Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
What's the work?
"Enter the Fanatic, Stage Centre", is a work by Harlan Ellison where a mysterious stranger comes to town and things play out much like Needful Things. It's a short so I'll dive right in.
Who is "Gunther Duvoe"? What has he done?
Standing out in the town of Prince where no one wears a beard, he arrives to supernaturally unnerve the people, especially the local Reverend. After having the vice president of the town's Better Business Bureau advise him on the most seen location in Prince for his art gallery, Duvoe sets up camp in a hotel room where the shower is always strangely running... things take a weird turn when after he painstakingly creeps about Prince with intense fascination paintings start popping up in his gallery displaying the townsfolk's innermost secrets: people are outed in the bigoted Prince for being half-black, lesbians, in affairs and impotent. This results in growing dissatisfaction, unrest and the VP of the BBB being shot dead by the Mayor for sleeping with his daughter.
In his magnum opus, Duvoe puts up a painting depicting a crime from years ago when a group of bigoted vigilantes in Prince burned a German couple to death during World War II and a riot breaks out, with those disgusted by the crime tearing the town apart and killing the arsonists. Maddened by the violence, the Reverend sneaks into Duvoe's hotel room to kill him and shoots him in the temple... to no effect. Revealing himself as a proud agent of evil, Duvoe shoots the holy man dead and reveals his MO is to stir up chaos from town to town, murdering the Reverend to make off and turns off his shower, the story noting the smell of sulphur as he does... exit the fanatic.
Heinousness?
Many of the townsfolk are assholish but Duvoe basks in whipping up the frenzy and watching the death and destruction... the work ends making it clear he's been doing this for a long time and will continue doing so.
Mitigating factors?
He claims to be the son of the German couple who died... then mocks the Reverend, admitting it's a lie and he just loves the chaos before killing him.
Verdict?
Yes to proto-Gaunt.
Edit: Fixing title.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Thanks, got it!
Edited by PassingThrough on Apr 14th 2024 at 12:45:58 PM
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Gunther
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
That's a yes.
(Also, I hate to be that guy, but it's "Enter the Fanatic, Stage Center".)
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Duvoe
Not the Eye
for Gunther Duvoe.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Lizzid people!
Duvoe Aka Leland Gault's Expy
Edited by Revenant30 on Apr 14th 2024 at 12:48:54 PM
The Draftsman of Doom
King of the Koopas
Found another spider man chronicles keeper and it’s a canon CM so it should come as no surprise that he should count
Whats the Work?
The Spider-Man Chronicles Trilogy by megamatt09 is a fanfiction trilogy retelling of spider man mainly based on the spectacular spider man series though it also borrows elements from other spider man properties
It's also a Gateway Series for readers as it's written in a manner that you won't need prior knowledge the Marvel Universe to read it.
Who is he?
The Red Skull as always is the Arch-Enemy of Steve Rogers aka Captain America and the Arc Villain of World On Edge.
What has he done?
Red Skull is a nazi who masterminded the slaughter of countless during World War 2 Red Skull also kept count and kept detailed records of every man, woman, and child that he murdered.
The Red Skull and Captain America fought to the finish on a brutal June afternoon. The Skull was being chased for weeks, as his subordinates lost one by one to Captain America but before he could flee Europe, Cap caught up with him. Cap survived while the Red Skull seemingly perished.
Out of all of the horrors that the Red Skull accomplished during his reign before Captain America thwarted him was creating a Doomsday Weapon beyond anything that has been seen before or has since been seen.
Red Skull Is revealed to have survived and is working with Mr sinister Electro and Miles Warren to complete the Doomsday device with the help of a few scientists he kidnapped.
Captain America reveals what the weapon does to spider man here
Captain America: “It causes slight imbalances in the magnetic structure of the earth, which essentially creates a simulated black hole, if that monster gets his hands on a lot of power, he could do some serious damage, swallowing some of the largest cities in the world in a matter of moments," ”.
Red Skull then appears and makes his announcement demanding that every world leader turn control of their nations over to him and attacks a farm in Kansas as a warning to anyone who dares to oppose him.
Red Skull also devastates entire city’s for every hour not spent turning control of nations over to him.
It’s shown though Magnetos flashbacks that Red Skull was responsible for the holocaust that Magneto went through as a young child.
And Red Skull killed Peter’s parents years ago.
Red Skull encounters Nick Fury gloating that Washington will be annihilated.
When Spidey Wolverine and cap arrive Skull orders Sabertooth to destroy them.
Red Skull then has cap apprehended gloating that he should not have come back to face him.
Red Skull orders Professor ohnn to activate the device.
The heroes destroy the Doomsday device thankfully and defeat skull getting him to jail with spidey being hailed as a hero and getting rid of his Hero with Bad Publicity for once.
Freudian Excuse or redeeming qualities?
Dude it’s red skull what do you expect he’s not gonna have any.
Heinous Standard?
masterminded the slaughter of countless during World War 2
kept count and kept detailed records of every man, woman, and child that he murdered.
Killed Peter’s biological parents
Put a young Magneto through the Holocaust
Builds a Doomsday Device that creates Black Holes using it to destroy entire city’s to force the Worlds leaders to surrender control of their nations over to him.
Final Verdict?
Keep this nazi bastard obviously.
The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil
Not the Eye
Red Skull
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Now Skull, I have no problems with.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
pronounced 'Scraggle'
- Poor Things: General Alfie Blessington was the husband of Bella Baxter's previous life as Victoria Blessington. A Sociopathic Soldier with an inclination to inflicting pain for pain's sake, Alfie regularly torments and maims his own servants, breaking their arms and in one case threatening to shoot a manservant in the face for improperly preparing a meal. When he gets his hands on Bella, he decides to keep her prisoner, cut out her clitoris to kill her libido, then rape her until she fathers him an heir, all under pain of Bella's death should she attempt to escape. Bella concludes that Alfie's cruelty was such that Victoria decided to kill herself with her unborn child rather than continue living with him.
