquid that negates witch abilities. STN-J's hunters carry small vials of it on necklaces in the shape of a cross as a form of protection against their targets' craft. Hunters also carry air pistols which fire darts or pellets of Orbo that dampen witch powers when it enters the bloodstream of the target witch. Hunters who are craft-users or seeds can use Orbo without ill effects, although their own powers are reportedly diminished while using it. Robin, a craft-user herself, declines to use Orbo because she feels it is "disgusting".

As the series goes on, Robin grows increasingly uncomfortable with her role in hunting and capturing other witches. She begins to question the treatment they receive while incarcerated in the mysterious "Factory". After the discovery of "secrets of the craft," she is entrapped and attacked twice by "witch bullets". Subsequently, the STN-J is attacked, presumably for "secrets of the craft," although the Solomon attack was carried out to find what Zaizen, the director of the STN-J, was planning.

Robin begins to worry that she will become a target and grows to suspect that her partner Amon will hunt her. Eventually, Robin does become a target of Solomon and labeled a witch, becoming "hunted". In the end, Robin finds out more about her craft and that of witches than she knew at the beginning.

Initially, the series appears to take a "monster of the week" approach. About halfway through the 26-episode season, the characters and the relationships between them are established and the main plot gets underway."

Now, previously, I said that the Big Bad Zaizen doesn't count but there are two one shot characters I want to discuss right now even if I'm unsure on both of them. Now our first candidate here came from Episode 9 where Robin and co. tries to hunt a witch that confess on trying to murder three people. Initially, they appeared to be innocent because why not but as the episode progressed? Both three of them hide a very dark secret and the leader of them all? Is a politician named Seiichiro Aramune and he's the guy I will be E Ping right now

Who is He/What Has He Done

Alright, so our buddy here Aramune, is a seemingly "innocent" politician who tries to become one of the governors in Japan by doing some election and is actually the boss of the two people that this witch in the episode killed. What did this "innocent" man do to deserve this EP and is he truly innocent?

Ha! You're bet you ass he is. See, here's the thing about Aramune. In the past, he used to have a non-profit organization/a volunteer group by building a rehabilitation for victims of domestic violence. But in reality? It's just to cover up for something worse.

And here's the thing: The Witch who targetted Aramune and his partners in crime is actually revealed to be one of the kids who was put in the Rehabilitation Center named Aki Yoshioka along with her sister, Saki. And it turns out that said Rehabilitation Center? Was actually a place for organ trafficking ring Aramune runs and when Aki calls Aramune about this because of her friends who started acting strange, Aramune attempts to justified himself by trying to make them better as Aki said: "Hiroshi and Suzu were fine. But they've been acting funny ever since they were taken away to the overseas hospital" and when Aki tries to prevent them, it was heavily implied that she was murdered by Aramune and his cronies.

Fast forward to the present, Aramune now becomes a drunk man who becomes a lot paranoid when seeing the visions of Aki because of Saki trying to avenge the death of her sister and as a result, Aramune runs into an abandoned building to save his ass but he ended up getting burned by Saki, killing the slimy politician for all.

Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors

None that given honestly... Okay, there's an issue with Aramune actually and it's Offscreen Villainy. Well, we don't see how the kids were treated but we see through point of view of Aki that her friends were acting strange after they come back from overseas hospital for some operation but Aramune doesn't care about it. That and we actually saw the heroes trying to hack the file regarding the deceased kids who were put in Aramune's care and the Yoshioka's sister are one of them.

We also got some other scenes like one of the Yoshioka's sisters in the present day trying to summon the dead sister and it was heavily implied that Aramune murdered her when the latter tries to expose Aramune's shady schemes behind the scenes... I'm not sure it's enough but considering Aramune's trafficking ring is the reason why one of the Yoshioka's sisters trying to murder Aramune and his cohorts? Yeah... Oh! And his relationship with his cohorts is nothing there so you're safe.

Now before going to the heinous standard of the show, I think I'm cool with jumping to the second candidate first and this one comes from earlier episodes

Who is He/What Has He Done

Like I said earlier, our candidate here comes from earlier episodes and he is actually the Witch that Robin and co tries to hunt in Episode 3 and his name is Kazuma Kurata. See, here's the thing about Kurata... It's revealed that he's actually a witch who tries to drain other people's life and said other people were revealed to be witches with his ability by sending some bugs on them which resulted on said other people getting their body shriveled into dust.

