During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Friend and Abomination. Ravok, if I may be inclined to ask, who are the other animated Marvel candidates you intend to propose?
Yes to the The Man of Many Faces.
Not sure on the Abomination—none of what he does honestly sounds like a standout to me. I think "I'll blow up the town/country/world! Muahahaha!" is starting to become standard villainy in kid's shows because Take Over the World is more and more seen as a tired Cliché. I'll give him a yes for now, though.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Friend.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Easy to Karkossa and Friend.
to the Man With the Scarlet Eye, the Abomination and Lord Karkossa.
edited 21st Apr '16 4:39:18 AM by MGD107
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Now that I think about it, Roland (not Macklin, who seems to have an Even Evil Has Standards moment) sounds like he himself could be a contender (as "Friend" seems like he may be more than human). I gotta find this book.
edited 21st Apr '16 6:13:19 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes to the Man with the Scarlet Eye... So speakth Occasional Eater! Finally, I have an ironic nickname!
To the man with the scarlet eye.
edited 21st Apr '16 7:25:35 AM by Awesomekid42
RIP Toriyama
@Scraggle: Well, first and foremost, once his current arc is finished, I intend to propose Ronan The Accuser, who is already standing out as one of the most wicked villains I've seen in Western Animation, and is a subject of severe Adaptational Villainy....from his film version, that is.
Second of all, from the same series, I'm deliberating proposing the Mad Titan himself, Thanos, though I'm kind of unsure on him due to heinousness issues when compared to Ronan.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Wild Child
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Is this Ronan given an actual personality, may I ask?
To Abomination and The Man With the Scarlet Eye
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And does this Thanos love death?
Also, I think with the entries this week, I may do some research on Lord Foul, and clean up the entry on the Ravers.
Abomination and The Man With the Scarlet Eye
RIP Toriyama
@Clown Face: Although he's still not the most complex villain, this Ronan has considerably more character than his film version, with his Knight Templar Fantastic Racism aspect cranked up, and, in one of my favorite moments so far, he has this great line: "I will deal with you, Star Lord. I believe I owe you, what was it you called it, a dance-off?" Which he says sarcastically, mind you.
@ACW: Death doesn't exist in this universe thus far, so no, Thanos comes across as just an omnicidal psycho who enjoys destroying stuff.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Didn't say it was a good change. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
edited 21st Apr '16 9:02:32 AM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
So they took away one of the most interesting aspects of Thanos, making him no different than any other dime-a-dozen would-be world destroyer? ... Goodie.
First off, I'd like to apologize for the debacle I caused yesterday with that one proposal. In hindsight, I could've probably picked a better candidate if I was to propose anybody.
Anyway, I think we should really give some attention to the listings in "music." I've tried to bring it up several times in the past, and each time I've had people agree that some of the examples definitely shouldn't be there, but it always ends up getting overtaken by some other discussion. Which is cool, I get it. There are other more pressing matters to deal with.
But I've decided to go over each of the entries in that section and give my personal opinion on their CM status:
- "A Little Piece of Heaven" narrator: Either cut him or give him a very extensive rewrite. His current writeup looks like it was written by someone who speaks English as a second language and doesn't really do a good job of explaining why he supposedly qualifies as a CM. I personally don't think he counts, because he only kills a single person, arguably shows remorse for his actions, and the zombie apocalypse he starts was totally unintentional.
- "Such Horrible Things" narrator: I'm honestly not sure. I'm leaning towards "cut" mostly because I've listened to the song myself and it really comes across as a piece of Black Comedy that's not to be taken seriously. If anything, he's in need of a rewrite, too. His current writeup doesn't really specify anything that he's actually done. It says that he talks about the things he's done and enjoyed doing them, but it doesn't actually say what he's done. So, yeah, either cut or rewrite.
- "Mind of a Lunatic" guys: I've not heard this song, but from the description alone, these guys sound bad enough to keep. Someone else can offer more insight.
- Lottie from "The Curse of Milhaven": Keep.
- Akron from "The Emerald Sword Saga": Again, don't know anything about this one, but from the writeup alone I think he's a keeper.
