Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Goku Black, Frieza and Pellegrin
Ultimate Moral Compass
Okay, so here's the final Hooker EP. After this, I'll provide links for my other Hooker EPs and go over who, after some consideration, is and isn't going to actually make the cut.
Who is He?
Julio Fuente, from Season 3’s "Gang War", is an arms and drug dealer who hopes to start a war between the Ocho Supremos and Primos gangs in order to sell weapons.
What has he done?
As an ex-Primos leader himself, Julio ultimately doesn’t care how many people end up dying in his upcoming war, just as long as he gets to sell his guns. Julio has his people pose as Ochos to shoot at the Primos leader Chuy to initiate the gang war, then has Julie, leader of the Ochos, shot in the back when peace between the two factions is attempted.
Julio regularly thrives on causing trouble in the streets, as it feeds people’s desire to purchase guns from him, even getting kids to hustle dope in order to fund his arms business. As Hooker put it, "When things heat up in the street, you get rich."
When his war looks to be simmering, Julio plans to kill Chuy’s girlfriend Maria and pin it on the Ochos, which almost results in a big gunfight between the two gangs that would've resulted in a lot of deaths. When the gangs come together for their big battle, before anyone could fire the first round, Hooker swoops in to stop them, and like so many villains, Julio ends up being arrested at the end of the episode.
Redeeming Qualities?
None.
Heinousness?
My only concern with Julio is that not many people die in his war. Most of the people he has killed still survive, albeit injured.
But given how Julio's known for being willing to cause a lot of chaos for the sake of profit, even if it means killing people from his own gang, it adds an extra layer of cruelty to his actions that not many villains in the show have.
Also the amount of potential casualties is taken into consideration. When both gangs are about to commence their potential gunfight, we see more than a dozen of them. More than a dozen people were going to be foolishly killed thanks to Julio, and he wouldn't have cared. This makes Julio the worst Arms Dealer on the show, as none of the others can match his potential body count.
Conclusion
Tentative keep imo
Edited by therealjackieboy on Apr 3rd 2023 at 10:29:09 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Astolfo my Man
Julio
Barb / Temporary Kylo
to Trout, Black and Bernard
Not the Eye
to Julio
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Is there any indication innocents would die in the Gang War? We cut Crow from that Def Jam game for that reason.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Julio
Okay to celebrate my return I have a character from a game I finished playing The Medium. I also gone over my EP with 43110 in PMs so pretty confident to post my candidate now.
What’s The Work?
The Medium is a Psychological Horror game that takes place in 1999 Poland and follows Marianne, a medium who can travel into the spirit realm. She receives a phone call from a stranger that promise to tell her about her origins if she goes to Niwa, an abandoned resort. She goes there and investigates what happen to the resort, eventually learning about the culprit behind the resort’s tragedies, The Maw.
Who is He? What Has He Done?
The Maw is a sadistic and malevolent monster who serves as the Big Bad of the game. Born as a result of Lilianne having been molested by Richard, The Maw would torment Lilianne’s mind to drive Lilianne into freeing The Maw so that it can room free to do what it wants. The Maw would seize the opportunity for freedom when Henry Wilk sets the house she and her sister Marianne were inside on fire, telling her to free it so that it could save her and her sister.
Lilianne would give into The Maw’s demands where it saves Lilianne and Marianne, where Lilianne was kept quarantined in an underground bunker and by Thomas so imprison the Maw due to the latter still being connected to Lilianne, while Marianne would go into a coma due to the incident before getting adopted by Jack.
The Maw would eventually use Lilianne to break out of the bunker, where it then abandons Lilianne and head over to the Niwa Resort where it would initiate a massacre there it would posses people (or in it’s words where their skins) and use them to brutally and gruesomely kill people (including killing one what was in a comatose state) before leaving its hosts when body to break down and wilt away leaving them as rotten dead corpses that appeared mutilated from the inside. The event was known as, The Niwa, where dozens, if not more so, where slaughtered by the Maw, including children, with only very few survivors while the resort was shut down as a result.
When Marianne arrives at the abandoned Niwa Resort in search for answers, The Maw recognizes Marianne as a Medium and Lilianne’s sister while believing her to be a better more powerful vessel that could contain The Maw’s spirit and free it from Lilianne’s hold. As such, it relentlessly pursues Marianne throughout the where it attempts to possess her in a painful and agonizing way.
While escaping the Maw and learning more about her past, Marianne would meet her sister Lilianne who tells her that she had to suffer as a result of The Maw’s actions, and implores Marianne to kill her so that she can finally kill off the Maw for good due to her connection with the monster.
The Maw then arrives an attempt to posses Marianne so that it could sever it’s connection with Lilianne and be free to commit murder wherever it goes, while it would kill Lilianne presumably since it wouldn’t need her anymore. However Marianne thinks of a solution by killing herself to deny the Maw a proper host. The game then ends with a gunshot unclear if Marianne killed Lilianne to officially end The Maw’s life or if she kill hersefl to deny The Maw a proper host.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming Qualities? Other Militating Factor?
Okay so the Maw was created as a result of what Richard did to Lilianne. That said that is a sympathetic backstory FOR Lilianne, NOT the Maw, and the Maw itself is never given any sympathy nor is never given any evidence that it was Made of Evil or nor is it’s moral agency affect, especially since spirit beings can have moral agency if they are given enough individuality as shown with Spirit Thomas who despite coming across as a jerk does care for Thomas and his daughters even pulling a Heroic Sacrifice to delay The Maw. Given that we’ve loosen restrictions regarding moral agency gives me confidence that the Maw can pass here.
