During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to El Montana and Bamford
Montana.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Showtime!
to the Beadle and el Montana
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Ultimate Moral Compass
Montana Max
Since Banba looks to be approved, here's my writeup for him.
- Inazuman: Emperor Banba is the ruler of the Neo-Human Empire who seeks to exterminate humanity under the pretext of preventing famine, when really he wants to create a Neo-Human world order with himself at the top. Kidnapping humans with psionic potential, Banba has them forcibly converted into monstrous Mutant Robots before sending them out to massacre humans, taking any humans who survive the massacre as slaves. In one instance, Banba turns Goro Watari's mother into a Mutant Robot, and kills her in front of him when he frees her. In the finale, Banba temporarily allies with Goro against the emerging Despar Army, only to backstab and try to kill him before attempting one last plan to sink Japan's archipelago.
Professor Gigachad
So I have just remembered a rather odd situation but I just remembered a while ago someone did an EP for Hayden White from Nora's Life and despite some initial concern over the standard they were upvoted but it seems the proposer never did a writeup. What is done in these cases?
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The Moron
We can either ping the person who proposed him or I'm willing to take it if they don't respond
Professor Gigachad
~Phantom 25 do you have a writeup for Hayden White that you proposed a while ago?
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Best Smile
Montana, Beadle, Stannis, Piratyn, Sugita, Xvier, Set, Miroslaw and Sebastian.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Poprawa.
RIP Stephen Sondheim.
I am the one, I am the one, the godlike terror train, superior artificial brain, feel free to call me Blaine
Miroslaw, Sebastian, Sumire, Set, Xviar, Stannis, Pyratin, Bamford and Montana
Poprawa
Yes to Montana
Current mood: sick of your shit
Montana and Beadle
Okay, I've got one that I think may have to get cut, and unfortunately, it's one I EP'ed. Dr. Oswald Harrison from Fran Bow. Now, all of his actions are unchanged; but upon playing the game again recently, I realize that I misquoted a line in my original EP, and unfortunately its one that affects his inclusion. In the game, Harrison emotionally manipulates and essentially brainwashes Grace Dagenheart (Fran's aunt) into becoming his accomplice. Later, when Fran finally snaps and attacks her evil aunt, Harrison comes in and shoots her, planning to dissect her brain while she is "still warm". Now, in my original EP, I thought all he said was that Fran "must not hurt Grace", and rightfully thought it wasn't mitigating; it was just Pragmatic Villainy that he didn't want to loose his right-hand and helper that he manipulated into that position. Well... he doesn't say that. He clearly says "Don't you dare touch Grace, you little monster!" before shooting Fran. Though this is the only time in the game it even so much as hints that Harrison cares about Grace, it seems he does care for her safety, so far as to call her attacker a monster. Sure the attacker is a ten-year-old girl that he proceeds to shoot and try to dissect, but the line still carries concern for his accomplice. I don't know how I misremembered the line so badly considering it happens in literally the last cutscene and I did my EP right after finishing the game. Anyway, another nasty candidate ruined by one line.
Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
Professor Gigachad
Man that sucks but Cut Dr. Oswald Harrison
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Indeed, sad loss.
Cut Oswald
Goku Black
Montana
to Xviar, Stannis, Lord Pyratin, the Beadle Bamford, and El Montana.
Cut Dr. Oswald Harrison.
RIP Stephen Sondheim.
Cut Harrison
Maybe there's an obscure foreign translation where it's not mitigating.
Seriously, though, cut Harrison.
RIP Toriyama
Yes to El Montana, Cut Harrison, shame as it is.
I've got a couple Marvel ones Scrags tossed me coming up, as well as a very fun collab with him, but first...I've discussed this comic twice before on two separate occasions...and with a reread, I think it's got one last discussion worth having:
What's the work?
Bedlam was a tragically Cut Short comic book that had a fascinating premise: Complete Monster Card-Carrying Villain Ax-Crazy Sadist "Madder Red" terrorized the city of Bedlam for years before his "death", in truth faked by a shadowy agency that kidnapped, experimented on, and all-but-lobotomized Madder until he was an entirely new person: All-Loving Hero Badass Pacifist Fillmore Press, who decides to use his knowledge of crime and evil to help cops solve Bedlam's most brutal cases.
Who is Archbishop Warton? What has he done?
The first of two Arc Villains of the comic in the midst of Madder Red's role as the Predecessor Villain, Warton is currently an elderly man, in prison for a long while thanks to, shocker for his title, a massive child abuse scandal in which Warton was ousted for abusing and raping dozens of young boys at his church.
Stewing in his self-pitying, self-righteous hatred for some time, Warton got his chance for vengeance years later when one of "his boys", Eric, came to him in prison, mentally decimated by Warton's abuse... Warton proceeded to twist Eric into his "angel of death", convincing the young man to genitally mutilate himself, don metallic wings, and carry out murders throughout Bedlam in Warton's name, primarily? Of not only members of Warton's church, but also the now-adult survivors of his abuse...Warton likens them all to Judas and himself to Jesus Christ, venomously snarling that they're all traitors to his "glory" and deserve to be punished.
And so, with Warton's guiding hand, Eric goes on to drown, stab, strangle, bludgeon, burn alive, boil alive..you get the picture...plenty of people connected to the church, and in one notable case uses two horses to horrifically tear one of Warton's abuse victims in half.
Warton then orders Eric to grab a pair of AK-47s, walk into Bedlam's biggest hospital, and kill everyone inside. Eric executes everyone in his path, even a cowering pregnant woman, all to Warton's delight...23 are left dead from the massacre, many more saved only thanks to Bedlam's superhero the First.
Eventually tracked down as the mastermind of Eric's horrors by Fillmore, Warton reveals his motive is not only to bring "righteous" judgement upon all of Bedlam for being "filthy" and turning away his "glory", but also that he has a special demand: to be allowed to act as a priest once again, Warton perversely aroused and excited by hearing of others' wrongdoings as it plays to his religious ego and sadism.
And so Fillmore strikes a deal: revealing himself to have once been Madder Red, Fillmore will have regular "confessions" to Warton about all of Madder's horrific crimes, and in return for the...uhhhh, pleasure of these details, Warton will call off Eric. Warton does just that: he calls Eric and orders the man to kill himself, which the broken Eric naturally complies with.
The arc ends with all seemingly well...only for Warton to ominously reveal that Eric wasn't the only one of "his boys" to have crawled back to him, and we see at least 3 other "angels", all standing by to terrorize Bedlam once more at Warton's command....
Too fuckin' bad we'll never see the conclusion to that :D
Mitigating features?
Heavens, no. Warton is an absolute bastard. He whinges about his own righteousness and how he's been "betrayed, rejected and cast out" by the world when he was just trying to "help"....but Fillmore plainly, bluntly, hilariously interjects repeatedly to remind Warton that he's a sadistic, petty child rapist who sealed his own fate, and Warton's every "woe is me" line is treated as pure ego stroking bullshit by a lunatic convinced of his own purity.
He's a disgustingly vile creep, and even as he claims to "love" his "children" who have stayed "loyal" to him, it's absolutely portrayed in the most disturbing, selfish light possible, as Warton abused them, forced them to mutilate themselves and become mass killers in his name, and he is all smiles as he casually orders Eric to kill himself just so Warton can get his rocks off to Fillmore's Madder Red stories.
Heinousness?
Madder Red...phew boy, he's horrible. A mass murderer of men, women and children whose official bodycount alone is at least 2,000, who is introduced to the comic by slitting a little girl's throat before threatening to bomb a school after slaughtering an entire field trip class. The second Arc Villain, Mr. Pixel, is no slouch either, as he uses Psychic-Assisted Suicide to force innocents to kill themselves, their families, and do things like bomb office buildings or crash airliners...hundreds die at his hands. Both are already listed as this trope for good reason.
Buuuuuut though Warton is absolutely lacking the bodycount—the absolute highest bodycount you can attribute to him as less than 50—he's not only also lacking completely in resources, but there is... absolutely a horrid uniqueness to Warton being not only a child rapist, but one who brainwashes several of his victims into mutilating themselves and turning them into slayers of their fellow abuse victims and others, including a random hospital just for lulz.
Warton's got more than enough quality to make up for the lack of quantity.
Final Verdict?
Third and final keeper from this dark af comic.
Edited by Ravok on Nov 27th 2021 at 12:45:32 PM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Wild Child
Warton. Also, now that Bedlam has a page, the entries on the main Monster.Comic Books page should probably be added to the YMMV.