....Phenomenal
for Rosa, Krause, Duvoe, and Red Skull.
for Red Skull.
Lies and Violence!
Tad busy at the mo, give me some time to read and vote.
What's the work?
Renegade Nell is a recent Disney+ series about a young British woman Nell Jackson, who goes on the run after being framed for murder. With the help of her sisters, a sleazy highwayman, a pixie that grants her superpowers, and some other friends, she sets out to prove her innocence, unwittingly stumbling across a greater plot on this journey.
Who is the Earl of Poynton?
A practitioner of the dark arts, one of the most trusted advisors to the queen, and secretly a Jacobite aiming to rule through James Stuart. Poynton is a close friend to Thomas Blancheford, a spoiled son of a magistrate who is vexed by his father trying to rein in his bullheaded cruelty to the local townsfolk. Poynton advises him to take what he wants, so when Nell humiliates him with pixie-induced powers, Thomas plans his revenge by beating and executing her father, then having him framed as a poacher.
Poynton finds that "trivial", however. If Thomas wants true power, then Poynton advises that he needs to commit to drastic actions. So, when Nell accuses the Blanchefords of covering for Thomas, Thomas kills his own father. His sister, Sofia, is in the room when this happens, but in order to protect her brother from the noose, she has Nell framed for the crime.
This sparks Poynton's interest. Thomas quickly becomes consumed by guilt and is reduced to a wreck, so Sofia heads up the manhunt. Noticing potential in her, Poynton agrees to help, but his efforts to hunt Nell with his magic end up backfiring and leave him unable to wield his powers. Still, he uses this to get closer to an intrigued Sofia, recruiting her as his apprentice and accomplice.
He explains to her that his ambitions are grand. The queen, he claims, is ruining Britain, introducing reforms that will give ordinary people a voice in Parliament. This disgusts Poynton, and he aims to bring their country back to its true glory. He frames the captain of the queen's guard as a Jacobite to have him executed, ensuring command of the royal bodyguard falls to Poynton. From there, he intends to kidnap the queen and open the way for the forces of James Stuart to invade. Poynton has been a close servant of the boy king since he was a baby, so when James is on the throne, Poynton will become his closest advisor, free to shape Britain as he sees fit.
Unfortunately for his schemes, Sofia notices in the final episode that Thomas is getting even worse. She confronts Poynton, who reveals that the act of patricide taints the soul—which can then be painfully extracted to boost one's power. Due to the risks involved with his own damaged state, he initially offers this power to Sofia, but when she obviously refuses he decides to brave the risks and begin draining Thomas' soul for himself.
Fighting with Nell ensues, Thomas is freed, and Sofia backstabs Poynton herself.
Heinous enough?
What he actually gets up to his pretty indirect, encouraging Thomas to become a murderer with only mild interest in the outcome. Trying to subsequently torture and kill Thomas for his soul is pretty bad, but not enough for this trope.
However, his ultimate plans are plenty bad enough. James' invasion is explicitly called out as a war that will see hundreds dead, and since James himself is a child (and never onscreen, at that) Poynton is given credit as the mastermind of the whole thing.
Mitigating factors?
Any merit to his political ideology? Nada. The Jacobites are portrayed as "greedy hypocrites" who want power, and Poynton outs himself as an elitist, classist asshole. Despite claiming to have known James Stuart since he was a baby, there's no emotional attachment to him, and it's clear Poynton only wants him on the throne as a Puppet King.
Care for Sofia or Thomas? Nyet. He corrupts and tortures the latter without care, and while he trains Sofia and offers her great power, it's only so he can have a powerful ally and not risk straining his own abilities. Once she refuses, he retakes the power for himself and begins beating her without batting an eye.
He also shows disagreement for his colleagues' sexism, but nothing indicates that's from a moral stance. He just acknowledges that women can wield power that could aid their cause, and even then, is fine to placate their biases by kicking Sofia out of their meetings.
Verdict?
Easy yes.
Not the Eye
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the Earl.
With thanks to Ravok for throwing this one to me, here's another Palpatine. This will be a super quick one. From "What If the Younglings Saved Anakin Skywalker During Order 66
":
Who is he and what has he done?
Anakin and co. launch an assault on the Jedi Temple during Order 66, massacring all inside. However, when he went into the room with Younglings, he has a change of heart, and is unable to kill them.
Anakin leaves the temple, and orders the troops to leave. Feeling remorse, and confronts Palpatine, also realizing that Palpatine tried to have Padme killed. The two fight, but Palpatine is much stronger, and says he won't kill Anakin right away, but will first have him watch the Empire take over the galaxy, Padme die, and their child become Sidious's servant. Then he would kill Anakin. Yoda eventually kills Sidious.
Palpatine hears of the Jedi Temple survivors, but realizes he can use them, giving them hope as Sith and then killing them.
Heinousness?
Palpatine's not Emperor yet, but he still launches Order 66, plus has his personal crimes against Anakin.
Mitigating Factors?
It's Palpatine.
Final Thoughts?
It's Palpatine.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
Palpatine number who even cares at this point ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
A Child from the Stars
for Earl and (gasp), another Palpatine? So shocking!
Palpy, the Earl
I dunno, this Palpatine seems a fairly understanding guy with plenty of moral compasses and- Oh, who am I kidding? Obvious easy to Palpatine.
Ok
The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil