Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
Lies and Violence!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Violet, Constance, Six, Pilgrim, Frau and the Baron, the Rock playing the same character he's been for every other movie.
- Sportsmaster and Tigress, aka Lawrence "Crusher" Crock and Paula Brooks, are the delightfully evil yet wholesome brute killers of the ISA. Participating in Icicle's New America plan to create a better country for their daughter Artemis, the two serve as Jordan's most dreaded personal enforcers as they effortlessly battle their way through the new JSA, all while Crusher genuinely tries to befriend Pat Dugan through fitness advice. While eventually incarcerated with the ISA's defeat, the Crocks let not even prison stop them as they nonchalantly break out to visit Artemis during her college football tryouts, then break back in to appease the Whitmores. Later returning to help stop Eclipso, the Crocks legally secure their release despite their litany of crimes before moving back into Blue Valley, proving their worth as sincere friends and allies of the JSA as they reform to talk the Mahkents out of total war. Gleefully unrepentant of their past evils yet unconditionally loving and supportive of those they call their friends, the Crocks leave an undeniable impact on the Whitmore family, with Artemis continuing to carry on their legacy as she uses their lessons to avenge their deaths and become one of the greatest heroes of the new age.
Showtime!
to Pilgrim and the Young Frankenstein Duo
Yes to Black Adam in that case
Frau, Pilgrim, and Adam.
I have wrote ups for Victor and Galvin in the get help with English Here thread but they might not be checked until afternoonish tomorrow. Since they already have the votes, can I post my next ep bright and early a Monday morning, before those write ups are back?
Edit: Yes to Victor to, as long as your not doing the Broadway musical version of him.
Edited by Melinda on Jan 22nd 2023 at 4:40:57 AM
Since the time has come, gonna get Anamaria to the drafts now. Here's the writeup which was included in the EP. She'll go between Elizabeth and Tia on the Disney page in the Pirates folder.
I'll be sure to update the one for Adam too to add that detail I missed in there as well. EDIT: Actually, I'll post the update when the time comes.
Not my final great aunt actually, but still sad she's gone though. This came about a week after my second cousin once removed lost her husband—who had been very sick for a really long time.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 22nd 2023 at 5:56:18 AM
Yea to the Young Frankenstein duo, but yeah, Susie from Kirby doesn't keep. I don't think there's anything DQing about her attitude to Pop Star's endemic life, but the issue is as soon as she makes her move she is immediately out-manuevered by Star Dream.
Please just be mindful of thread activity and use good judgement when you’re looking to post more if they aren’t check Melinda.
Woagh
to Six, Frau, Frankenstein and The Pilgrim.
Gotta love Jaws!
to Six, The Pilgrim, Blucher and Frankenstein.
I'm sorry for your loss Future.
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
Ultimate Moral Compass
Six, Pilgrim, Frau (Neigh), Frankenstein, and his lovely monster
Hey, I was at a con these past few days (got to meet the English Spy X Family cast so that was cool). Now that I'm back, expect more EPs from me this week.
But one step at a time. I want to propose a duo from an EP I had planned for October until... well, you know.
What’s the Work
TerrorVision was a short-lived horror anthology that primarily aired in-between commercial breaks, each episode clocking in at around ten minutes each. They're basically low budget short films.
Our candidate comes from the episode "The Craving", where a fat businessman named Mr. Greenfield has to go to a dentist after a sudden toothache during an eating binge. He wants to immediately cure it, so he goes to a recently opened dentistry that only opens at night. And boy, is he in for a surprise.
Who is He?
Dr. A. Cula is a chipper dentist who is revealed at the end to actually be... Dracula (what a shock)!
What does he do?
Preferring to work in the evening, Dracula lures in customers to his new dentistry to turn them into vampires. Keeping up a good, fun attitude as he assures his clients that they won’t feel pain during their checkup, Dracula gives them anesthesia and bites them in their slumber.
When his latest client Mr. Greenfield tries to escape the office after being chased by his vampire staff, Greenfield manages to escape the dentistry, but he's attacked by Dracula, who was posing as a man reading a newspaper. Greenfield wakes up in the dentist office, his teeth now good as new. As he leaves, Greenfield goes feral and bites a random denizen who wanted to know if Dr. Cula is a good dentist. Not the best Yelp review.
Is he charming? Intelligent? Able to think on his feet?
Despite being the classical vampire himself, Dracula is able to successfully pose as a helpful dentist who is not only an expert on teeth, but is still able to fix his clients' problems... well, after he turns them into vampires, but still, the man's a professional.
Is he a bastard? Too much of one?
Despite his kind demeanor, Dracula's still a vicious vampire who has turned numerous innocents into vampires in order to feast on their blood.
But that said, he's not the vilest villain in the show, and out of all the show's antagonists, Dracula possesses the most charisma. Plus, he's damn good at this job.
Verdict?
Yet another Dracula under my belt.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Jan 22nd 2023 at 7:40:31 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Lies and Violence!
Dracula.
Shit, didn't mean to ignore this in my above post, my condolences for your loss future.
Yes to Dracula.
My condolences, Future.
Got it, 43.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Dracula.
That is awful, Future. Sorry.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
to Dracula. As said on the other thread my condolences Future
Dr. Frankenstein and Frau Blucher (neeeeiiiiiiggggh!!). A MB for Mel Brooks and Cloris Leachman, wild. More or less weird than Paris Hilton getting one? Condolences to FMW.
Alright, my first EP for my return was the one I intended for Halloween, before That Thing got in the way. Hope you enjoy her!
What's the work?
The latest installment of Scooby-Doo's yearly films, Trick or Treat Scooby-Doo! deals with Mystery Inc. finally answering their most vexing question - why do so many criminals dress in silly monster suits to cover up their nefarious deeds, anyway? Yes, we finally get an explanation for this, and it's not a coincidence...
Who is Coco Diablo? What has she done?
Premiere fashion designer to the underworld, Coco here is the Greater-Scope Villain behind the vast majority of foes Mystery Inc. has ever faced. It was she who first hit on the idea that crooks would be far more successful in getting away with their crimes if people believed their stomping grounds were haunted, and she's made a mint selling costumes and gear to society's scuzziest. Based in Mystery Inc's hometown of Coolsville all along, her factory includes, among other things, a pool of alligators that she frequently threatens her employees with if they're not performing up to snuff, and a giant paper-mache devil head that descends from the ceiling whenever she needs some privacy to hash things out with one of her "special" customers.
Obtaining the evidence necessary to bust her in the form of a unique fabric found on their latest fake monster collar, the Catman of Kathmandu, Mystery Inc. are able to arrest Coco by posing as potential customers. Fast forward a year, though, and the gang are absolutely miserable because now they have to take down totally mundane criminals like tax cheats rather than awesome monsters, while Coco has become a folk hero, writing several books about her stylish crimes and even being approached for movie deals! All that changes on Halloween Night, when the gang are attacked by ghosts that resemble undead versions of themselves in Victorian-era clothing, and they decide to consult Coco to see if she can help bring them in. The eccentric prison warden agrees, letting Coco out for the night with a tracking bracelet. Also, Velma seems to be falling in love with her, as she's just that diabolically charming.
As the night goes on, however, the gang begins to suspect Coco herself is involved, particularly once her former assistant reveals that the ghosts' costumes were made by him... and the order came from the prison! This is immediately followed by Coco getting her bracelet off and escaping to her factory. The gang tails her there, the ghosts accidentally fall into the alligator pit and are revealed to be robots, and Coco herself meets them and gives a very unconvincing confession while nudging them to notice somebody else hiding in the shadows... it's the warden! He's a huge fan of Mystery Inc. (since they keep the cells in his jail full at all times - yes, prison-industrial complex commentary in Scooby-Doo ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
) and came up with the entire thing to snap them out of their funk. His approval fills them with shame. He got Coco's compliance as fall-guy by... kidnapping her cat and threatening to spray him with a squirt-bottle.