In the present day, he did this MO to a person who is running away in a highway named Haruo Katayama and he did this MO again with other two people in different location. What's his motivation you may ask? He actually wants to prolong his life for more than a hundred years and it's also revealed that he also did the same M Os with the other 3 people for more than 200 years in different countries and it was also revealed that he attempts to hack the STN-J computer to gain more information of the Witches.

When cornered by Robin's companions in an abandoned building, Kurata tries to murder them with his locusts but runs away due to Robin accidentally creating an explosion. Fortunately, Robin and his team were able to find Kurata's whereabouts in a nearby cabin lake and tries to corner him. And when his wrinkles comes back, he then tries to drain another person's immortality before being defeated by Robin which resulted on him being turned into an old man and after being turned into the Factory, his body ended up getting shriveled into dust so yep...

Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors

The only thing that I can think of is that he is a married man and has a wife. That and I'm not sure if self-preservation is a mitigating factor. And yes, while he does have a wife, he doesn't care that much with her while trying to prolong his own life by murdering witches left and right while she was left in a nursing home, dying in her deathbed from an old age and when his wife died, he doesn't come into her funeral while Kurata tries to enjoy life to the fullest by staying young forever.

As for motivations... Yea, he does it for self-preservation but I'm not sure if it's mitigating since he left his wife for dead while he himself trying to enjoy becoming an immortal and also, as far as his character goes? Kurata actually doesn't speak that much and has two lines but he does support a grinning expression when the mother luck is on his side so I'm not sure if one expression could be enough to qualify as a CM but eh... You can say that actions speak louder than words and he does have a motivation on why he killed his victims so that should getting Kurama out from becoming a GDV.

Oh! And while the ones that were encountered by Robin and co. are evil witches, in later episodes however, there are some witches that are capable of doing good deeds and some of them were just wanted to be leaved alone. That and in the last episodes where Robin is revealed to be a witch herself and she does met with a morally gray witch who is the only survivor of the Salem Witch Trials, agency's no issue here.

Heinous Standard

Alright, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. In the show, it's revealed that around 9 million witches were executed especially not the ones who were executed by STN-J. That and we also see the flashbacks regarding Salem Trials in which the witch that Robin encountered were a survivor of. Oh! And Zaizen also set the show standard pretty high with his M Os by trying to create a tool called the Orbo from the drained fluids of the witch that Robin and co. has captured and plans to use it on human beings to hunt more witches and he's revealed to be a Knight Templar at the end. But like I said, he doesn't count due to his care of his daughter.

But? For one shot villains, I'm going to give both Aramune and Kurata a bit of a leeway considered the former had a unique niche of being an Organ Trafficker and the latter have a pretty high bodycount compared to other witches who usually racks 2-3 victims combined with a pretty nasty MO that he inflicted towards his victims so yeah... I'm torn on this one.

Final Verdict

In the end, I'm not sure on Aramune due to potential offscreen issues but it does have a bit of impact and what he does is the reason why the conflict in Episode 9 existed in the first place but I'm still unsure on him. But for Kurata I'll give a bit of a slight yea. It's okay if you downvoted these two which is understandable. But until then, thoughts?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
#154555: Mar 16th 2019 at 8:16:31 AM

Slight yes to Kurata. Abstain on Aramune however.

Edited by Bullman on Mar 16th 2019 at 10:39:14 AM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#154557: Mar 16th 2019 at 9:18:32 AM

I'll read the effortposts later, but a few housecleaning items:

  • I'm calling Expendables 4 and the all-female version if they ever get released.
    • I also gotta see the original again to de-pothole Munroe (if he is in fact heinous enough for an action villain).
  • Has anyone see the Death Race prequels? This was on the work page:
  • The Prequel movies also retroactively show that she had some amount of Small Name, Big Ego-she says on the first movie that she was the creator of Death Race, but in reality it was the MegaCorp she works for, and they knew she would take credit around anybody who could buy it.

