During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
Nah. But he does have a moral code.
It goes to the Kim Newman page under a Diogenes club section. It's supposed to be canon to angels and Moriarty of the duvervilles.
Edited by miraculous on Jul 21st 2021 at 4:05:20 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Hayato and Charles Manson.
ACW: No he's not a well intentioned extremist. He's evil, but he's an old school gentleman supervillain. He's got standards, he respects his opponents, he values his word, he has a low opinion of bigots and hypocrites, and he's constantly plotting to take over the world and willing to to kill you the moment he decides your death will help him more than your life.
Edit: Looks like I was beaten on that one.
Edited by MGD107 on Jul 21st 2021 at 4:06:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, seems kinda like Moriarty (the original).
BTW, Mir, I've re-created Monster: Kim Newman. Feel free to modify it if need be.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Btw me and scraggs will have a few more potentials from their. Mind waiting.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Professor Gigachad
Charles.
I also just saw Trollhunters: Rise of the Titans and I won't say anything to avoid spoiling it but I will say I am looking forward to the discussion on it.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 21st 2021 at 4:15:07 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's fine. Just let me know when.
BTW, so Manson just...disappears?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Yeah a lot of Newman villains just escape. Lol.
He says he builds his universe like a comic one. Where he can bring them back later which is why rarely kills them.
Edited by miraculous on Jul 21st 2021 at 4:17:37 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Also, what Fenrir Greyback quote are people upvoting? There's two to choose from on page 10884.
Edited by k410ren on Jul 21st 2021 at 7:18:51 AM
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Hayato and Charles.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Manson (3rd version)
Is this part of the Newman-verse? (Plus I only knew about the guy because he made a cameo in The Sandman audio drama)
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Charmed has 8
Edited by nwotyzal on Jul 21st 2021 at 4:56:38 AM
Professor Gigachad
Also, that means that Kim Newman is not going to be one of those pages with exactly seven. If you wanted to know what pages have exactly seven keepers.
- American Horror Story
- Arrethtrae
- Halloween
- Jack Reacher
- Midsomer Murders
- Night Huntress
- Ripper Street
- RuneScape
- Scream
- The Ultraverse
Ops miscounted.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 21st 2021 at 4:57:43 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The wifi here sucks
Actually, we do have one other for Ultraverse coming up in the future...
Professor Gigachad
That is cool so that means one less page with exactly seven.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Current mood: sick of your shit
Manson
@ACW The Unholy has a page now, if the entry hasn't been added yet.
Read "Ghost Stories of Remnant" here.
Yes to Hayato and Manson.
Apparently, the Maestro may have to be cut, he recently had a freak out seeing his mother murdered on an old video:
Goku Black
@Nywoz:
Basically according to Newman. Angels of music, Diogenes club (this) and Moriarty of the dubervilles are all supposed to part of a shared universe. Along with a fee one off novels like Jago and Quorom (This is where Derek Leech debuted).
Anno Dracula is an Alternate Universe to this verse where Dracula won and took over Britain.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Manson. Duck and I were just talking about another version of him that was almost deemed a keeper.
You know what? I'll just do James' writeup now to get it out of the way before too much time passes.
Straight Edge Kegger: James originally formed his gang to keep Nazis out of local shows, but over time, became just as much of a bullying thug as the people he was against. Introduced punching a vocalist in the face and threatening a young teenager's life for wearing a Budweiser shirt, James gradually makes it clear that he doesn't care about the message he initially tried to promote. He later crashes a house party that his former follower Brad is attending, where he and his gang violently massacre and wound the guests, killing two cops when they come too close to finding the bodies, and making one final attempt on Brad's life just to prove that he's better than him.
I think Straight Edge Evil would make a good pothole for the first "James".
to Manson
I have a question about an existing CM: Andross is currently one. However, the manual for Star Fox 64 explicitly says his experiments and goals started out as benevolent, implying he's a Fallen Hero. Is that disqualifying for being a CM? Granted, I haven't played Star Fox Zero, so if that retcons it so he's Evil All Along, I retract this.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Redeeming traits mentioned only in side materials are ignored here. Its one thing if there is something implied in the main series, but if there is only in sidematerial, then nope.
And yeah, Fallen Hero CM do exists.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Jul 21st 2021 at 9:12:00 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Professor Gigachad
No that is not disqualifying as long as they shed all their redeeming traits.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 21st 2021 at 7:11:39 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Woagh
@Bootle: Not really. If a Fallen Hero goes really off the deep end, like Andross being an Omnicidal Maniac, then they're fine.
Besides, if something stated in a Manuel isn't supported by anything else, then we can just chalk it up to outside sources, which generally don't count.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Jul 21st 2021 at 7:11:53 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Ah, so he's a WIE? (Though "capitalist dystopia"...you know what, never mind).
So on which page(s) will Manson go?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts