During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Goku Black
Again this is weirdly familiar.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I'm the one who Epd Julian and I can't find my post. 0_o
Edit: Ah! I found it!
Now I was already unsure when I proposed him butWyldchild's rebutal was compelling for me.
Edited by Silverblade2 on Mar 11th 2021 at 9:13:03 PM
The Emperor of Evil!
Here's another Marvel villain I think might be a keep but leave it up to you. This is a short one since this guy... Has a minor appearance and not much screentime.
Who Is He?
Eda Arul was a former Prison Guard turned dictator of Imaya, after usurping the country's former president with help from the Advisor. Appearing in the first four issues of War Machine, He would oppress the people of the country while having his enemies decapitated and displayed on his shelf. So far I counted 20 decapitated heads on his wall, and when we first see him he starts talking to them calling them fools for daring to oppose him, treating the decapitated heads as his "trophies". In his speech against Vincent Cetewayo, he forced a huge crowd of his people to agree with him and applaud him via having his men threatening to shoot them if they don't. He along with The Advisor schemes to capture Vincent Cetewayo, and have him tortured and executed for leaving his country and fleeing to America, a country he seems to greatly hate. Once he finally got captured, he imprisons him where he would personally assault him to a bloody pulp then orders him to be tortured.
In the comic, we learn that he has his men massacres villages and burning them down to the ground, as we see one of them destroyed with a few people laying dead on the floor. Once he learns Cetewayo escaped, he gets very pissed and threatens to execute his men if they don't find him. Going so far as to order his entire army to even burn down any village and leave no survivors alive they find just to find this guy. Later on his army finds a rebel camp that Cetewayo, Deathlok, and War Machine are at and seek to annihilate everyone there.
When he finally gets defeated and usurped after losing his Civil War against his own country, instead of allowing himself to get arrested he instead attempts to kill Sheva Joseph for "betraying" him, leading to his death when War Machine guns him down.
Mitigatin Factor/Freudien Excuse
Nope, none. He's just a run in a mill egotistical petty dictator who hates the US and enjoys the powers he was given, having people who go against him decapitated and have their heads as souvenirs. And is also a bad boss who threatens to have his men killed just because one man escaped, and has no care for his people beyond wanting to stay in power unopposed. There's also the fact he is pretty much an insane Psychopathic Manchild who likes to scream at everyone for minor reasons. Now, he is a pawn of The Advisor of course since the Advisor only put him in power solely to create strife within the country of Imaya but he has a will of his own, and his moral agency was not affected nor was it stated that it was.
Heinous Standards
Now Marvel has a high heinous standard, but... I'm just proposing him just in case since he does have his fair share of heinous deeds. He massacres villages through his army as it seems, beaten a Peace Activist and attempted to have him tortured, orders his men to burn down any villages they come across and leaving no survivors in them, and has his men threaten to shoot an entire crowd of people if they don't agree with him. Plus he is a minor villain with less screen time, only appearing in four issues with not that many appearances. Plus he has no superpowers beyond just being an insane African dictator unlike the Advisor.
Final Verdict
Up to you.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Mar 11th 2021 at 3:24:41 PM
The Moron
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I get what Wyldchild is going for, but Julian doesn't die, so there's no indication of whether or not he'll end up going to Hell. It's a valid point for other villains, but here I think it's a non-issue.
But, looking back at the other counterarguments under the original EP, I'm also changing my vote to abstain. Actually, I'm keeping my yes. The ending of the episode has Julian attempting to justify his crimes by saying that he's "improving" their lives, meaning he's sociopathic enough to justify his slavery, and the entire time it is all-but stated that the slaves are for prostitution. Yes, it's not outright stated, but the implication is plenty obvious, and with that scene with the women featuring all of them screaming and crying the entire time, I'm comfortable enough with him. I won't fight it if he doesn't go up, though.
Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Mar 11th 2021 at 3:36:24 PM
Woagh
So remember Neopets? Y'know how it has 3 candidates already?
Well...
What's The Work?
Neopets is a browser game about raising a virtual pet. Despite the innocent premise, it actually contains a surprising amount of adultish content, from bloodthirsty pirates to maniacal Mad Scientists. There is one reoccurring character worth mentioning, however...
And for that, we must travel into its mediocre PS 2 tie-in, Neopets: The Darkest Faerie, which introduces one of the series resident Greater-Scope Villain. She also returns in the web game proper. I introduce to you, The Darkest Faerie.
Who's The Darkest Faerie?
The vile Dark Faerie who was responsible for the disappearance of the kingdom of Altador, and attempted to destroy Neotopia twice.
What does she do?