Niles York may be worth a look.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#154558: Mar 16th 2019 at 9:20:08 AM

Eh, throw it on my to-do. Sorry I've been slacking of late

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#154559: Mar 16th 2019 at 9:22:49 AM

@Lightysnake Eh it's okay, people sometimes slack cuz of real life reasons. :P

Also, like I said in P Ms... Calling Fire Force, Dorohedoro and Beastars with you and possibly Dr. Stone (This wasn't in P Ms tho) but the latter two I can take it or leave it wink

Anyways, I'll be patiently waiting for votes after a bit of a drought :3

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Mar 16th 2019 at 11:23:49 PM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
VeryVileVillian (Apprentice)
#154561: Mar 16th 2019 at 9:36:30 AM

Okay, on Rainbow Brite. I know i alredy rewrote this, but after watching the episode, which set after the movie, where the Dark Princess appeared, i propose to cut last line from the writeup, which describes her actions in that episode, as they are portrayed as very generic villany, especially compared to what she was doing in the movie.

Basically i want to change writeup from this:

Rainbow Brite and the Star Stealer: The Dark Princess is the most petty and vile enemy that Rainbow Brite ever encountered. Motivated solely by greed, the Dark Princess enslaved innocent races to tow the diamond planet Spectra out of its foundation to her castle. Despite having been informed that this may cause entire universe to be starved of light and freeze, ensuring trillions of deaths, the Dark Princess still continues with her plan. When she was foiled, she attempts to ram her ship into Spectra and shatter it out of spite. When she returned, she enslaved a peaceful race of sprites and attempted to turn Rainbow Brite into a crystal.

To this:

Rainbow Brite and the Star Stealer: The Dark Princess is the most petty and vile enemy that Rainbow Brite ever encountered. Motivated solely by greed, the Dark Princess enslaved innocent races to tow the diamond planet Spectra out of its foundation to her castle. Despite having been informed that this may cause entire universe to be starved of light and freeze, ensuring trillions of deaths, the Dark Princess still continues with her plan. When she was foiled, she attempts to ram her ship into Spectra and shatter it out of spite.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#154562: Mar 16th 2019 at 10:41:36 AM

Alright, I've been in a dry spell in terms of effortposts... so I'm gonna clear off one Lighty and I have decided deserves a relitigation.

What's the setting?

An American Tail, the 1986 outing from my idol Don Bluth in conjunction with producer Steven Spielberg and the highest-grossing animated film ever when it was first released, is a classic of 80s animation. Our premise? Jewish mouse family, the Mousekewitzes, leave from their home of Russia to the golden land of America after their home is destroyed in a pogrom by cats. All the immigrants on the boat headed to America have one major expectation; there are no cats in America. The streets are paved with cheese, and they'll have everything they need and want in the land of opportunity. Unfortunately, the youngest of the Mousekewitzes, Fievel, ends up swept overboard and separated from his family, where he discovers the hard truth: there are indeed cats in America.

Our Big Bad? Warren T. Cat.

Who is Warren? What has he done?

A sleazy, greedy conman under the name of "Warren T. Rat" when Fievel first meets him, Warren is secretly a diminutive cat and a mob boss, the leader of a gang of cats called the Mott Street Maulers who dresses up as a rat to secure the trust of the mice he extorts. Warren, when he's introduced? Has a financial problem; he's fifty cents shorter than he was yesterday in terms of profits. So, when naive little Fievel wanders into his clutches and puts his full trust in Warren when he asks "where's my family?" Warren happily leads him into the clutches of his friend Moe, the owner of a child sweatshop. Warren tosses Fievel to Moe into practical enslavement, quipping "you don't need a family anymore, kid—you got a job!" This? Indicated to be semi-regular behavior with him.

Warren, as you may have picked up, is entirely focused on profit. Warren's placed a protection racket over the downtrodden mice of New York, playing the part of a good Samaritan keeping the Maulers away, all in exchange the right price, of course. The Maulers kill a mouse every once in a while so the mice don't get complacent, while Warren lavishes with the money he's terrorized out of them. Eventually, Fievel finds out the truth about Warren, and in the film's climax, Warren and the other Maulers pursue Fievel up to the safe house where all the mice he extorts have had enough. Exposed as a cat, the mice resolve Warren won't ever get a cent out of them again. Warren? Decides to cut his losses, strikes a match, and tries to burn them all alive, setting fire to the building with all the dozens of mice still inside while chuckling his smug ass off. Thankfully, the mice have prepared for this, and they narrowly manage to get their secret weapon out, a (notoriously terrifying) machine they call the "Giant Mouse of Minsk" that drive away the cats all the way off the pier where they're marooned on a boat en route to Hong Kong. Adios, Warren.

