During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I want to make a few style changes to my writeup for Kalinin's SCP-001 in Monster.SCP Foundation.
- The first one is to change the Pot Hole for "gratitude towards others' suffering" from Insane Troll Logic to The Right of a Superior Species. It just feels more correct, since there could be some human-like logic behind it, just extremely evil.
- Second, for the sentence "... and successfully convinced thousands to flee to the Planet of Hands, followed by more." change the sentence to: "and successfully convinced humanity to flee to the Planet of Hands".
- Third, for the sentence "An actively evil intelligence holding a twisted logic...", change it to "An actively evil member of a twisted race...".
edited 5th May '17 1:51:56 AM by Wuz
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Those are fine. You can request those yourself.
Messenger from another dimension.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Gisaku
Good ol' Papa Palps.
I wonder if he expected Rax to "betray" him, but didn't care because he knew he'd attempt to destroy much of the empire anyway, thus ensuring the Papa got his revenge.
I got some E Ps to read...
Gorkan, Nicolai (he seems a bit worse than your standard Mafia baddie) and Constance. I'll take Sum's word that there are comic adaptations, meaning the questions about whether or not a theme park villain can count are moot.
My opinion on that? It's like theatre villains: If there's a coherent narrative, it can have a candidate.
edited 5th May '17 4:31:18 AM by PolarPhantom
We're rethinking a lot of our old choices. Anyone else got their own idea about old characters that should be re-evaluated for CM status?
I recently wrote my write up from the film Darfur. See if it may fit:
- Darfur: The Janjaweed Commander is the blood - thirtsy leader of a supremacist militia responsible for the slaughter of hundreds, if not thounsands of Black African people in western Sudan. When he and his men arrive to a village, and after forcing six Western journalists and the African soldiers to leave, they begin to plunder and indiscriminately killing men, women and children. The Commander personally impales an infant on a bamboo stick and then has the mother gunned down after forcing her to watch the scene. As three journalists and an African captain tries to save the villagers, they're also killed. One of the journalist is burned alive as the Commander watches chuckling sadistically before shooting him. After burning the village to the ground the Commander moves on to continue his genocidal campaign across the region.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Gorkan. Unsure on Constance.
So I'm gonna go against the grain for once and ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Nicolai. And this is not because he was voted down before. Nicolai, to me, seemed more like a Smug Snake who was constantly being pressured by his boss over his repeated failures into doing something, which made him more reckless and brutal. His grudge against McCall was personal, but also seemed like he was trying to avoid the wrath of what his boss would do to him. Nothing he really did popped out at me, given who he is and the genre of the film.
But this is just me. And as I said the other day, this forum has desensitized me waaaaaaaay too much.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
I dunno if we should open this can of worms.
As said before, unless new information comes up, we shouldn't touch resolved items.
Anyway, abstaining on Constance. I'd like to hear more information too.
Gorkan and Nicolai
Nobody really acknowledged this post, so I'll just copy and paste it.
Speaking of Fairy Tail, I've kind of been questioning Zancrow's inclusion as a CM for a couple of months.
* Zancrow is one of the elite members of Grimoire Heart, another of the top Dark Guilds. What sets Zancrow apart from others is how his only apparent motivation in life is to kill and destroy whatever he can. Zancrow feigns concern and care for members of his own Guild but after several are defeated by Natsu, he shows no hesitation or remorse in burning them alive. Zancrow makes certain to attempt to kill nearly everyone he meets, be they combatant or not. When he catches his ally Meredy coming over with an unconscious Zeref, he instantly (albeit correctly) assumes she's betrayed Grimoire Heart and attempts to murder her as well, revealing that Ultear was responsible for her hometown's destruction evidently just to make her suffer.
Honestly, other than killing some of his own guild members (and even that feels like it's stretching it a bit) all of this feels pretty bog standard, and it doesn't help that in his very own entry, it mentions Ultear destroying somebody's entire hometown, which sounds way more heinous than the stuff listed for Zancrow. Yeah, he stands out in terms of sadism in the series, but that doesn't equate to standing out in heinousness.
edited 5th May '17 4:54:20 AM by Awesomekid42
Unsure on Zancrow (having no familiarity with Fairy Tail at all), but by the same token I've meant to say for a while that I'm unsure of Gaear Grimsrud counting. I mean, he's a brutal, remorseless thug who's as much a danger to his nominal allies as to anyone else, and taking the film on its own he'd be an easy keep, but it's in continuity with the TV series, which means Lorne Malvo, who besides having all of the above apply (and far more onscreen kills, albeit mostly of Asshole Victims), also went around corrupting others into killers like himself in his spare time. Maybe you could make a resources argument since Malvo was more clearly affiliated with a larger organization, I don't know. I did do a search and this doesn't seem to have been brought up.
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
We are not cutting a solid example from a film that came out twenty years before the show was even conceived of.
for Nicolai.
Are the film and the series in the same continuity? If so, then it doesn't matter how much time has passed between their releases.
Anyways, I have no issue reevaluating Zancrow.
But no, the Fargo film stands on its own. Yes, the amount of time passing absolutely matters. We are not removing a rock solid keeper because of a show that later ties itself in. One can watch the Fargo film as its own thing.
Lost in Space
Noting here that Colonel Vanek from F.E.A.R. 2: Project Origin has only collected a handful of votes.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'm...not sure I agree with that honestly. If it's all the same continuity...
Grimsrud is still uniquely heinous by standards of the film, being a murderous force of evil that massacres most other characters in the movie for "a bit of money."
Twenty years later, they do a show that loosely ties in and is set in a continuity that includes the film. This does not mean we need to remove the film that's stood on its own, is on a different page and stands alone as its own work.
edited 5th May '17 8:24:22 AM by Lightysnake
It's been a few years since I stopped reading Fairy Tail, but if I recall correctly, even villains who redeemed themselves like Laxus and Jellal done worse than Zancrow, the former having no qualms about killing his own guild mates prior to his Heel–Face Turn either. And with Zancrow's very own entry making Ultear come off as worse than him, I have a hard time believing he still qualifies.
edited 5th May '17 8:30:44 AM by Awesomekid42
Grimsrud isn't going anywhere. There's no reason to reevaluate anything given the two works are essentially two different stories entirely and Grimsrud still does well enough on his own to qualify.
Re Grimsrud removal because of the show: No.
After thinking on it , I'll vote to cut Zancrow cause it sounds like he's overshadowed. Don't see any reason to cut Grimsrud though.
Gorkan and Nicolai
I think Ravok uses his phone.
BTW, Ravok, for Aftermath, should it go: Palpatine additional sentence/paragraph (please create one); Rax; Tolruck?
edited 5th May '17 1:41:11 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts