Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Liloupar.
The Undercover Troper
What is the work?
Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney – Trials and Tribulations is the third installment in the Ace Attorney series of visual novels, which are know for their eccentric, yet story-driven plots.Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Luke Atmey is a self-proclaimed "Ace Detective" and longstanding rival to Phantom Thief Mask☆DeMasque. Upon discovering Mask☆DeMasque's first heist of the Tear of Emanon and learning his true identity of Ron DeLite, Atmey proceeds to hold reporting him to the authorities over his head in exchange for Ron committing more heists and loaning the profits to Atmey. After KB Security head Kane Bullard learned of what Atmey had done, he proceeded to blackmail the detective, leading Atmey to kill Bullard to remove the charges. To create an alibi for the murder, Atmey disguises himself as Mask☆DeMasque and steals the Fey Clan's Sacred Urn from its exhibition, getting himself committed for theft as opposed to murder. Atmey uses this alibi to avoid a double jeopardy, before he's found out by Phoenix Wright and laughs off his loss, conceding defeat over his master plan.How are they Magnificent?
Atmey has by far one of the most convoluted, yet foolproof plans in the series. After committing a murder, he decides to Confess to a Lesser Crime to have Ron take the heat for his crime, and knows full well that he can't be convicted for murder on double jeopardy. In turn, he also convinces the court that Mask☆DeMasque is his own persona instead on Ron's, thereby removing any suspicion on him for his early blackmail attempts.How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
Besides murder, Atmey's biggest crime is blackmailing Ron, which is a rather heinous crime. However, it's worth noting that Damon Gant, who himself is approved as a Magnificent Bastard, had also stooped to blackmailing, so it's not a be-all end-all on heinousness. And while Atmey did commit murder, he only did so because he was backed into a corner by Kane Bullard, who was giving him a taste of his own medicine by blackmailing him, making his kill one of the lesser examples in Ace Attorney. And while he's shown having a Villainous Breakdown, not only is it a common occurrence in Ace Attorney, but his breakdown is one of the more tame ones in the series, combining Laughing Mad with a Motive Rant. It's eerily similar to Gant's breakdown where he also went Laughing Mad.Final verdict?
I think there's a solid case to be made with Luke Atmey. Orcus on His Throne will always be my pet peeve.
to Luke. He ends up making a slip-up that leads to his downfall and ends up having a Villainous Breakdown afterwards.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Nay on Luke
For an update, I am mostly done with the Hazbin Hotel candidate. Should be good to go tomorrow.
Edited by Snoketrope on Feb 16th 2024 at 3:22:40 AM
The First man
Luke Atemy
Ok so the 2 week period is up, we can EP characters from the Suicide Sqaud game now. And there is really only one character that counts and it isn’t Waller given she accomplishes shockingly little in the game and even suffers a pretty bad breakdown after getting outplayed by Earth 1 Lex Luthor who himself doesn’t count due to his arrogance and lack of caution getting him killed by the Flash. So I will be giving you the one that does count. Let us begin
What is the Work?
Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League is a video game made by Rocksteady studios set in the Batman Arkhamverse. 5 years after the events of Arkham Knight Harely Quinn, Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, and King Shark are forced to be part is Task Force X by Amanda Waller when Brainiac invades earth and brainwashed the Justice League, forcing the Sqaud to take the impossible task of killing the league. While a Lex Luthor is in this game he gets killed fast by Flash, however after they Squad kills Flash they get sent to another dimension where they meet are candidate who is…..
Who is Earth 2 Lex Luthor and what has he done?
This Lex Luthor hails from Earth 2 bring your typical Luthor, billionaire, hates Superman, abs is secretly evil. All that changed when Braniac invaded the Earth, brainwashed the Justice League, and terraformed the Earth ti be his new home planet with everyone in the earth dying, expect for Luthor who Managed to survive by remaining hidden fkr 3 years and surviving off scraps. He being the genius he managed to get in contact with the Lex Luthor from Earth 1 and warn him of the coming Bramiac invasion. During the invasion he would meet the Suicide Squad who was teleported ti his dimension where he would learn of his Earth 1’s counterpart death. He would then have the Squad assist him in bringing his lab to Lex tower where he could transport them back to Earth 1.