Any mitigating factors?

So, my friend Lighty effortposted Warren some years ago and he was voted down, if I recall, or at least the votes were too tied up for a conclusion. Looking back, most of the arguments were... faulty. Never mind the ones from myself. In retrospective? I don't think there's as much concerning with Warren as we've thought.

So, the two big ones: is Warren treated seriously enough for the trope, and is he bad enough? I'd say yes and yes. Warren's got comedic moments—he fancies himself a Wicked Cultured-type, but can't play the violin worth crap ("when the boss plays, it's culture") and he misquotes Shakespeare—and he's played a bit more like Honest John than, say, the Coachman. My rebuttal to that? When Warren is actually up and committing the atrocities he does, he is played entirely seriously. The attacks of the Maulers? Luring and selling Fievel to a sweatshop? Trying to burn out the mice? There's not a laugh during these scenes. They're some of the biggest sources of Nightmare Fuel in what's already an infamously dark movie and it gives a chance to show Warren's even nastier than the cats from the opening (pointedly, the attacks by the Maulers reuse animation from the pogrom attacks at the beginning, and they're played as just as awful).

The only big thing to note is that Warren... gets off kind of lightly when all's said and done, with him and the Maulers sent off on a boat to Hong Kong where Warren tells his gang to cheer up: China's got lots of mice, after all. I don't necessarily think that's enough to cut him on his own, though; throughout the rest of the film, Warren and the threat he poses to the mice is a very genuine, serious one, and the occasional funny moments he and the cats get never really undercuts that to the point where he's more of a caricature than a threat.

As for the standard? I think Warren cuts it for his own movie; exploiting the trust of kids to send them into 1880s-era sweatshops for some cheap money is a notable Kick the Dog moments, the stuff with the Maulers brings him up more, but Warren clears the standard by the time he opts to simply burn alive the mice he's extorting—dozens of them, down to the kids, I should note—because they won't pony up to him anymore.

Now, I myself brought up the sequels might complicate him (the villains in the second and fourth movies are each aiming for a mass murder plot as well, and the third movie has pretty awful corrupt cops and factory owners) but not only do I feel Warren distinguishes himself via his awfully petty motive? The sequels also have a weird case of Canon Discontinuity with each other; the events of the second one are rendered as All Just a Dream by the third one, the fourth one has nothing to do with anything, and the whole flow of canonicity between them is enormously inconsistent. Warren's the first, the nastiest, and he's treated the most seriously (the villain of the fourth is a fucking joke even in spite of a plot that's nasty on paper) so I think he more than stands out in that regard.

Aside from that? Zip. I think those refutations essentially cover everything that was brought up against Warren in the past, many of which weren't even accurate back in the day.

Conclusion?

I say? Keep him. There's not as much against Warren as I've always remembered there being in reevaluation, and Lighty's backed me up all the way.

Thoughts?

Edited by Scraggle on Mar 16th 2019 at 11:43:38 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#154564: Mar 16th 2019 at 10:43:48 AM

[tup] Warren.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
therealjackieboy Ultimate Moral Compass from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Ultimate Moral Compass
#154565: Mar 16th 2019 at 10:45:55 AM

[tup] Warren. The only Golden Age Bluth film I have yet to see.

Also [tup] for Witch Hunter duo

Edited by therealjackieboy on Mar 16th 2019 at 10:49:52 AM

"No running in the halls!"
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#154566: Mar 16th 2019 at 10:45:57 AM

So anyone want to judge my EP?

Yes to Warren btw

Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Mar 17th 2019 at 12:46:15 AM

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#154567: Mar 16th 2019 at 10:47:21 AM

[tup]Warren

Update on the Vandal Savage ep. I've finshed 28 appearnces from him out of his 69 at the momemt. Including the entire of Demon Knights

Edited by miraculous on Mar 16th 2019 at 10:50:39 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Michealthehero21 Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#154568: Mar 16th 2019 at 10:50:47 AM

[tup] Aramune, Kurata, and Warren T. Cat.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#154569: Mar 16th 2019 at 10:54:01 AM

[tup] Warren.