- The boy from "Excitable Boy": Cut, cut, cut! Raping and murdering a single girl and building a cage out of her bones. Definitely bad, but by no means complete monster material in my book. It doesn't help that the song doesn't even seem to be serious in tone. It comes across to me as a piece of Black Comedy (and it probably was, though I don't know much about the singer).
- The Priest from "Angels": Keep.
- The Serial Killer from "Garbage": Keep.
- The Rake from The Hazards of Love: Keep.
edited 21st Apr '16 11:07:57 AM by Pwnisher248
I think I agree with a lot of that. I can vouch for Akron personally as Rhapsody of Fire's albums are basically an epic fantasy series in concept album form, so there's a lot of narrative to them.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Excitable Boy, that song is pure Black Comedy.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
OE, you ain't kidding. That was, like, what DEFINED Thanos. It'll be interesting to see how/if the MCU will handle that.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Definite to the Excitable Boy. Either to Such Horrible Things narrator, or he should get a re-write since the entry doesn't tell us about any of his actual actions.
- "Such Horrible Things" by Creature Feature: The unnamed Villain Protagonist talks of all the things he's done while stating outright that he should be killed gruesomely for having done it all. It starts off with him being just a violent Jerkass kid who pranks people in cruel ways. His first known crime is causing one of his friends to vanish in the woods, never to be found. He then burned down his own house because he hated its colour. At twelve, he tossed his sister down a well to her seeming doom. When recounting what happened when he was 14, he says that nothing happened, but then he remembers "that one time" and chuckles. Cue a series of screams and about 50 seconds without any narration. His reign of terror ended when he tried to bury his brother alive. The brother just barely survived, but got him locked in an asylum to the end of his days.
edited 21st Apr '16 10:55:31 AM by DemonDuckofDoom
I like that rewrite for him. I'm still not sure if he should count, but that's still a better rewrite.
As for the "Little Piece of Heaven" guy, I still don't think he counts, but I've decided to rewrite his entry anyway in case he's found to still qualify. One thing I'd like to note is that his girlfriend never actually does reject his marriage proposal. That's only in the music video. The actual lyrics to the song suggest that everything had been going fine in their relationship, and he killed her because he thought something would go wrong. That's actually worse, I think. Also, some have suggested that his remorse isn't genuine because he only feels bad after his zombie girlfriend kills him and he ends up in Hell. Anyway, here's my rewrite:
- "A Little Piece of Heaven" by Avenged Sevenfold: The main character murders his girlfriend out of fear that something in their as-of-that moment perfect relationship would go wrong. He stabs her, rips her heart out, and eats it, laughing all the while. He keeps her corpse and uses it for sex, remarking that it is more pleasurable than when she was alive, and also implying that he'd raped her in her sleep before. Eventually, his girlfriend's spirit repossesses her body and kills him out of vengeance. He does show remorse for his actions in Hell, but only because he got punished for them. Now a zombie himself, he and his girlfriend decide to get married. The two of them proceed to go to the wedding of another couple to have theirs there, and murder everybody in attendance. The guests are all turned into zombies as well, and it's implied to start a Zombie Apocalypse.
edited 21st Apr '16 11:33:45 AM by Pwnisher248
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Drafts page please.
So, according to Hamill himself, Animated!Joker in The Killing Joke: “If people want to see a really nasty, vile Joker, this is the one,” says Hamill. If he's not as sympathetic as the comic version, that could be one actor playing one character having 3 entries (BTAS!Joker, Arkham!Joker, this one). As anyone else even had that twice?
edited 21st Apr '16 11:30:49 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Doesn't even like this username
Akron certainly qualifies (also, I heartily recommend Rhapsody (of Fire) to anyone even a little interested in fantasy and symphonic power metal, as long as you're willing to endure some narm and wonky English). Sadistic villain with enough personality, especially given the kind of media he's in. for Abomination and Scarlet Eye, too.
edited 21st Apr '16 11:44:32 AM by LordXavius
I have a music candidate: The Villain Protagonist of this music video.
What does she do?
She goes on a killing spree targeting the band playing the song in the video because she was not invited to the pool party where they were playing the song. She kills one guy by hitting him over the head with a bottle, kills another by dropping a toaster in his pool, kills another with an arrow, and feeds the lead singer to a snake.
Any mitigating factors?
No. She may have had a reason to be mad, but that did not justify her reaction.
jjj