During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Jayce, is the webcomic ongoing
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yes, however as for the Korean version, the next episode that will be released at next thursday is the Grand Finale.
Edited by PlatinumOni on May 18th 2022 at 11:17:35 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
So here is that other candidate I mentioned earlier.
What's the work?
Ouija Sleepover is an RPG Maker Explorer Horror game by Hatoge, who would go on to make Sofia?. It stars college student Aiden who invites his friend and crush Dan for a date, and it ends up with them playing with an Ouija board that Aiden found in the trash, which he thought he would use to play a joke on his superstitious friend.
As you can guess, it goes wrong and transports them to a haunted pocket dimension. They meet up with Linda Simons, a pink-haired schoolgirl who decides to help them escape... though not before getting on their nerves.
Long story short, turns out Linda is the Big Bad and our candidate. So here is the Distaff Counterpart to Simon Dale.
Who Is Linda Simons? What Does She Do?
Dan finds a newspaper article that explains Linda is a ghost. In life, she was a Serial Killer known as “The Catfish Cannibal”, so named for her M.O. of seducing men at a bar, then killing and eating them, racking up 8 victims before being caught and killing herself to escape justice. When Dan asks her why she did such a thing, she replies that she hates men.
Basically, the horrific alternate dimension with flesh all over the walls that Aiden and Dan are in right now is made of the memories of Linda and her victims. Linda herself tries to do her usual seduction/murder thing on Aiden, but it fails on him since he’s gay. Instead she whips out a knife and chases both men to eat them, wondering if homosexuals taste different from straight guys. She also declares homosexuality “a waste”.
Luckily, Aiden and Dan are able to receive help from Gary Hugh, the ghost of her last victim, and are able to banish her spirit to the afterlife (presumably Hell), and in the good end are able to get back to their world. Upon which it turns out Aiden already “confessed” to Dan while drunk.
Heinousness?
Now, there is no indication that this game takes place in the same universe as Sofia, so comparisons are unneeded. Even so, Claire was responsible for the deaths of 250 or so clones, but she had the entire government funding her. Icarus themself, while committing their actions after the government cut off funds, was still working with government-funded technology. Linda is just some random woman who seduces, kills, and eats 8 people even before becoming a spirit. With that in mind, 8 murders and 2 attempted is a decent enough body count for a relative nobody, plus the cannibalism gives her a bit of uniqueness.
Another thing is that we are only told of her crimes through a newspaper. However, Aiden and Dan interact with the ghost of one of her victims via the titular Ouija board, and it is stated that the pocket dimension, with its fleshy walls, was created from their memories. We don’t see the others because Linda is more powerful than them, so she can manifest in a semi-physical way, but the others are there too (Gary communicates via the Ouija board). So I feel enough of a pattern is established and there is direct evidence of her crimes.
Mitigating Qualities?
Jackie's words:
“She once owned a teddy bear, but there’s nothing that says she deeply cares about it; it’s just to remind her that she was once a mortal.”
They use said teddy bear to “remind her of who she once was” so they can send her back, but there’s no indication of her being agency-impaired or suddenly becoming sane or whatever. They trap her in a salt circle, perform a ritual, and then force her to pass on, ending her threat for good.
Verdict?
Yes to the man-hater, right along the aforementioned woman-hater.
Edited by MasterN on May 18th 2022 at 11:28:43 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
to Claire Carter, Gout, Jayce and Linda Simons.
for Claire, Gout (tentative), Jayce, and Linda.
Linda
If the comics Grand Finale is so soon we should hold off on Jayce.
Trace: Feature-long episode "Black on White" features Grigoriy Zubkov who is a pedophile who enters families with teenage daughters to abuse them. The tactics he uses for it is outstandingly creepy: he stages some extreme situations (like attempt of abduction and rape in case of Belaya) to save them. Then he stages ANOTHER extreme situation to remove the senior sister from family (in this case, he staged murder during self-defence ( there was merely a concussion). What makes his villainy outstanding? He did that in at least FIVE families. And his victims were Driven to Suicide. And then, he kills his crime partner, Viktor Lysenko and tries to assasinate Belaya, his stepdaughter (who was a big danger for him now). And, after being caught, he feels sorry for NOT KILLING her (so he would get away with this.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That reads a little too informally.
Any answers to this?
I too say hold off on Jayce until the finale.
Sure to Claire, Gout, Linda.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Sure to Calire, Gout, and Linda. Holding off on Jayce.
Cross-wired freak
to Linda. Hold off on Jayce
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, and again, which quote do we want for Black Clover? Dante or Zagred?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Dante, I say
Jayce & Linda
to Jayce and Linda.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Works for me. Added, and the page is now ready to go. Though feel free to make sure everything looks okay.
The Draftsman of Doom
Hold off on Jayce, but yes to Linda.