That's another for the pile of those who didn't count four or five years ago but do now that we got a revisit. This may become a trend this year. (There's two more from that era I'm considering revisiting myself, thing is I don't remember the arguments agaisnt one or think of new ones for the other).

[tup] Aramune and [tup]Kurata.

Edited by Beast on Mar 16th 2019 at 12:55:33 PM

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
VeryVileVillian (Apprentice)
#154570: Mar 16th 2019 at 10:54:44 AM

[tup]Warren, Aramune and Kurata.

Edited by VeryVileVillian on Mar 16th 2019 at 9:01:40 PM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#154571: Mar 16th 2019 at 10:59:11 AM

[tup] Ashberry, Kurata and Warren. Tentative [tup] to Aramune.

Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#154573: Mar 16th 2019 at 11:05:06 AM

[tup] to Ashberry, Kurata, Aramune and Warren.

erazor0707 The Unknown Unknown from The Infinitude of Meh Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Unknown Unknown
#154574: Mar 16th 2019 at 11:09:42 AM

[tup] Ashberry, Warren, Aramune, and Kurata.

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#154575: Mar 16th 2019 at 11:22:58 AM

Alright, here's a novel trilogy that I was aware of for a while, but only recently bothered to look into. And it's given us a surefire keep.

What's the Work?

The Elemental Trilogy, by Sherry Thomas, is a YA High Fantasy trilogy centered around Iolanthe Seabourne, a young, but immensely powerful elemental mage who is forced into hiding when her powers are revealed. Taking refuge at Eton College, posing as a boy named Archer Fairfax, Iolanthe is taken under the wing of Prince Titus, Master of the Domain, as he prepares her for her battle against the most powerful tyrant the mage world has ever known...

Who Is He?

The Bane, the Big Bad of the trilogy, is the Lord High Commander of Atlantis, and by extension, the rest of the mage world. Under the guise of a benevolent dictator, the mysterious ruler of Atlantis hides several dark secrets, particularly regarding his apparent immortality.

What Does He Do?

Born long ago in Atlantis, at that point a poor kingdom on the brink of ruin, the man who would be known as the Bane was merely a mage named Pyrrhos Plouton, afflicted with a deadly illness. Desperate to save himself, Pyrrhos resorted to using taboo sacrificial magic, killing his closest friend to extend his life. Changing his name to Palaemon Zephyrus, he founded the Zephyrus clan, and decades later, his great-grandson Delius, a seemingly unremarkable boy, suddenly made something of himself and rallied his kinsfolk to overthrow the warlords ruling Atlantis, ultimately taking power and transforming the poor country into the centerpiece of the mage world. To be more clear, Palaemon body-jacked his great-grandson and used him to take power (which won't be a one-time event...)

Alas, sacrificial magic doesn't last forever, and as the years went by, Palaemon's descendants had a habit of meeting....unfortunate ends. First, his two children were mysteriously killed by a giant serpent (hmmmm....). Then, his nine-year-old granddaughter was swept away in a flash flood (HMMMMM...). And every time a family member vanished, Palaemon would lose a body part. Throughout all this, however, Palaemon was living an unusually long life for a mage, reaching over 90 years old (most mages die in their sixties). Eventually, to prevent suspicion, Palaemon faked his death, with the only witness being his nephew....who mysteriously died in his sleep soon afterwards.

Now known as the Bane, Palaemon would continue to rule over Atlantis for over two centuries. To extend his life, the Bane regularly seeks out young elemental mages, the ones with the highest power, and sacrifices them. However, this comes with a cost: for each sacrifice, he must give up a part of his own body, and eventually, it became so irreparably mangled that the Bane was forced to use 'spares': seeking out people who resembled him and bodyjacking them, while keeping his original body in a heavily guarded crypt within his fortress; if his original body were to be destroyed, the Bane would die.

At some point prior to the events of the novel, a rebellion attempted to overthrow the Bane in what became known as the January Uprising. Among the ringleaders of the rebellion was Prince Titus' mother, Ariadne, who had also foresaw Iolanthe's role in defeating the Bane. Though he was occasionally 'killed' during the rebellion, the Bane would simply come back in another 'spare' body, and eventually, Baron Wintervale, one of the leaders of the rebellion, cowardly sold out Ariadne to save his own life, resulting in her death. This left Titus both determined to kill the Bane and to mentor Iolanthe, confident in his mother's visions.