However, as the gang restrains the warden, he accidentally hits a button on a remote he carries that shuts down all the prison security, resulting in every ex-foe of Mystery Inc. escaping and deciding to celebrate their newfound freedom by literally robbing all Coolsville's children of their Halloween candy. Coco comes to the rescue by giving monster costumes to the gang to scare the villains into surrendering. They're quickly rounded up, but when they refuse to give back the candy, Coco puts on the 10,000 Volt Ghost costume herself and shocks them into compliance. Thus cowed, the villains all go back to jail, including Coco... but not before she tells Velma that she's the first person she's ever liked as much as she likes herself. Aww?
Intelligent? Charismatic? Thinks on her feet?
She's behind every monster, at least the fake ones, ever seen on the show. All those brilliant and not-so-brilliant plans are only possible because of her costumes and gear. Befitting a fashion designer, she's the epitome of style and, as Megamind would say, PRE-ZEN-TAY-SHUNN! and even when she's arrested she manages to quickly turn it into a victory for herself, spin-doctoring her story to the public into that of a persecuted hero just from sheer Rule of Cool.
Really, the only thing I think might be an issue is that she gets brought to heel by someone threatening to squirt water on her cat. She doesn't stay on heel very long, mind, and quickly turns the tables on the warden, but I thought I should mention that.
Bastard? Too much?
She's effectively a crime boss who aids and abets everything from real estate fraud to armed robbery to kidnapping so long as she turns a profit. She never personally goes over any lines, though, and legitimately cares about... a few living beings, namely her cat and Velma.
Verdict?
If the thing with the squirt bottle isn't too much of a sticking point I can happily see her going up!
Edited by HamburgerTime on Jan 22nd 2023 at 10:23:40 AM
- Vinland Saga: King Canute begins the series as a weak and delicate prince coddled by his guardian Ragnar and despised by his father King Sweyn. After Ragnar's murder, Canute witnesses the horrors of battle and the futility of love on earth. Growing to despise God for toying with mankind, Canute vows to create a utopia on earth and grows substantially, using body doubles and preparing to overcome his father by allying with Asekladd. Upon becoming King when Askeladd kills his father, Canute proceeds to poison his brother Harald to take over Denmark. He then initiates a plot to take over the Ketil farm by framing the Ketils as outlaws and launching a full war against them with nothing to stand in the way of his dream.
- The Dragon Prince: Once a beloved figure, the Startouch elf Aaravos is now a prisoner in a magical realm and will stop at nothing to escape. A powerful mage who taught countless others magic, Aaravos was once discovered to be manipulating all the conflicts of the world for a purpose only he knew. Aaravos was then defeated and sealed away for centuries. Reaching out to the mage Viren, Aaravos uses him to plot the seeds of his return. Guiding Viren to the kingdom of the Sunfire elves, Aaravos then reveals himself and kills their queen before taking over the elves' own holiest places. Later guiding Viren's daughter Claudia back to life, Aaravos then takes over the hero Callum before releasing him with promises his return is inevitable.
Woagh
Sure to Coco. I'm willing to let the spray bottle thing slide, even disregarding her recovering from it well it doesn't seem too disqualifying for a wacky Scooby Doo film.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Jan 22nd 2023 at 9:15:21 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Lies and Violence!
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Dracula and Coco.
How many Scooby Doo keepers does this make?
Edited by Bullman on Jan 22nd 2023 at 11:45:24 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Woagh
I checked, actually. 5 from the animated shows from what I can see. I'm aware that Rav is looking into Mystery Inc for more btw.
Also I nearly missed evil dentist Dracula, there lmao.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I saw that there was only five from the shows as well but by my count this makes 9 for the franchise as a whole. This, 5 from the cartoons (as you already pointed out, Comic Scrappy, Dick Dastardly, and Dr. Jonathan Jacobo.
Edit: Maybe this is a question better for the cleanup thread. Moving it there.