In fact The Maw loves being a deplorable monster and enjoys killing living things in gruesome fashions whether that be animals like deer, children, and people, using tactic is lure its prey whether it be feigning sadness for being lonely to lower Marianne’s guard before grab her to forcibly possess her as a vessel, before sadistically chasing her throughout the game exclaiming that he’s happy he’s found someone's skin to wear after so long, while throwing tantrums if it fails to capture her.
The only saved Lilianne and Marianne from the house fire because she would free him if he does so reason why it didn’t kill Lilianne and Marianne is because for it’s spiritually tethered to Lilianne and the Maw would die if Lilianne dies and is aware Marianne is a medium it could posses in the future when it sees her a way to severe it’s connection with Lilianne if it latched on to Marianne, eagerly and gleefully insulting Lilianne by calling her “old skin suit” and would need her anymore, and would kill Lilianne once its done possessing Marianne, and discard Marianne to find another host if it outgrows her. So yeah nothing redeeming there.
Heinousness
Now both Richard and Henry Wilk are pretty bad people themselves with the former being a child molester who sexually abused Lilianne (and possibly other children), while Henry is an agent whose killed and tortured people for the Polish government and burns down the house with Thomas’ children inside it. That said Richard has a Dark and Troubled Past where he lost his father in WWII, abused by his stepfather, and his childhood friend, Rose, was executed by Nazi, while Henry has a son whom he genuinely loves.
That said The Maw serves as an independent monster and the Big Bad here where is atrocities are front and center, where it caused the Niwa Massacre where dozens (if not more so) are kill and butchered by the Maw in horrific and gruesome manners, including children, with it’s MO being that of possessing people to kill other people before leaving its hosts where they ended up becoming contorted rotted corpses, while the spirits of its are trapped in the Niwa’s spirit world in agony and the setting there consist of flayed skin and corpses contorted in pain, of all which Lilianne is fully aware of and causes her immense suffering to the point she begs to die just to end The Maw’s rampage before The Maw possesses Marianne and discards Lilianne. Overall having the highest onscreen body count and the most horrific MO allows it to stand out in my opinion.
Final Verdict?
I will leave it to you guys to decide
Edited by G-Editor on Apr 3rd 2023 at 1:51:46 PM
Astolfo my Man
The Maw
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Julio's mainly roping gangsters who've done nothing to him into a pointless war, knowing they'll die with hopes of making money off of it. He's kinda like Clark Redmond in that aspect.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Apr 3rd 2023 at 10:51:48 AM
"No running in the halls!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to the Maw, I guess sure to Julio as well.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
to Leah, Waakzaam the Great, Lokai, Frieza, Goku Black, Sir Bernard Pellegrin, Julio Fuente and the Maw.
Abstain on Agent Trout.
Edited by MGD107 on Apr 3rd 2023 at 11:47:06 AM
Caesar
Yes to Julio and Frieza
And here's mine from Tales from the Crypt...from the episode "Television Terror", where sleazebag, television-based, paranormal schlock investigator Horton Rivers decides to check out a legendary haunted house, with unfortunate results...
Who is Ada Ritter? What has she done?
- Ada Ritter was the caretaker for a boarding home for the elderly, where she presented herself as a kindly provider for those who rented her rooms.
- Actually? In the name of "greed, lust or bloodthirst", Ritter began killing those who would stay at her abode so she could steal her social security checks, flashbacks showing how she would push her patrons down stairs; stab them to death; and slash their throats in the bath, among other methods, before chopping their bodies up with a chainsaw and hiding them in her basement.
- Killing at least a dozen men before committing suicide, Ritter's spirit continued to haunt her boarding home along with those of her victims. When Horton hosts his latest live episode of supernatural investigations at her house, Ritter and the ghosts terrorize Horton and his crew, culminating in Ritter killing Trip, Horton's cameraman, before viciously maiming Horton with her chainsaw and throwing him out the window where he is hanged by rope to death, leaving the viewers of his show a truly haunting image to cement his legacy in a different way than Horton ever intended.
Mitigating features?
Nah, none. She was a greedy and bloodthirsty serial killer of over a dozen people, and no reason is ever given for her suicide and continuing haunting crimes beyond For the Evulz.
Heinousness?
Killed at least a dozen men in the past and then slaughters Horton and Trip in the present, giving her a bodycount of at least 14 which is more than enough for the show.
Final Verdict?
Yes, and thanks to Lighty for showing me this one!
Edited by Ravok on Apr 3rd 2023 at 12:05:09 PM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Ultimate Moral Compass
Ada
Not the Eye
Yes to Ada!
Astolfo my Man
Ada
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Ada. A rare Tales Karma Houdini.
Also, I'll say again that it's a shame Uncle Ezta doesn't have enough of a body count. Dude's VILE.
Edited by ACW on Apr 3rd 2023 at 3:16:36 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Maw, Ada
Yes to the Maw but at this point? No to Julio. He doesn’t stick out near enough to the morass of murderers and serial rapists we’ve got. At this point I feel some lines have to be drawn and we need to start cutting these. A lot of crimes have blended together to the point I’m really only seeing 3-4 max keeping
to Ada Ritter.
Based on the EP, to Pellegrin. First indeed for Bill Nighy. Good job Lighty.
Still meaning to get that Legend of the Guardians one voted on, but fell off it. Sorry about that.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Honestly, Julio I'm fine on since he's trying to start a Gang War. It's like the 3 or 4 serial rapists that are the issue for me.
The Draftsman of Doom
I simply don't find Julio that heinous with a bunch of human traffickers, rapists and killers around. That's my vote.
to Ada, Julio, and the Maw.
Abstain on Trout.
