Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Tezcatlipoca, Tang Shuisheng, Lucifer, and Liz.
Bye
Liz
Take care, Scraggle.
Yes to Tezcatlipoca, Tang Shuisheng, Lucifer, and Liz
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
What ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
said.
RIP Toriyama
Yes to Lucifer and Liz
All the best to you, Scraggle!
Now...
Who is Gregor? What has he done?
- Ser Gregor Clegane is a knight of King's Landing defined by one thing: pure and utter violence.
- Already a psycho since youth who burned his younger brother Sandor's face half off because the boy took one of Gregor's toys, Gregor continued to be a homicidal nutbar for years following, known to have raped and murdered Elia Dorne, killing her children as well.
- Introduced in the present participating in a jousting competition where he deliberately targets his opponents to kill. He murders a man, nearly kills another, and viciously assaults + tries to murder Sandor when the brother stops his rampaging.
- Later dispatched to oversee a variety of sackings and raids for House Lannister, Gregor oversees an assortment of heinous war crimes, ranging from rape of women, to the murder of children to having the Tickler dish out horrific torture of peasantfolk one by one, from having them sawed in half vertically to having rats eat them from the inside out. Gregor executes multiple citizens in front of the rest day by day while taking many prisoners as slaves or further torture-fodder, perpetrating one of the worst mass-suffering campaigns that modern Westeros has seen. At one point an entire field is shown populated by hanging, brutalized corpses of victims.
Mitigating features?
Nada, he's an evil brute and bully with nothing nice to be said about him at all.
Heinousness?
For the first two books the graphic novel adapts, Gregor is plenty nasty, leading a horrific torture-rape-murder campaign against the lands that is portrayed with plenty of brutality.
Final Verdict?
Final one from the comic from me and easy yea
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Ramsay, Solego, Jarak (nice to see you again Forperson), David Cain, Tezcatlipoca, Tang, Lucifer, Liz and Ser Gregor Clegane.
Yes to Ser Gregor Clegane
Not the Eye
to Ser Gregor
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Clegane.
I'll try and get my dude tomorrow or Wednesday so the quartet can go this week. My dude's in one issue, and just like Ravok's trio counts in both the books and show.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Greg.
Rawr.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Gregor
The Ultimate Lifeform
to Gregor
I assume their writeups are going to be in the same order as those of their book counterparts because we list them by how soon they appeared:
Joffrey
Gregor
Ramsay
The fourth character (I already know who he is, but I am not going to spoil anything)
Edit: Hope your situation improves, Scrag!
And to Liz and Lucifer
Edited by WatTambor on Apr 17th 2023 at 3:06:58 PM
Man in the Yellow Hat
Alright, time to get that one candidate I asked about out.
What's the work?
One Helluva Broken Day is a Helluva Boss, Hazbin Hotel, and SCP Foundation crossover fanfiction, currently at 16 chapters and aiming for what seems to be far more (though it hasn't gotten updates in a while). It is set after SCP-001 (the sun one) activates, wrecking havoc on the living world and Hell. The fanfic mostly follows Justin, the lone survivor in Site-19, and his alliance with I.M.P., as well as the Hazbin Hotel dealing with the SCPs who evacuated to Hell via SCP-1879's company. However, there's many more characters involved, one of them being the C.H.E.R.U.B. members...who's one appearance up to this point is being tortured by the candidate.
Who is SCP-106 and what does he do?
Yep, it's the Old Man. The first mention of him states that he was busting out of containment again, before feeling the sun was about to break, tossing a bunch of guards into his pocket dimension. He then grabs hold of the Cherubs, burning Keenie, before tossing them into his pocket dimension in what seemed like a rescue on the outside.
That rescue turned out to be a cruel mercy, as the cherubs were forced to go through a World War One trench for the entire month between day breaking and the chapter they appear in. By the time we see the cherubs, they haven't even eaten the worms and maggots in weeks, are dehydrated to the point they can't even cry, see the Old Man if they ever close their eyes, and can't leave the trench due to it being the only source of relative safety. For individual effects, Collin has gone mad from the combined effects of looking at the plane and seeing SCP-106, even starting to develop what seems to be Stockholm Syndrome, while Cletus is an empty shell who's only emotion is hoping Heaven helps. Once Keenie closes her eyes, she sees the Old Man, causing her burns to flare up. The Old Man then appears, only worsening her condition, before jamming his thumbs into Cletus' eyes as both a sadistic joke about his pleas for heaven and out of genuinely wanting Heaven to hear, burning both of the cherubs eyeballs out. He then sinks into the ground, telling his victims to keep crying, so that there's a chance Heaven comes for them and "the real fun can start", leaving Collin, Keenie, and a still living Cletus to continue their march.
This is his one appearance, but in the next chapter, SCP-343 speculates that his end goal is ransoming the Cherubs to be banished into hell and get a new hunting ground.
Any Seeming Mitigating Factors?
Nope. First of, I doubt his tragic backstories count at all-not only due to the consensus in the discussions about them being they were writer-dependent, but since this story also has a defined canon and they're never mentioned, I wouldn't hold it against him even if it wasn't. As for anything else, he mentions he just wants to save the cherubs, but it's clearly a horrid joke at their state and not true given what he puts them through. As for personality, he's got enough-sadistic, faux affable, manipulative, pragmatic, and having a shit sense of humor. And while the story is ongoing, its been getting slower and slower in updates (the last chapter was nearly 9 months ago) and he's seemingly not set to come back in what the next one is planned to be.