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Jayce sound very much as a CM material, except "only to forgiving them when they have written 100 apology papers" sounds as holding himself in evilness. I would expect from CM going into full scale evilness regardless of apologies.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Gout
Jayce
Linda
This sounds more of a ego trip case, where the ridiculous 100 apologies are his method of control of others. Making 100 written apologies is a fairly humilliating experience and that is what Jayce searches
Edited by KazuyaProta on May 19th 2022 at 11:06:04 AM
Watch me destroying my country
The Draftsman of Doom
Since this and the Magnificent Bastard thread have had recurring problems with Ban-Evaders, I am thinking of linking to Ban-Evader Example Rewrites in the Monster Sandboxes. The candidate re-evaluation section is at the bottom of the page at the moment.
I know we have CM To Do Lists for works to look into in general, but I would like to use the sandbox in question to make note of when a candidate is proposed by a ban-evader.
Think of it as a back burner where we can put the candidates until someone adds them to their to-do list.
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
The Moron
Either way on Jayce, guys, the work literally ends next week, why are we upvoting this at all right now? We can revisit him when we would talk about anyone from the comic
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Yeah, abstain until the comic finishes next week. Once that happens, the OP can repost their EP if nothing changes.
to Gout, though.
Edited by MasterN on May 19th 2022 at 9:40:37 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Actually because of that, I'll retract my vote for Jayce till next week, though given what's said, I don't think it'll change.
Yeah same here. Retracting my vote for Jayce.
Edited by eruptor142 on May 19th 2022 at 1:00:09 PM
From 'Ell's 'eart Oi stab at ye!
Abstaining on Jayce for now but barring another Xehanort/Kil'jaeden situation I don't think it'll be no.
What’s the work?
Tales of the Unusual is an Horror/Thriller Anthology webcomic by Korean artist, Seongdae Oh. every story is set in a different timeline and has a different theme.
Who Is He / What did he do
Jayce is a recurring villain, and the Overall Main Antagonist of Tales of the Unusual series, Jayce first appears in the episode ‘to kill a magician’, who is targeted by the Magic society due to his magic tricks being out of the world, such as being able to combine two things into one, surviving multiple assassination attempts, seemingly gets killed by a train after he get tranquilised by one of the magicians during his escape magic at train, however he survived with half of his face ripped and in order to get a placeholder Face, kills the chairman of the Magic Society, sadistically mocking and killing the protagonist Gangyoo, before using his face to appear in his identity and seemingly using his supernatural powers to torture all of the audience by merging all of them into one.
In the episode ‘Jayce’s Pen’ he gives a magical pen to an bullied victim where if someone stabs a pen with a insect, next time they draw something then it will cause the insect to come out in to drawing, this causes the victim to cause mass destruction such as filling his school to be filled with insects, and eventually after he have been approached by the bullies, he stabs one of his bullies with the pen but he is defeated and the pen is used to scribble his face by the bullies, which would cause multiple versions of the bullies come out from his face and kill the victim, Jayce says it was fun watching the madness, showing no remorse.
Later in the episode ‘Change’, he, in a request of Kim Ahsun, an Woman who has a bad relationship with his boyfriend, he changes the mind of her pet dog and her boyfriend and causes chaos between the three, only to later reveal that he put a curse on Ahsun as well, turning her into an animal in a human body.
In the episode ‘the stationery store’ discovering that 5 children went to steal from his store, threatens them with paying 20 times the amount of the items they stole or get cursed, the following day, turns the children into the products they have stolen, making one of the children disappear from the face of the earth, only to forgiving them when they have written 100 apology papers.
In the episode ‘Magnet’ it is revealed that he kidnapped multiple people and trapped them in a magnetic contraption with a button that needs to be pushed for them to survive or the magnet in top of them will crush them to death, inviting multiple versions of himself to the game and even going far as gambling with them to see how long they live for.
In the Prequel episode ‘The Demon Man’ it was revealed that Jayce was actually a nameless Demon, to be exact, the ultimate demon that have been formed by multiple demons that have possessed human bodies, in order to get along with society, he heads to a Art centre and killed the Original Jayce, made his body disappear and now turned into Jayce we know.
Freudian Excuses /Mitigating factors? None, he is just a demon who does not care for anything. He clearly has a personality, as there are no indication that he is made of evil, and uses his intelligence to spread chaos and destruction for enjoyment.
Heinous Standard
‘Tales of the Unusual’ standards are high considering the story is literally about supernatural beings and aliens, we have world destroyers, plague spreaders, serial killers and so on, the problem is that they are usually Generic Doomsday Villains with no personality really seen.
What makes Jayce heinous is that he has a clear personality, responsible for mass Murder, and mass torture, causes bunch of magical events to happen that creates chaos everywhere, or while enjoying the people suffering and so on, he has no moral agency issues shwon anywhere, basically making him as the evilest villain in the whole series.
Final Verdict Yes.
Edited by PlatinumOni on May 18th 2022 at 10:33:16 AM