The Faerie was once one of the 12 greatest heroes of Altador, being chosen by King Altador himself. However, as it turned out, she had quite the ambitious goal of being remembered as the true founder of the kingdom by killing everyone who knew better. Thankfully, the friendly faerie Fyora managed to turn her to stone and seal her away, but not before casting a curse on Altador to seal it in darkness. Everyone literally had to move the kingdom to a realm where time was slowed down to survive, and even then the place was still crawling with darkness.
1000 years later, she managed to break herself free of her prison, which is where the Game begins. Recruiting a trio of Dark Faeries, she manages to take over both Neotopia and Faerie land, the latter location being where she tries to come up with a way to announce her arrival. She then figures out a plan: Colony Drop Faerieland into Neotopia, destroying both kingdoms and killing everyone on there. In the meantime, she casts numerous dark spells over the kingdoms and has her minions cause havoc all over the land. She's also savvy enough to try and impede the protagonists, Tormund and Roberta, by hiring a sadistic assassin to kill them. Near the end of the game, when the duo manage to fix most of her destruction, including the whole Altador issue, she manages to trick them into giving her a wand that'll let her cause the Colony Drop, proceeding to do so and attempting to kill the heroes personally. You only have 3 minutes to defeat her before Faerie Land collides with Neotopia. Eventually, they manage to beat her, she's resealed in stone and placed on the fountain, and all is good once again.
...Until the main website started a storyline called The Waith Resurgence, where she returns. Y'see, one day, a guy traveling to Faerie Land to see his friend, Reizo, stumbled upon her statue and accidentally freed her without knowing what it actually was. As a "Award", she curses him into becoming her beastly assistant to her new scheme, Reizo only periodically retaining his sanity. Together, they hatch a new plot: Start turning random Neopets into hostile Waiths, have them attack Neotopia, and disguise as Reizo's friend, the faerie Kaia, to spy on Neotopia and trick the Neopets into ambushes. She also reveals her backup plan: to literally gas all of Neotopia with poison, killing everybody. She attempts this twice: Once while Kaya and other guy Malum, and as a last ditch effort to get her revenge on Fyora, again tying Kaya and Reizo to it. Thankfully, a ruby ring DF was forced to wear weakened her immensely, so she had to flee after placing down the gas bomb, which Kaya was able to break out of and destroy. The Darkest Faerie was never seen again afterwards.
Migitating Factors?
Now, she's a dark Faerie, who have a reputation of usually being evil, but there are some good Dark Faeries out there, so no Moral Agency issues there. She also used to be one of the good guys, but it's implied that she had dark ambitions from the start.
Also, while she isn't the deepest character out there, she isn't a Generic Doomsday Villain, she has established goals of being feared by everyone and a Faux Affably Evil Soft-Spoken Sadist personality.
Heinousness?
Doing a bit of research, she breaches it. She's the only villain besides Sloth who appeared in multiple storylines, tries to destroy two kingdoms at the same time just for acknowledgment that she's back, forcibly turns numerous Neopets into evil Wraiths, and its shown that they're suffering effects from it even after being turned to normal, and tries to gas the whole kingdom twice in the same storyline, not to mention depriving Neotopia of their greatest champions for 100 years. It's made clear in both occasions that everyone's gonna die if she succeeds, especially with the whole Gas plot. Yeah, I'd say she's good.
Overall?
How's she looking?
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
The Emperor of Evil!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Dark Faerie.
Anyone wanna vote on my other EP?
Edited by Powermaster201 on Mar 11th 2021 at 3:40:09 PM
The Draftsman of Doom
Need to think on Arul and the Fae. Leaning towards a yes.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 11th 2021 at 3:57:35 PM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
for Zayden, Julien, Folie, Helio, Vignito and Dark Faerie and a tentative one for Arul.
Edited by TellAll111 on Mar 11th 2021 at 12:59:45 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
We actually have all 3: Numerous incarnations of Mephisto; Film!Blackheart; and 2 D'Spayeres (one from Lit, plus the MCU one).
Yes to the Advisor; yes to Eda Arul (assuming he wasn't corrupted and it's more of an Ares/Ludendorff situation; yes to the Faerie (freaking Karma Houdini?).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Arul and Dark Faerie.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Goku Black
Arul the faerie
Even if I’m unfamiliar like I am with Julian, it’s always nice when a candidate who was rejected before ends up going up.
Since I think both were separately announced, I'm reserving both the Happy Death Day/Freaky crossover and the Freaky sequel if that’s alright with everyone.
The Emperor of Evil!
@ACW nothing actually suggested he was corrupted, in this case it just seems he was just being manipulated by the Advisor. Advisor just helps him get into power and give some suggestions, but all of Arul's crimes are all on his own while Advisor is basically responsible for them since he wants the chaos to unfold onto the country of Imaya regardless on who's winning.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Mar 11th 2021 at 4:38:11 AM
to the Advisor, Arul and Dark Faerie.
