Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Actually, to be fair, and even disregarding the KH stuff, the prequel and sequel stuff may be enough, depending on how explicit it is.

Trying to destroy a town and creating hellish dystopias...not standard.

edited 18th Sep '17 4:13:51 PM by ACW

I figured attempted genocide would be a Monster-ish trait.

edited 18th Sep '17 4:14:50 PM by SumDumNerd

That's basically equivalent of covering world of darkness. Which is as standard as you can get.

edited 18th Sep '17 4:15:38 PM by emperors

No. No. N. O. Oogie's plans are never given the appropriate pathos in any medium he's in. In the film? He's a threat tagged on at the end of the film to give it some semblance of an antagonist with no room to act heinous. Even adding on the video games (The Pumpkin King and Oogie's Revenge)? His actions still never pass the baseline. Nothing he does is played with the requisite level of seriousness; taking over Halloween Town? Attempting to kill Santa Claus and ruin the holidays? Destroying Halloween Town? You are significantly overplaying how heinous these actions are actually played ("attempted genocide?" "Hellish dystopias?" Oogie's actions never reach that level, and they're never portrayed as such!). He's no more heinous than a Saturday morning cartoon villain.

Oh, and Kingdom Hearts? Oogie is one member of an entire league of Disney villains, many of which outclass him. Jafar? Maleficent? Ursula? The Tron villains? Frollo? Even Shan Yu is worse, and he's the epitome of a Generic Doomsday Villain there. No way he can count there with the bloated heinous standard. That's not even factoring in the cabal of backstabbers and murderers known as Organization XIII.

edited 18th Sep '17 4:19:06 PM by Scraggle

Scraggle just clearly explained why Oogie doesn't count.

Alright, I apologize for offending and bothering you. I'll get out of your hair now.

Well, this was...odd.

Alright, let me run down why the others don't count quickly if you're still curious...

Jadis runs into concerns with Offstage Villainy. There was an exhaustive conversation back in the day and I think we ruled the same to disqualify book!Jadis ultimately.

SCP-682? Not only is it genuinely protective of another SCP (53, whom everyone else wants to kill or harm due to her psychological effect on them), Word of God states that SCP-682 perceives everything around it as a horrible abomination. Hence its hatred for all life.

Slender Man? Self-explanatory — it's an Eldritch Abomination with no clear motive. There's no real base characterization anyways due to just how many stories there are of it.

Labby might count on paper, but regardless, WTDGTD is shlock shock. We don't take characters from those on basis of standard.

Just popping ib to let everyone know Im gonna be unble to respond to messages or do my writeups for a bit. My phone has gotten some kind of malware on it nd Im having to send it in to get fixed, which could take wekl over a week. Im literally using a friend's years old Kindle to type this, nd its browser is completely jank. which you can probbly tell by the butvhery of this post. Will et everyone know the second Ive got my phone back up and running but until then, Im basically going ded. See you guys when J get back.

Ouch, I wish you good luck with the phone, Ravok.

A thing popped up that has me wondering what the heinous standard for the Yugioh series up to VRAINS are?

edited 18th Sep '17 5:52:42 PM by MorningStar1337

Good luck Ravok.

Well, here's to hoping you get it fixed soon, Ravok. Would hate for you to have to type like a YouTube commenter for the rest of your time here.

Okay I would like to rewrite one of my candidates, Adam Hart from The Power (1968), write ups as looking back honestly its a bit clunky and doesn't really give a good overview of the character.