The Heinous Standard?
Well, this is the SCP Foundation and Helluva Boss crossed over, so the standard is pretty high-a company that kills dozens of people, multiple malevolent SCPs that kill or psychologically torture people, and the Scarlett King making plans in the background.
That being said, I'd say he pretty handily meets it. The torture the cherubs endure is incredibly prolonged compared to everyone else (if I remember right, even his torture in the OG article never reached these levels), and the story thoroughly describes just how broken and tortured the cherubs are from what he put them through. That, the fact he chucked many agents into his dimension, and the fact he'll kill the people heaven sends to save them at best or get a new hunting ground at worst makes him heinous enough.
Verdict?
A pretty easy to another Old Man.
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Apr 17th 2023 at 10:33:13 AM
He/Him
Lucas the Dreamer
Several dozen pages ago I proposed a quote for Suguru Kamoshida (who has no quote listed) and Masayoshi Shido (whose current quote is just people discussing his crimes when Shido himself has a quote where he admits to feeling no remorse for killing countless people in order to advance his political career).
Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?
By the way, what is the work Gregor and Liz came from? Nothing shown or mentioned in the EPs.
Lizzid people!
Liz came from The Devil Conspiracy. Gregor's is A Song of Ice and Fire.
Edited by AustinDR on Apr 17th 2023 at 8:11:52 AM
By the way, to another Gregor.
Also found out Gregor has at least 2 CM incarnations. The new Gregor is from the same graphic novel as the Joffrey before is it?
Edited by Mr-ex777 on Apr 17th 2023 at 11:16:04 PM
RIP Toriyama
Yes he is
Sure to the Old Man
Ok, got one from a not-very-good horror I just watched...thanks, Tubi!
What's the work?
Cruiser is a 2016 found-footage horror film with a simple premise: a maniac murders a cop, steals his uniform, and goes on a bloody murder spree in a small town, kidnapping a woman in the process and forcing her to bear witness to his villainous ways.
Who is the Cruiser? What has he done?
- The titular "Cruiser", known by no other name, is a religious fanatic with an, uh, interesting take on faith: God is real, and everything happens for a reason...so he does whatever he wants with righteous, sadistic glee, bragging that if God wanted to, the Cruiser could be easily stopped, ergo Cruiser's killing spree must be God's will and the people he's killing meant to die.
- Nonetheless reveling in the fact that he's an evil, evil man who visits it upon the deserving and undeserving alike, the Cruiser starts the flick having already murdered at least one person to steal their car. When he's pulled over by Officer Chip in a small Georgia town, the Cruiser breaks his neck, steals his uniform, and begins prowling the streets.
- Burning a man alive by locking him in a car trunk and setting his car ablaze, the Cruiser pulls over and kidnaps Tara Strickland to force her to "bear witness" to his actions and become a "believer" in his philosophy that God Is Evil and his actions are just an extension of that.
- The Cruiser forces Tara to watch as he, in order: shoots a man in the head; bludgeons two teenagers to death; forces a group of teens to strip, psychologically tortures them to the point of wetting themselves, and sends them fleeing into the night naked; and takes a hatchet and gun to a convenience store and murders multiple occupants, torturing the last woman inside before killing her. Throughout it all, the Cruiser chops off hands, heads and other body parts of his victims that he throws into the backseat with Tara to further torment her.
- Though multiple cops finally corner the Cruiser and give Tara a Hope Spot, the Cruiser apparently justifies his own religious fanaticism as he slaughters the entire group of cops and, infuriated at Tara's continued defiance of his "message", finally kills her, as well.
- The film ends noting that the stolen cop car and uniform were finally found abandoned several states over, the Cruiser himself never found.
Mitigating features?
Nah, he's a religious whackjob whose motive comes down to "if God wanted me to stop he'd stop me so I must be following His will!" while being a cruel sadist nutbar. He, uh, "spares" one group of teenagers after scaring them half to death and forcing them to strip, but he openly mocks Tara's various altruistic reasonings for it, chalking it up to "only God and I know why they're still alive.", amounting it to a whim since he previously had no problem horribly killing a teenaged couple moments ago.
Heinousness?
Dude's a Spree Killer who offs over a dozen people throughout the flick in brutal ways, including teenagers, and is indicated to have been at it before the film and continuing after.
Final Verdict?
Keeper
Edited by Ravok on Apr 17th 2023 at 9:35:16 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Based on the EP, to that version of Gregor—the Mountain.
I was concerned about the whole "God doesn't care so the people I'm killing deserve to die" thing, but he does sound like he enjoys his evilness and openly admits that his view of God is that of an evil God. So, he does several times admit that what he does is bad.
Though, is he sane enough?
RIP Toriyama
Yeah, he's not portrayed as any more nuts about his religion than any fanatic who comes through here, the major point of difference being that, instead of "Knight Templar who thinks he's doing God's will", he falls under "Card-Carrying Villain who thinks he's doing God's will" ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
Lucifer
"No running in the halls!"