Edited by Bullman on Jan 22nd 2023 at 12:12:06 PM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Alright time for my other Violent Night proposal, our resident Big Bad for the movie, "Mr Scrooge", real name Jimmy Martinez, played by John Leguizamo with a hammish flare.
Who is Mr Scrooge and what have he done?
As a child, Jimmy was well off until his father had lost his job, causing him to not be able to get any gifts for Christmas. Jealous of his neighbours, Jimmy breaks in and tries to steal the presents before accidentally startling the grandfather of the house, causing him to fall down the stairs and break his neck. Jimmy was arrested and developed a strong hatred for the festive holiday.
In the film proper, Scrooge puts together a team of mercenaries and orchestrates a plan to steal 300 million dollars from the Lightstone estate. To help break in, Scrooge has some of his mercenaries planted as servants so he's able to break in, killing the other servants in a coordinated fashion and gathering the family in the living room. While he had the family cornered, Scrooge finds the vault and starts to hack it open.
Discovering one of his dead mercs, Scrooge goes through the CCTV and sees Santa running away from but assumes it's a Mall Santa. Eventually Scrooge and two of his mercs track Santa down and interrogate him about who he is, Jimmy not believing he's the real Santa. When Trudy uses Styrofoam as fake snow to distract the mercs, something Jimmy realise, Santa manages to escape via chimney.
When the Lightstone's kill squad arrive, seemingly to stop the mercs, Scrooge greets them, revealing that they're part of the plan for a cut of the 300 mil. Heading down to the vault with squad leader Thorp, Scrooge discovers the 300 mil has already been taken. Heading to the family, Scrooge threatens to kill them unless whoever took it reveals themselves in which White Sheep of the family Jason does, taking Scrooge and Thorp to it.
With the money in his grasp, Scrooge decides to have the family killed to tie loose ends before Santa attacks and gives chase to Scrooge and Thorp via snowmobile, eventually crashing due to Scrooge tricking him into crashing. Scrooge and Santa later have a fight in which Scrooge discovers the naughty list and realises he's the actual Santa. Determined to put an end to Santa for the bitterness Scrooge gathered over Christmas, Scrooge almost gets the better of Santa before Santa uses magic to escape up a chimney, this time holding onto Scrooge. The result? Santa heads up no issue, Scrooge? Well...
Is he magnificent?
Scrooge orchestrates a master takeover of the Lighthouse estate and would've succeeded with his plan of obtaining the funds if it wasn't for the appearance of Santa coincidentally being there and Jason stealing the funds. Now Santa doesn't actually interfere with Scrooge's plans too much (until the shed pep talk) and Jason stealing the money? It's played off as a twist within the story as even the family wasn't aware. Scrooge also had the foresight to plan with the kill squad by paying them off so he's not limited with time.
His treatment of his mercs? Sure he doesn't really give a shit if they die but he's never threatening them or killing them. Now is his death bleakly comedic? Yes but it's a violent comedy and he's the Big Bad, the most violent death was gonna be reserved for him and he doesn't go out begging for his life.
Is he a bastard?
Well he wipes out all the staff and torments the Lightstone family. Why isn't this too bastardy? The Lightstone's are dicks lmao (apart from Jason, his wife and Trudy and even then he was willing to rob it for himself and his family) and their 300 mil wasn't legally obtained in the first place. There are some nastier qualities like Scrooge going through the family to decide which one to torture, eventually deciding to Groin Attack Jason...with a Nutcracker because it was the first thing he found and decided it's the quickest way of torture to make him talk. It's a darkly comedic scene, not played as some horrific tragedy.
Final Verdict?
Ultimately he's a Hans Gruber lite in terms of bastardry, which is why I don't think he's viable for CM but he has enough magnificence to be a constant threat for Santa so me thinks he's another
None of the other characters are worth discussing in the film IMO.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Mr Scrooge.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Yes to the Pilgrim, Frau Blücher (neigh) and grandpa Frankenstein. Great work man!