Here is my original write up:

Adam Hart, aka Arnold Nordlond, was born with vast Psychic Powers which he's used to abuse people since childhood. Taking a new name, Adam destroyed nearly every trace of his old life to the point he brainwashed a man in his home town to kill anyone who turned up asking about him. Following his old friend Professor Henry Hallson, who discovered the existence of a super genius, Hart murdered Henry by imprisoning him in a centrifuge. He then began targeting Professor Jim Tanner, framing him for academic fraud and manipulating events to look like Tanner was the murderer before attempting to murder him. Going after Hallson's widow, Sally, Hart completely rewrote her entire personality, to the point she could barely remember her husband, permanently damaging her mind. Stalking Tanner, Hart murdered Professor Melnicker by inducing a heart attack. To remove suspicion from himself he faked an attack on himself, taking the opportunity to attempt to crush Tanner with an elevator. Hart then attempted to run Tanner over before succeeding in running him off the road into the river, and setting Doctor Van Zandt's house on fire, killing him and his wife. When Tanner finally confronts him, Hart attempted to torture him to death, forcing him to experience in succession sub-zero temperatures, his flesh burning off, the empty vacuum of space stripping him down to the bones before finally reliving the deaths of all his friends and colleges, all the while cheerfully narrating events and mocking him. A true sadist, Hart enjoyed playing with his victims, often through hallucinations, before inflicting agonizingly painful fates upon them.

And here is my suggested new write up:

Adam Hart, aka Arnold Nordlond, born with vast Psychic Powers, considers people his playthings and has abused them since childhood. Taking a new name, Adam destroyed nearly every trace of his old life, brainwashing his home town’s mechanic to kill anyone who turned up asking about him. A true sadist, Hart enjoys playing with his victims, often inducing mind breaking hallucinations before inflicting agonizing deaths. When his old friend Professor Henry Hallson discovered the existence of another super genius, Hart became obsessed with removing a potential rival, murdering Henry by imprisoning him in a centrifuge. He then targets Professor Jim Tanner; manipulating events to look like Tanner killed Hallson before almost murdering him through induced pain. Going after Sally Hallson, Hart rewrote her entire personality, leaving permanently damaged and barely able to remember her husband. Stalking Tanner, Hart caused Professor Melnicker to die from a heart attack. To divert suspicion he faked an attack on himself, taking the opportunity to almost crush Tanner with an elevator. Hart then tried to run Tanner over before running him into the river, and set Doctor Van Zandt's house on fire, killing him and his wife. When Tanner finally confronts him, Hart attempted to torture him to death, forcing him to experience sub-zero temperatures, his flesh burning off, the empty vacuum of space stripping him down to the bones and reliving his friends and colleges deaths, all whilst he cheerfully narrates.

I'm slightly worried it might still be a bit long and have to many potholes. Anyone have any suggestions?

edited 18th Sep '17 6:15:04 PM by MGD107

Take care Ravok.

...I'm a You Tube commentor, though.

Ah, Kingdom Hearts... I've got III reserved on the Discussion Dates. Might have been a mistake, but a part of me relishes the responsibility. Yeah, I can't imagine any Disney villain counting. They all have similar crimes of unleashing Heartless and trying to destroy their own worlds, any villains that ARE listed as a CM - like Scar or Frollo - have less screentime so why bother with an abridged version of the villain's arc and, of course, the shadow of Xehanort, who manipulates almost everything, hangs heavy. And I ain't even getting into the minor Organisation members.

Of note, The World Ends With You might take place in Kingdom Hearts' multiverse and Toy Story straight up takes place in it. No, really, when you watch Toy Story 3 next, you're gonna think "Woody and Buzz teamed up with Sora, Donald and Goofy and confronted Xehanort." I never played TWEWY, but I don't think we should worry about its villain being cut, because it's so much it's own thing. And Lotso - need I say it? Lotso is in a completely different ball park to every other Disney villain, even if we just compare him to other films. Even if we took KH into consideration - which I don't think we particularly should - he's a keeper.

I guess this post was pointless, but the talk made me think of it, and I try to preemptively deal with issues. Lord knows I've had moments in the past I should have made more of an effort. Also, I like talking about these games.

