During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Looks like Gross suffers a suitably gruesome death
...
Back to Shinnok...man, if not for Shao wanting to steal all the souls, I'd say Shinnok actually out-heinouses him.
edited 13th Dec '16 9:53:04 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Krazka One-Eye, Nerat, Gavin, Shinnok, and Sergeant Major Gross.
Yes to Nerat, Krazka, and Gross.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
If I'm not mistake, Shinnok wants to merge everyone into the Supreme Being, which I'm pretty sure would include their souls...so that's kinda worse.
Basically, it'll end all their lives and revive the One Being who'll proceed to eat the Elder Gods.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So kill everyone, steal their souls...both can count (thank goodness, as Shao is awesome).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Also, Shinnok
Shinnok and Gross
Wild Child
Gross.
Anywho...a while back, I proposed that the Phryne Fisher entries be given a re-write, but no one responded. With that in mind, I read one of the novels to see if I could do the re-write.
And I have to contest one of the villains listed.
- Murder on the Ballarat Train: The worst member of the child slavery gang is the man who rapes the kids to help break them, considering it all part of his compensation for leaving his previous legitimate job.
The man in question, Henry Burton, has very limited screen-time, during which he commits no crimes on-screen. All of his crimes are merely talked about. The most of what is onscreen is Phryne coming into contact with one of his victims, Jane, who has amnesia because Burton hypnotized her.
Burton only appears in the story once, and that's when Phryne Fisher forces him to confess to his crimes and to give Jane her memories back. That's it. Granted, he's a Jerkass and remorseless during his little screen-time, but I'm not sure of that's enough.
If he's kept anyways, I guess I'll try and do a re-write for him, but I just want to point this out.
edited 13th Dec '16 12:16:25 PM by Clown-Face
Why so serious?
Shinnok and Gross.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Any indication he runs the child slavery ring? If not, he may have to go.
If there aren't too many entries this week, I may go through Hack/Slash and see if I can't expand Rodin, maybe Guthrie, maybe even Akakios.
Wild Child
No, he does not run the slavery ring. He's more hired help.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well then I say cut him.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah cut him
to Krazka One-Eye, Nerat, Gavin, Shinnok, and Sergeant Major Gross.
Also I took a look at Fredrick Ernst Egin and notice it need a little polishing here is what it looks like now (I bolded the misplace words):
- Ernst Frederik Egin, exclusively from the anime, is a member of the True Cross Order who, despite his claims, is solely motivated by his racism against demons. Ernst would send men to kill demons and those associated with them, regardless of innocence. When he learns that his daughter Yuri is pregnant with Satan's children, he has her put on the stake to be burned to death, something he had done this to many other women before. He even has people watch, but when Satan comes to rescue her, he abandons them all while he escapes, with burns serving as evidence of his cowardliness. Many years later, Ernst finds one of Yuri's children, Yukio, whom he to persuades to his side. He also murders The Order's leadership, becoming its new leader. He then issues all True Cross Academy students weapons and force them to fight demons, despite many being inexperienced. He then tasks Yukio to bring him his brother Rin saying he will spare Rin, only to admit to lying once Yukio does it. Ernst gleefully watches Rin being tortured, knowing it would open the Gate to Gehanna where he will drop his nuclear bomb, The Messiah, onto the world, destroying it and eradicating every last demon there. When Yukio offers to take Rin's place, Ernst agrees, but tries to kill Rin anyway. Satan appears and foils Ernst's plans, and when he reveals to Yukio what Ernst did to Yuri, he responds that Yuri was not his daughter for loving a demon and her children are just disgraces to him. Sacrificing all those he see, family members included, simply to fuel his desires, Ernst stands as more vile than any demon shown.
This is what I'm suggesting (The changes are bolded):
- Ernst Frederik Egin, exclusively from the anime, is a member of the True Cross Order who, despite his claims, is solely motivated by his racism against demons. Ernst would send men to kill demons and those associated with them, regardless of innocence. When he learns that his daughter Yuri is pregnant with Satan's children, he has her put on the stake to be burned to death, something he had done to many other women before. He even has people watch, but when Satan comes to rescue her, he abandons them all while he escapes; the burns serve as evidence of his cowardliness. Many years later, Ernst finds one of Yuri's children, Yukio, whom he persuades to his side. He then murders The Order's leadership, becoming its new leader, with his first command issuing all True Cross Academy students weapons forcing them to fight demons, despite many being inexperienced. He also tasks Yukio to bring him his brother Rin saying he will spare Rin, only to admit to lying once Yukio does it. Ernst gleefully watches Rin being tortured, knowing it would open the Gate to Gehanna where he will drop his nuclear bomb, The Messiah, onto the world, destroying it and eradicating every last demon there. When Yukio offers to take Rin's place, Ernst allows it, but tries to kill Rin anyway. When Satan finally appears and foils Ernst's plans by revealing to Yukio what Ernst did to Yuri, he responds that Yuri was not his daughter for loving a demon and her children are just disgraces to him. Sacrificing all those he see, family members included, simply to fuel his desires, Ernst stands as more vile than any demon shown.
Does it look any better?
edited 13th Dec '16 6:19:15 PM by G-Editor
I have a nominee: Dr. Collin Ramzi from The Dead Pit:
Who is he?
Collin Ramzi was the head surgeon at a mental hospital. A brilliant man who specialized in brain surgery. At some point, he became obsessed with death, and started murdering the patients in acts of torture that involved unaesthetic brain surgery. He was confronted by one f his colleagues, Dr. Gerald Swan, who shot him in self defense. Gerald, believing that his career would be over if this would be discovered, sealed the bodies of Ramzi and his victims underneath the hospital's clock tower and kept it a secret.
Years later, an amnesiac patient called Jane Doe arrives at the hospital as an earthquake somehow brings Ramzi back as a zombie and releases him from his tomb to seek his revenge on Swan.
What does he do?
Ramzi begins sneaking up to the hospital at night and killing patients and staff and taking their bodies to his room where he was sealed. All the while, Jane is getting visions of him doing this and does not know what it means. In the third act, Ramzi captures Jane and restrains her to a bed in his room and reveals why he was killing people and taking their bodies to the basement of the clocktower: He brings all of the people he killed, both as a zombie and a human, back from the dead to form a zombie army, which he uses to try and kill all of the hospital staff and patients so that there is nothing standing between him and Swan. Only Jane, Swan, Jane's friend and fellow patient Christian Meyers, and Sister Clair, a patient who also happens to be a nun, survive the initial massacre. Swan tries to kill Ramzi with bullets, which fails, and ends up his next victim. Sister Clair reveals that holy water can kill the zombies, and that she can "bliss" any water if it is God's will. Christian and Jane plan to bomb the water tower after Clair "blisses" it so as to flood the hospital with holy water and kill all of the zombies. Christian goes to plant the bomb while Jane tries to escape the zombies. Ramzi manages to kill Clair, and is about to kill Jane (who turns out to have been his daughter Sara, which is somehow supposed to explain the psychic connection) when Christian manages to plant the bomb. He is unable to escape the water tower due to a zombie getting in his way and dies, as the flood of water destroys Ramzi and all of the other zombies. The film ends with Jane's eyes turning red, suggesting that Ramzi possessed her or something.
Redeeming features?
None. It's mentioned that he ad a wife and at least one child besides Jane/Sara, but it's stated that they did not bother to investigate his disappearance, so there was obviously no love there, and Ramzi tries to kill Jane/Sara at the end.
Mitigating factors?
None. Unlike the other zombies, he can control his actions, and he is shown speaking several times. His motive in life was sick curiosity, and in undeath, it was revenge against the man who killed him in self defense.
Heinousness?
Judging by how massive his zombie army was, he had killed quite a lot of people, and that was before he unleashed his army onto the hospital, which resulted in all but maybe one of the characters of the film dying. His massacre of a hospital and attempt on the life of his now adult daughter easily makes him a keeper in my opinion.
edited 13th Dec '16 2:38:58 PM by bobg
jjj
If no one objects, I'm going to cut Manami Anzai soon.
I'm suprised that no one discussed FFXV yet, it's been exactly two weeks since the 29th. But from what I've heard and seen(unless the imminent effortpost proves me otherwise) preemptive to Ardyn Izunia, who has quite a large scale of crimes, both personal and not, it seems, and I don't think his backstory really mitagates anything. But then again, I am unable to play the game without a PS 4 so most is just what I've watched or read from other players.
Also I don't think Vitiate needs a new effortpost. All we need is adding his new crimes in the expansion and emphasize that he subverted every Pet the Dog moment he had in KOTFE, and add that he tries to body-jack the Outlander to live forever.
Unrelated, there's a intresting contrast between Morgoth and Sauron, and Vitiate and Legends-era Palpatine(as I feel there is a bit of a Morgoth and Sauron comparison between Vitiate and Palpatine given how similar their Sith Empires are even through Vitiate was long dead before Palpatine was even born). As bad as Sauron got he was never as powerful arguably or able to command as much forces of evil as Morgoth. Whereas, Palpatine managed to outdo Vitiate in every single level from sheer power to sheer evilness.
edited 13th Dec '16 4:14:41 PM by xie323
I reserved FFXV, but sadly won't be able to do it because you can't do an effortpost on what you've heard only what you've seen. Perhaps FW or Lighty could do it.
edited 13th Dec '16 4:35:23 PM by Klavice
Honestly, I just didn't care about FFXV. I tried the demo, hated it. Nothing the constant trailers show tempted me, and there was way too much complaining on the FF forum for me to even want to try.
If everyone were normal, the world would be a dull place. Like reality television.
Just to cease this belly aching, I'll do the effort post.
Yeah I'm surprised there wasn't any effort posts of FFVX. I'm also surprised no one has discussed Series/Gotham yet.
If no one asking, I'll just send my rewrite to the drafts page.
for Ramzi
edited 13th Dec '16 9:32:24 PM by G-Editor
Oh, and on the subject of Gross feeding a girl to his dogs... the panel in particular
might actually work pretty damn well for the images page.