Professor Gigachad
to Advisor, Arul
The Emperor of Evil!
Should I start the writeup now? And should they go under with the other Iron Man C Ms? Or does war Machine just gets his own?
Professor Gigachad
I had discovered this guy and watched the film and I was pretty shocked at how evil he was especially for the type of cartoon.
What is the Work
BoBoiBoy is a cartoon series starring the titular character on his many adventures on earth and in space. The character I will be talking about is from the second movie simply named BoBoiBoy Movie 2
Who is Retak'ka and What Has He Done?
Retak'ka is the Big Bad of the second film he was once a normal whatever his species is who was abandoned at the dump. There he meets Hang Kasa who he would become friends with. At some point in their life, Retak'ka along with Hang Kasa discovered Power Spheres. They took them and gained the elemental powers.
It however was not enough for Retak'ka he soon was overtaken by his greedy nature and fights Hang Kasa for the powers intending to kill him if necessary. Retak'ka would not succeed however and was trapped in crystal for 100 years eventually being freed by some diamond miners.
He learns that BoBoiBoy has the elemental powers and recruits the diamond miners. He attacks and destroys the TAPOPS station likely killing many people on it. He then tortures Koko Ci onscreen (with him even using that word) to get him to reveal BoBoiBoy’s location.
BoBoiBoy shows up however and is easily defeated by Retak'ka but is able to escape just in time. Retak'ka then leaves the station and orders one of the miners to blow the place up to kill everyone on board, with only 6 people escaping out of dozens we see before.
Retak'ka then starts going from planet to planet absorbing the elemental powers. During his visit to Planet Gur'lathan he massacres an entire army on their leaving nobody left alive (we even get to see a pretty unsettling shot of all their dead bodies). He then goes to Planet Bayugan where he doesn’t kill anyone due to the planet being evacuated but he does completely destroy it by absorbing its power and we see in detail how much damage him doing it does. During which he also kidnaps Yaya, Ying and Fang.
He then contacts Hang Kasa who is currently training BoBoiBoy and threatens to kill Yaya, Ying and Fang if BoBoiBoy does not come to fight him, which Hang Kasa obliges to. He gets in a fight with Hang Kasa and ends up seemingly killing him with Hang Kasa barely surviving. BoBoiBoy does end up winning in the end though and kills Retak'ka ending him for good.
Does he have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
There are two possible ones that do need to be talked about. The first one is he does have a Freudian Excuse he was abandoned as a child as I mentioned. But in the end, this is not enough to disqualify him he is not affected by this in the present and his only motivation is power and greed rather than his tragedy and his actions far outweigh it.
He was also once was friends with Hang Kasa in the past as I mentioned but by the time of the story, it is pretty clear this is long gone. With him trying to kill him several times and mocking him outright for instance.
You may think him being played seriously is a problem but it honestly isn’t he is played completely seriously with no comedic traits insight. His actions are played with genuine horror and stakes with everyone taking the threat of him seriously.
Does he meet the Heinousness Standard?
He pretty easily blows past the heinous standard BoBoiBoy does have some pretty evil baddies including one either I or someone else will bring up. But nobody else in the franchise has committed mass murder with a body count confirmed in the dozens on the scale that Retak'ka has. His crimes are also explicit and not offscreen with us seeing everything he does on screen in detail as well as the deaths and attempted deaths he causes, as I have mentioned with him blowing up a space station with people on it and massacring an army with their dead bodies shown onscreen.
Final Verdict?
Pretty solid yes.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Mar 11th 2021 at 1:53:49 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Goku Black
They would go in the iron man tree albeit with war machine being what's listed inside the tree. Similar to what is some for the batman characters as their still Parr of the same superhero family.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Emperor of Evil!
to Retak'ka as we discussed :)
Okay
Edited by Powermaster201 on Mar 11th 2021 at 4:50:24 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Leaning yes on Retak'ka.
So it'll go:
- Iron Man:
- Wong Chu
- Obadiah Stane
- War Machine:
- Advisor
- Eda Arul
The Emperor of Evil!
I know what trope Eda Arul would fit in but I'm not sure about Advisor, any suggestion?
The Emperor of Evil!
The guy doesn't appear much to become one and he isn't that personal with War Machine, he killed his idol but that's it. He only appears in like, I dunno two story arcs and that's it.
Eda, Faerie, and Retak (a few years ago I cut an unapproved entry for Bora Ra, also from Boboiboy, are going to do him as well?)
I'm changing to an abstain on Julian because I'm now 90% sure i remember him being EP'ed and downvoted before
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