During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
The MILF Virus
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It's more of a spin-off. Takes place in a whole different setting.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
True.
Anyways, Newt... Mind if I add other Phantasy Star games on my to do list including the anime ones? Been putting that on my to do list and I forgot to list the franchise btw. It will be a doozy.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Nov 29th 2018 at 9:22:43 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Kum Khan
The MILF Virus
Go right ahead, only did this guy because I played it a long time ago and I just recently remembered him when checking the list of games I've finished.
Apologies for disappearing off the radar just before doing my Khashoggi write-up. He was barely voted enough, but he was upvoted, so here we are.
- We Will Rock You: High Commander Khashoggi is the top enforcer of the Killer Queen's forces of the Globalsoft corporation. Forcing Globalsoft's will upon the world with an iron fist, Khashoggi tracks down the base of the Bohemians, and ruthlessly murders their top member. Upon capturing the Bohemians, he brutally interrogates them, and, when he does not get what he wants out of them, he "brain-drains" them all, sadistcially killing them with Electric Torture.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Alright, that makes sense.
Also, anyone want to judge in on BB?
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Albino, Hensley, and Kumhan.
Albino, Hensley, and Kunham
On The Arkn Mythos, ACW/Tropers added the Character "Deebo" (a deity in the Mythos) as a CM example. That's all well and good...except none of the actions he described were carried out by Deebo. They were carried out by The Carver, a completely different character; he created his entry based on two-year-old, outdated information.
Do I have permission to fix it?
Edited by JadeEyes1 on Nov 29th 2018 at 9:42:53 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Sure to the last three proposals.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Oh, updated info. You know, better do a EP on the Carver and post it right here first before editing anything.
Thanks for telling us!
Edited by KazuyaProta on Nov 29th 2018 at 9:59:49 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Who proposed the Arkn candidates initially?
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Let's have him bring some clarity to this.
I think it was. I spoke to DeathlyLogic, and he remembered giving him permission to list the characters as "Complete Monsters"...in December of last year. (And even then, the info was horribly out of date.)
I agree with The Hooks Killer and Elias Exodus being Complete Monsters; not so much he third entry. Even with the correct character's name attributed to the actions, The Carver isn't a Complete Monster; at the most, he was Necessarily Evil. At his creation, he recognized that the gods were evil, so he devised a plan to be raised up to godhood himself — so that he would have the power to create a new universe, where the gods had no power and life could thrive without them. For his plan to come to fruition, he was forced to take on the role of a monstrous, Card-Carrying Villain. (According to DL, he didn't even enjoy his most heinous acts.)
Come to think of it, I'm not even sure if Deebo fits the bill. He's described as an unambiguously evil Top God, but for a guy who's supposed to be the most evil being in existence, he doesn't really do much (save for the very end of the Myth Arc). He mostly just sits back lazily and watches a brutal war play out. Sure, he's a dick, but he doesn't do much that could be considered monstrous.
Edited by JadeEyes1 on Nov 29th 2018 at 10:24:25 AM
Hmm. I'd vouch to cut Deebo's entry entirely then unless we get a good counterargument.
My second Mark of the Devil post? Lord High Executioner Cumberland himself.
Who is Lord Cumberland? What has he done?
The mentor of Christian and a renowned, deeply feared witch-finder for his ways, Cumberland is a deeply pious man who sees it as his duty to exterminate all "witches" through Europe in the name of God, teaching Christian in his ways. Cumberland rides across Europe, torturing confessions out of countless accused behind him before having them executed. When he arrives in the unnamed village Albino currently rules over as witch-finder, Cumberland immediately supersedes Albino in authority and initially seems to be a much fairer man than Albino, letting a woman previous accused by Albino because the charge isn't sufficient.
...then we get to his second victim, a young blonde woman who was raped by the Lord Bishop, who accidentally reminds Cumberland that he's impotent. In a fit of Tranquil Fury, Cumberland orders her to be interrogated for a confession he knows will be false. Cumberland isn't any less shallow or hypocritical than Albino... he's just a lot better at convincing himself he's on the side of God. Cumberland takes over all of Albino's duties as witch-finder, ramping up even more horrible torture — mutilation, dismemberment, burning, streching, lashes, you name it — and even reprimands a guard for trying to give a torture victim water. One of his victims, the young Duke Daumer? His sole offense is trying to protest against the Church for seizing his inheritance, so Cumberland has him accused of being possessed by the Devil and has him subjected to agonizing torture over a period of days. Oh, and that woman who was raped by the Bishop? Cumberland pounds on her for a confession when none such exists, eventually ordering her tongue ripped out in frustration and having her burned alive afterwards.
When Albino tries to blackmail Cumberland and reminds him of his sexual frustration, Cumberland strangles him to death, as mentioned... and he hits his ultimate low when he has a family of four, a mother, father and two children brought into his custody for the heinous crime of putting on puppet shows. Cumberland knows they're innocent and tells Christian such, but orders them indicted anyways with the excuse of "not showing weakness." Cumberland has the father driven to madness through the Chinese water drop torture technique, and baits the mother with a plate of food and some wine... before he rapes her himself, any masquerade of piety dying, and setting her and her two children for execution. When Christian finally has enough of his madness, Cumberland tries to have him executed as well without a flicker of remorse, and when he's informed the townspeople are rising up to storm the castle and kill him, Cumberland decides to run... but not before ordering his soldiers to ride out into town and murder every last man, woman and child out of spite.
And rather infuriatingly? Cumberland's personal guard is killed, but Cumberland himself escapes the clutches of the townsfolk and rides out. Christian? Is tortured to death in his place.
I love happy endings.
Any mitigating factors?
Zip. Any potential good qualities for Cumberland are extinguished one after another as the film goes on. Seemingly being concerned with due process, genuine indictment and confession? Cumberland gets increasingly less concerned with that and eventually starts convicting people he knows are innocent. Raising Christian practically as his own son? Null and void when he tries to have Christian killed the moment he reneges. Even apprehending Albino for murdering the innocent? The film makes an implicit point to show that Cumberland, at the end, is no better — while it's ambiguous as to how genuine his devotion to God is, it's not enough to keep him from continually slipping into hypocrisy and finding every shallow excuse under the sun to give himself a clear conscience.
The standard? Cumberland's the worst in the film by the time he orders every townsperson massacred for their rebellion. He's not a serial rapist like Albino is, but he surpasses Albino in resources and personal cruelty and vaults over the line with his last few actions.
Conclusion?
One of the easiest I've put up in a while.
Thoughts?
Edited by Scraggle on Nov 29th 2018 at 8:31:46 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Cumberland.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Easy yeas to the above and....yeah, we need this Arkn stuff clarified pronto.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Wild Child
Albino and Cumberland. Gotta love a Karma Houdini.
Albino, Cumberland, BB and that Phantasy Star guy.
to Cumberland
Edited by G-Editor on Nov 29th 2018 at 6:24:21 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
BB and Lord Cucumber
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Kunham
Watch me destroying my country