Good luck Ravok had the same problem but with my Laptop not to long ago cost me a 100 to get it fixed and another 100 to install security

edited 18th Sep '17 6:30:13 PM by G-Editor

Here is my second Path of Exile effort post. I gave a summary of the setting back in my effort post of

Who is Malachai?

Malachai is the Big Bad of the Awakening expansion and the Greater-Scope Villain of the game as a whole. Malachai was perhaps the greatest Thaumaturgist who ever lived and this power earned him the position of right hand of Emperor Chitus of the Eternal Empire. Malachai mastered the arts of Thaumaturgy passed down from the ancient Vaal and used that to empower himself and the rest of the highborn of the Empire. His unrivaled skill allowed him to implant Virtue Gems inside of people and turn them into a transhuman species called Gemlings. This power gave the Highborn effective immortality as it stopped them from aging and was used to create armies of super soldiers that formed the backbone of the empire's armies.

What has he done?

Of course, much like Dominus, Malachai needed test subjects. Malachai, along with his assistants and followers Inquisitor Maligaro, Doedre Darktounge, and Shavronne of Umbra, would use slaves from the Empire's conquests to perfect their crafts. These victims were tortured, mutilated, and torn apart in the experiments, and these experiments were done on a much grander and long term scale than any Dominus managed to achieve. Malachai's thirst for Thaumaturgy was insatiable and he soon asked Emperor Chitus if he could begin using the lower class of the Empire in the experiments, which Chitus reluctantly agreed to given Malachai's unparalleled success so far. Predictably, the citizens of the Empire did not take this well and incited the Purity Rebellion under the leadership of a man named Voll.

Voll's rebellion eventually won and Chitus and all of Malachai's assistants were burned at the stake for their part in Malachai's atrocities. Malachai himself was spared because he offered to do something Voll could not pass up. Malachai told Voll of The Beast and that it was the source of Thaumaturgy and all other magic, and Malachai knew of a way to kill it. His plan revolved around using a woman named Dialla whom Malachai referred to as his Gemling Queen. Lady Dialla once was the favorite consort of Chitus, but her loose lips caused to her to fall out of favor. Malachai asked for her to be his consort and soon taught her to love life and enjoy living. Following his courtship of Dialla, Malachai built the Rapture Device that would use Dialla as a power source and kill the Beast. At the last moment, Dialla decided she didn't want to die and the Rapture Device only succeeded on blowing a hole into the Beast, just as Malachai planned.

Everyone underestimated just how far Malachai's lust for immortality and ultimate power actually reached. Malachai wanted his own empire and wanted to become a god. Thus, Malachai went to the heart of the Beast and used his skills at Thaumaturgy to dominate the Beast's consciousness. With the power of the Beast at his command, Malachai created his perfect kingdom. He created his perfect world of Nightmare and turned Wraeclast into the haunted continent in a single day. His Nightmare, known as the Cataclysm to survivors, washed over the Eternal Empire like a plague and drove everyone it touched mad and caused them to begin murdering everyone around in a nightmarish frenzy. This included animals as well, as everything from birds, to snakes, to monkeys began attacking people on sight. Malachai's Nightmare soaked into the very land itself causing anything that died to rise from the dead causing a Zombie Apocalypse for all the survivors who didn't go insane. Malachai brought ruin to an ancient and powerful Empire in an instant.

A group of survivors calling themselves the Maraketh sealed Malachai and the Beast away beneath a mountain, but the seal wasn't perfect. Malachai was able to reach out and corrupt those of his choosing. He resurrected his three disciples and turned them into nightmarish abominations that he used to help shape and corrupt others he captured. To ensure he stripped himself fully of his humanity, he gave each of his disciples his heart, lungs, and intestines to guard. Using his power, Malachai captured the soul of Voll and his legions and raised them as undead thralls and set them loose upon the Maraketh in order to break the seal keeping his imprisoned. He also captured the souls of the barbaric Karui king Koam and the gladiator Daresso and entrapped them in their own worst nightmares and fed off their suffering to further empower himself.

During the events of the game itself, Malachai captures the soul and corpse of Piety, Dominus's Dragon, and twists her mind, body, and soul into an Eldritch Abomination to be his new right hand and herald, but not before giving her to each of his assistants to take their turns at "perfecting" her. The Exile enters the Beast thanks to a sacrifice by a guilt-ridden Lady Dialla. They defeat Piety and free her from Malachai's control long enough for her to help in reaching the heart of the Beast. During the final boss battle, Malachai murders Piety and proclaims himself the God of a new pure world. He states directly to the player that he used them to break open the seal keeping him imprisoned and will turn them into his new puppet to help in washing over the rest of the world in Nightmare. Ultimately, Malachai and the Beast are slain and the people of Wraeclast can finally rebuild. At least they could before the most recent expansion launched a month ago...

Any mitigating factors?

There are none that I could think of. Malachai never loved Dialla and only used her to open his way to the Beast. I will also point out that although Malachai essentially outdoes Dominus in atrocities, Malachai had a lot longer to perform his Thaumaturgical experiments and his worst act of starting the Cataclysm was when he had the power of a godlike being at his disposal.

Final Verdict?

Malachai, the Nightmare, is an easy .

Malachai

Okay, so, I went through another story from AH.com to see if there'd be more candidates for the trope, picking the story What Madness is This?. Right now I have five potential qualifiers from the story. So, without further ado, I'm gonna propose the first one now.

Background Information

What Madness is This? is an alternate history story exploring the consequences of the United States never adopting the Constitution and instead sticking with the Articles of Confederation. The results are not pretty; America itself fragments into multiple feuding nations, Napoleon achieves a total victory in Europe and crowns himself Emperor, and, in a development relevant to the candidate I'm about to propose, the English and Russian royal families marry and form a union.

Who is he?

Our candidate is Prince Viktor, son of Queen Victoria and Czar Alexander. After the deaths of both his parents, he becomes the ruler of both England and Russia.

What has he done?

Long before ascending to the throne, Viktor reveals himself to be a highly unpleasant person. He regularly abuses his English servants and any English citizen he believes doesn't show him proper respect. He murders three different prostitutes, avoiding arrest and prosecution due to his position of authority. He constantly tries to get Alexander to launch wars of conquest and aggression to get a better position against the French Empire. Due to his unhinged behavior, Alexander plans to skip him in the line of succession, planning on naming one of Viktor's two half-brothers to lead the country. When Viktor learns of this, he has both his brothers murdered and the assassination blamed on anarchists.

Once Alexander and Victoria die and Viktor gains power, he wastes no time in acting as a tyrannical overlord. Viktor launches a war of aggression against Persia and China with the intent on conquering them, and begins a genocide in Afghanistan and Baluchistan, killing millions. In another part of his insane plans to strengthen Russia, Viktor launches massive purges against the Jews, killing thousands more. When England tries to declare independence from his rule, Viktor orders that London be razed to the ground, resulting in the deaths of thousands of English men, women, and children. France and Sweden, understandably horrified by Viktor's depravity, blockade Russia's ports to ensure no further reinforcements can make their way to England. When Viktor considers launching a war against France and Sweden (which, mind you, would've been extremely bloody and drawn out), the armed forces finally has enough of the Mad Czar and kills him in a coup.

Freudian Excuse or mitigating factors?

He is labeled as mentally ill, but at no point does he show signs of psychosis or delusional thinking. His behavior is more consistent with an extremely aggressive psychopath or narcissist, not a schizophrenic or bipolar person.

Heinous Standard?

Now as noted, we are dealing with a story which has multiple potential qualifiers. So does he measure up? He has multiple personal crimes to his name (the three prostitutes, his two brothers), plus he, like some of our other potential qualifiers, commits genocide, launches wars of aggression, and massacres scores of people who rebel against him, even if they aren't explicitly against his rule. Something else to keep in mind is that he's only around for a few years and doesn't have nuclear weapons like some of our next candidates, so what he's done should be plenty.

Final Verdict?

Sounds like a to me. What do you guys think?

edited 18th Sep '17 7:43:33 PM by ThePest179

Hope all goes well Ravok.

Now for Judy on Twin Peaks. I'm mostly writing her up to give context to BOB.

Who is she?

Jowday was a malevolent spirit likely predating humanity. She may be an alien or a demon, or may blur the line between the two. Everyone that knows about her, fears her. Cooper, Gordon, and Major Briggs discovered her and plotted something. Agent Jeffries went missing investigating her, and the Fireman, the Big Good of the setting, is taking measures against her.

What's she done

She's had 2 scenes. In a city, a rich businessman has converted a penthouse apartment into an observation chamber on a glass box. Jowday, now going by Judy, appeared in that box and killed the two people in the room.

Later there's a flashback to when the Trinity Nuclear Tests occurred. Judy commits up a ton of black sludge. A black Orb with BOB's face on it appears, indicating that's where he was born. Similarly a number of eggs appear, one later hatching into a frog/fly thing and crawling itself into a girl's sleeping mouth.

What the hell?

So this is Judy's problem, Twin Peaks is really obtuse about her. By herself she's a Generic Doomsday Villain, she's big, evil, scary, and more of a goal or mystery than a character herself. I think that the follow up book to Twin Peaks might discuss her more, but who knows.

Other than that there's a ton of "maybe" plot lines that Judy seems to be involved with. That egg that hatched and creature that crawled into that girl's mouth may be Judy possessing that young girl, and that girl may have grown up to be Sarah Palmer who may be possessed by Judy. Sarah's possessed by something alright, and signs point to it being Judy, but that's never confirmed. As a possessed person, Sarah kills a man, but he was an abusive weirdo who was a step from sexually assaulting her, so no real harm done.

Judy's kind of like the candidates we did for Dark Souls, lot's of speculation and background detail to try and fill us in on what they have done. For instance her murder of the two people guarding the glass box: Judy needed to feed off of their suffering, so deliberately manifested itself during them hooking up, and inflicted Death by a Thousand Cuts to them, killing them slowly, but allowing them to release enough Garmonbozia/suffering for her to consume.

That's a plausible theory, and makes sense in the world that Twin Peaks set up, but the scene itself is just a weird monster appearing in a room and killing 2 people in a weird way.

If anyone wants a good explanation for the finale: This article is good at breaking down what happened and giving more direct closure. It also ruminates on Judy's nature as a being that seeks out and mathematically gives the highest amount of suffering to people so it can feed.

Conclusion

I'm with Silverblade on this one. Judy doesn't have enough character (solid character) to qualify, and I feel she may be elaborated on more in the future. I just needed to write this down and point out her creation of BOB.

edited 18th Sep '17 7:32:41 PM by DrPsyche

Malachai. That revolutionary leader sounds like an utter dumbass. He kills the accomplices, but spares the guy most responsible?

Malachai and Viktor

Judy

Guys, I need more votes on von Niemann

With SCP-682, its because he has Blue-and-Orange Morality. What is known about considering humans disgusting is not because he has Fantastic Racism, but because Humans Are Cthulhu and the creature is as disturbed by us as we are to SCP-053. Who he's friendly with, which gives him actual redeeming features. That's why he's not a CM

Take care and good luck with your phone Ravok

I think I can comfortably von Niemann.

edited 18th Sep '17 8:00:43 PM by ThePest179

Viktor, White Eyes, Malachai, von Niemann, Fiskle and Nicosar.

To Wyoming.

I am abstaining on the Twin Peak villains, because I have not seen that show yet and don't want to spoil myself.

Also I did an effort post on Skull Duggery and only got 3 votes for him:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=6vic3f9h1cy5qivsenw8llok&page=3793#94817

I would like to get some more opinions on him please.