Upon arriving he would convince the Squad not to hand him over to Waller by revealing that Waller was lying to them and convinced them place a device in the inner sanctum allowing him to hack into Argus and reveal to the Squad that even if they beat the Justice League Waller plans on using Brainiac’s brainwashing on the Squad to make them her total slaves. This convincing the Squad to work with Luthor instead with him. He would then take over Wayne Banks secret lair to obtain a Yellow Lantern batteries for the Squad to use kill Green Lantern. After seeing Kryptonite fail to kill Superman Lex figures out that Braniac had made changes to his DNA and that too create a countermeasure he needed Batman as a move sample, having the Squad convince Waller that it was a good plan.
After obtaining Batman as a live sample he used the data to create Gold kryptonite that would dampen Superman’s powers and recommending they fight him at the park in front of his statue to fulfill his dream of a broken Superman in front of his monument abs gave them Batman to use as bait to lire out Superman. After Braniac’s arrival after the death of the League he save them from being brainwashed from Braniac. He then revealed the existence of 13 Braniacs that are all working together for multiversesal domination giving the Squad their new goal. Walker would then discover the Squad’s betrayal and order them to inject a Nano bomb into him to control him only for Luthor to reveal he already had a Nano Bomb in him that would blow up the entire building if anything happened to him forcing Waller to work with him to take down Braniac. He would guide the Sqaud to take out Braniaz’s machines and create the Data Spike to download Braniac’s data ti give them the info to attack other Braniac’s and destroy the ship. With him sending the Squad in their new missions to defeat the rest of the Braniac’s.
Is He Magnificent?
Yep, unlike the other Luthor is much less overly arrogant and cautious of he could die. He was smart enough to survive on the destroyed Earth 2, escape the dimension, convince the Squad to help him by exposing Walkers plan and devise the plans that defeated Green Lantern, Superman, and eventually Branaic. He also was able to weaponize the nano bomb in his head to force Walder into an alliance with him showing his ability to plan ahead. He also has the excellent voice of Corey Burton and while he was a bit cranky when the Squad first met him he is pretty affable to them especially in comparison to Walker and his arrogance comes across as something he can back up and makes him look cool instead of line an idiot
His only real competition is Waller who is an unlikable control freak who Lex outplayed hard thanks to the forced alliance so yeah he is magnificent enough
Is He a Bastard? Too much of one?
Well he is still a super villain who wants to destroy Superman and take ownership of metropolis and even admits his main motive for saving the world is because he wants his city back and takes pleasure in the plan to kill the brainwashed Superman and in the Argus tapes in the game is revealed to be the one responsible for their being two Deadshots on Earth 1 and all the deaths that caused. He is definitely shady enough but definitely far from being two evil given how is literally opposing 13 omnicidal Braniacs making his crimes look rather minor. Heck even next to Waller who tries to nuke Metropolis and brainwash the Squad Lex ironically looks like the more reasonable option given he is much more civil to the Squad. So definitely far from too much of a baddie.
Verdict?
Yes in my opinion
Edited by YorkobeShounen on Feb 16th 2024 at 3:42:59 AM
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Lex.
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
Weak to Lex-2
to Lex, and I'll have to agree and go for a for Luke
to the Mishimas, Raditz and Lex, to Liloupar and Luke.
Showtime!
to Lex
to Luke. In addition to the mental breakdown he's framed as an apallingly annoying and egotistical Smug Snake
Jogo
Lex Luthor
Yes to Lex 2, the Surprisingly Improved Sequel to Lex 1.
Raditz. An unexpected but very welcome character for MB
And to Lex too
for Lex Luthor.
for Luke Atmey.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Lex and Raditz.
How strict are we with the 2 week spoiler rule for 2 minute youtube animations? Can I just go ahead and do an effort post even if the animation came out today?
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
I hate spoilers
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I can only think of one exception where Gorr the God Butcher was proposed 1 day early.
As for a 2 minute video, I got nothing.
Edited by 227someguy on Feb 16th 2024 at 1:42:00 PM
Everyone look at my sandbox
If it's like something the majority of people here don't really watch and wouldn't mind, I think it's okay. But it's probably best to ask first.
Collector of Worlds
to Lex. I find it funny how Corey Burton when from playing Brainiac to playing a guy fighting him.
Not the Eye
Lex
Liloupar and Luke
Goku Black
Alright started the totally spies mb page.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Sandbox/TotallySpiesMagnificentBastard
Time to add the examples in.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lies and Violence!
No to Luke, Yes to Lex.
What's the work?
Found one, maybe two more for Ninjago. To recap the premise: the show follows a team of Ninja in the titular land of Ninjago, led by their Sensei, Wu, as they protect the world from assorted threats. One of their most recurring enemies is Wu's brother, Lord Garmadon. While he's fun, he doesn't count in the show proper—though he performs brilliantly in the pilot and the first season, he then devolves into a frequently humiliated pawn, returns as a raging brute, and finishes off as a comically negligent father.
That's where the non-canon comics come in! Specifically the issue Stone Cold.
Who is Lord Garmadon?
The lord of darkness, corrupted many centuries ago by the embodiment of evil itself. Resisting the villainous urges brought about by this corruption for most of his life, Garmadon eventually succumbed to ambition and sought to steal the legendary Golden Weapons of his father, getting banished by Wu to the Underworld in the process. However, Garmadon managed to take over the undead realm, and began scheming his revenge.
Wu is obviously his biggest concern, so Garmadon sets about a plot to weaken him, orchestrating a mass breakout of the many, many villain he has imprisoned over the years. Garmadon proceeds to assert his rule over the villains, sending them after Wu one at a time with two plans in mind: to either tire Wu out so that he'll be unable to stand against Garmadon's return; or to inspire Wu to go on a crusade against all these foes, glutting him on victories so that he'll become overconfident and... well, be unable to stand against Garmadon's return.
This goes well for the most part. Garmadon magically abducts one of the villains when he nearly blabs the plot to Wu, but the final opponent his brother faces manages to successfully spill the beans, and Wu magically contacts him through a mirror. Through this connection to the mortal world, Garmadon sends out some of his essence to harass Wu—if he can't make Wu tired or overconfident, he'll just kill him then and there. They fight with illusions and magic water for a bit until Garmadon pulls his essence back through the mirror, shattering it and sending a rain of glass at Wu as a final attempt to end his life. It fails, of course, but Garmadon isn't too ruffled. Wu may know he's coming now, but he doesn't know when or where. And that's all he'll need to bring about his revenge.
Mitigating factors?
Like I said at the top, early Garmadon is as easy a keep as you could get. He's brilliant, charismatic, sassy, and all in all runs rings around everyone to always succeed with whatever it is he sets his mind to. Then season 2 runs around, and he devolves into an inept buffoon the likes of which would make Skeletor and Cobra Commander proud before getting effortlessly manipulated into becoming a possessed pawn of Satan.
This comic was published about a year after season 2, but it's impossible to reconcile with the timeline. The main plot is a flashback as Wu recounts his adventure to the Ninja, who need a pep talk after individually challenging and falling to Garmadon's new Stone Warrior mooks throughout the countryside... even though, in the show, the Stone Warriors were only terrorizing a single city for a single day before they were all mass-teleported elsewhere. So I feel pretty comfortable taking Garmadon's actions here as their own thing, and that his canonical screw ups shouldn't be considered.
With that in mind? Garmadon performs just as well as he did in the first season, enacting a massive revenge plot that Wu is only disable to discern the truth of at the very last minute, and even then, when Wu contacts his brother to confront him, Garmadon uses the opportunity to try to strike him down right there. Easy keep.
Not the Eye
Comic!Garmadon
Goku Black
comics Garmadon
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
I’m giving a hard ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]")
to that. Making your family screw each other out of spite seems like a hard disqualifying factor.
Everyone look at my sandbox