In the present, after Iolanthe summons a lightning bolt, thereby exposing herself as an elemental mage, the Bane becomes hellbent on capturing her and sacrificing her. For much of the first novel, the Bane sends his acolyte, the Inquisitor, to deal with Iolanthe and Titus; however, after she is nearly killed, the Bane himself arrives at the Citadel, and the two pursue Titus through the Crucible (a virtual reality-like magic book). Before they can reach him, however, Iolanthe summons a lightning bolt, killing the Inquisitor and seemingly the Bane as well....only for him to return to Atlantis soon afterwards, alive and well in another body.

Despite this, the Bane's near-death encourages some dormant rebellions to reveal themselves, though they are readily squashed. In the following book, the Bane returns once more, this time bodyjacking Iolanthe and Titus' friend Wintervale (Baron Wintervale's son). He again pursues them in the Crucible, and in the confrontation that ensues, Wintervale is killed, forcing the Bane's consciousness out of him.

In the final book, Iolanthe and Titus are leading a full-on rebellion against the Bane. During a confrontation in the sahara against the Bane's forces, Titus reveals their leader's use of sacrificial magic. To prevent the truth from reaching Atlantis, the Bane massacres hundreds of his own wyvern riders and armored chariots with a wave of the hand. He then follows this up by ordering a massacre in a settlement in the Kalahari Realm, slaughtering at least half of its twenty thousand inhabitants, with twenty-five percent of the rest not expected to last more than a few days, with the survivors afflicted with long-term damage, including blindness, lesions on internal organs, and accumulations of fluids in the lungs so they exist in a constant state of near drowning. The Bane sends a warning that the same fate with befall the inhabitants of the Domain unless Titus hands over Iolanthe.

Titus, Iolanthe, and a small band of allies manage to sneak into Atlantis to destroy the Bane's original body, but Titus and Amara, disguised as Iolanthe, are captured by the Bane, who is now inhabiting the body of Titus' father. The Bane prepares to sacrifice what he thinks of Iolanthe, expressing his intent to use several of Titus' body parts as well ("How would you like to be known as the Eunuch Prince?"). Upon learning that it is not Iolanthe, however, the Bane kills Amara and starts torturing Titus in a rage. Iolanthe and Kashkari intervene, however, only to be trapped in a containment cell. However, when it proves incapable of holding Iolanthe, the Bane resorts to carving Titus up with his wand to keep her at bay. However, Titus' father's subconscious emerges and manages to temporarily regain control of his body, long enough for Iolanthe to disable him and the Bane's other 'spare' body. With all his spares rendered useless, the Bane's mind is forced back into his original, mangled body. Despite his defenses, however, the group manages to overwhelm them, and Kashkari disconnects the Bane's head from his body with a simple spell, killing the Bane once and for all.

Mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?

No. Nothing about the Bane's backstory of being afflicted with a deadly illness is portrayed sympathetically; on the contrary, it's actually used to show how cowardly and self-serving he is, that he knows first-hand how horrible it is to be on the brink of death, yet couldn't care less about inflicting the fate on countless others. It's explicitly stated how the Bane's humanity extends only to himself, and he couldn't give a damn about anyone else, including his family; Titus actually questions the Bane on if he felt anything when he sacrificed his descendants, including his young granddaughter, and the Bane is totally unfazed.

Heinousness

For the first two books, the Bane is admittedly rather tame, only really targeting the main leads. Iolanthe even lampshades this at the beginning of the last book, noting how up until his point, it seemed as if she and her loved ones were the only ones at stake.

In the third book, however, the Bane's true monstrosity is unveiled, with him callously slaughtering hundreds of his own loyal soldiers solely to prevent the truth from reaching Atlantis, massacring thousands of civilians simply as a warning to the Domain, and the reveal that he sacrificed his entire family to prolong his life (I should also note that sacrificial magic is taboo because of how horrifically agonizing it is for the victim, and the Bane explicitly states that he prefers that the victim be conscious throughout so the sacrifice is more potent...yeah).

Final Verdict?

Keep him.

Why so serious?

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