Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Cut Nicky
Has anyone seen the Kirby (Light Novel)?
I found a version of Star Dream that unlike the original isn't said to be a slave to their programing or only to have gained sentience when controlling Haltmann with it being shown to have manipulated Haltmann as a fool when he just wanted his daughter back.
Edited by umaprasis on Jan 10th 2024 at 3:27:43 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I like that second quote, but my ONLY issue is that it's from Cap, and it's from a work that's not exclusive to him. Then again, the quotes at Spider-Man & Ghost Rider are similar, so, I guess it's fine?
EDIT: Wet, the cannibalism stunt is nasty, but I'm not quite sure it pushes him over the edge (even ignoring 'Cuda). To me, it's one of those cases where one thing could be discounted, but between that, his backstory, and his (possible) Pet the Dog, the cumulative factor is just too against him keeping.
Edited by ACW on Jan 10th 2024 at 6:41:00 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
I have been meaning to read the translations of that series and just forgot.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Definitely cut Nicky, even aside from the stuff with his aunt being incredibly hard to gloss over, his stand-out crimes of feeding a son to his father and holding a kid at gunpoint against Punisher pale next to Barracuda nearly murdering an infant, Rawlins threatening a father to rape and murder his son, a random couple Punisher whacks in two pages forcing their children into adult videos, the Geautreauxs committing cannibalism on a wider scale, etc... outside of that, his kills are cops and other criminals, which is standard fare for this comic. Also, the scene where he pays off a witness could be discarded as bribery, but the "poor guy fought in a war" line really seems like Cavella showing a twinge of unsolicited sympathy.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
BTW, Ravok, if we do use that quote from Cap, which of the work's issues is it from?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
Blood & Glory #4!
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Showtime!
This good for a Sandbox.Former Complete Monsters writeup?
- Warhammer 40K: Kor Phaeron (Has genuine affection for Lorgar)
Edited by Libraryseraph on Jan 10th 2024 at 7:59:16 AM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Classy, Refined, Unstable
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Looks alright to me.
Edited by WetFlannels on Jan 10th 2024 at 1:28:19 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
#4? There's a 4th issue?
Edited by ACW on Jan 10th 2024 at 8:37:05 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
RIP Toriyama
Apologies, #3, got it mixed up with another miniseries lol
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Aight guys I've finished Love And Monsters and I think Cap's (One of G's guys) still good. I read the EP and while there's no discernible count of settlements Cap has raided, it's quite clear it's a pattern for him and while he's chummy with his two cohorts. It's not to a mitigating degree IMO.
So I'll leave you guys a choice, either we can use the current writeup or a possible rewrite?
Current
- Cap leads a crew of pirates in raiding defenseless settlements and stealing their supplies, before wiping them out. Capturing a giant mutated crab, Cap subjects it to Electric Torture, forcing the crab to kill and eat innocent people on Cap's behalf. Manipulating a colony filled with elders into trusting him, Cap uses poisonous berries to knock them out before tying them up for the crab to devour and forces the crab to attack hero Joel Dawson and Aimee when they try to rescue them; Cap also orders one of his subordinates to kill Joel's dog, Boy, when the latter tries to help Joel and Aimee fend off the crab.
- Captain "Cap" Brooks Wilkinson is the leader of a trio of scavengers who hides his callous personality behind a front of friendly civility. Visiting colonies, Cap manipulates them into thinking that he's providing them a new life out in the world whereas in fact he's only after their supplies. Having captured a giant mutated crab and keeping it under constant abuse via Electric Torture, Cap has it devour the settlement's inhabitants once he's done stealing their loot. Drugging the people of settlement 3022, a colony of mostly elders, Cap has them tied up to be devoured alive by the crab — also ordering one of his subordinates to shoot at Joel's dog when the latter tries to hinder his plans.
Showtime!
We good to leave the former Gaunt's Ghosts CM under lit on the Former page, or do we want to make a Warhammer tree in other media
Edited by Libraryseraph on Jan 10th 2024 at 9:14:28 AM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
The Emperor of Evil!
Okay... Considering the scenerio we are in with Echidna and G, I thought I should bring this up that I did which I'm not proud of. I should've done this a long time ago... So in my early days on this thread, I did Sugarman way back in my early days on the thread when I was still learning how things work here...
So uhh, about that? I never... Really read the comics he appears in, this was when I tried proposing the Marvel version of Heinrich Himmler who also got downvoted when I said I never read those comics. I am deeply, deeply sorry for not telling you all this sooner I should've done it beforehand.
So I say cut him and let someone else who actually did read his comics to do him instead. If this gets me punished and/or lose trust in me, I understand. I will say, thankfully after the Himmler stuff that happened I actually do read the comics, movies etc instead of reading some articles about them (my first proposal, the Elseworld Luthor I did I got help from Ordeaux who showed me where to find the comic for me to read). Regardless, I am truly sorry for this and causing ya'll trouble, and hopefully someone else can do him properly...
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jan 10th 2024 at 10:16:00 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Bazil?
Also if you've not read it Power I'm fine with cutting the Sugarman for now (unless someone can verify it.) Thanks for the honesty there.
Also any opinions on my post about Cap?
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Gentle Laborer
Bazil is Echidna.
Cut Sugarman, and props to you for being honest.
The Emperor of Evil!
I forgot he goes by Echidna here, yeah Bazil is Echidna's other name on other sites.
I think Cap's expanded writeup looks good, Wet.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Jan 10th 2024 at 10:20:09 AM
As long as everything goes well, it'll be fine!
Well, Always Chaotic Evil technically makes the lack of a moral agency within the subculture/race/species of whatever it is applied on, and we know that (the younger) Princess Shroob from Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time is a particularly cruel, vile and heinous, and the part of "The Sociopath" on her character page says that her motivation aside from taking over the Mushroom Kingdom of the past - is that she's finding home for her dying race. Granted, it's an Always Chaotic Evil race, and while we know that she didn't care about her older sister, and while she does yell at her subjects, it's her older sister is revealed to kill her own henchmen as seen in one of the final boss battles - while the younger one doesn't ever do it. (And this is after like the CM entries in the YMMV page of the work has been modified several times, so there were attempts to rewrite until we get to the current "Princess Shroob is CM" entry.)
Therefore, I found a crack and weak spot in whatever claim pushing (the younger) Princess Shroob as a Complete Monster. If possible, maybe this wasn't even the
Feel free to discuss if any counter-arguments to keep the example, maybe issue a rewrite suggestion to support the claim better, or whether this is a valid migitating factor that counts as a strike to the CM status.
Edited by JustNormalMusicLover on Jan 11th 2024 at 12:38:26 AM
How many games got ported into Nintendo Switch? A lot of them.
Cut Sugarman.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Keep the younger Shroob Princess, that feels like alternative character interpretation.
It was addressed here.
Edited by MasterJoseph on Jan 10th 2024 at 9:15:24 AM
IPP Wick Check created.
RIP Toriyama
I'd say keep Shroob, with how she treats her people, "finding a new home for her race" just equates to "find a new world to lord over".
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
As long as everything goes well, it'll be fine!
Ah nevermind, changed my mind. She's still the cream of the crop of her species cruelity, and so heinous that she's exempt from the "Woobie Species" speculation on the Shroobs themselves in the YMMV page. If that's how the audience reacts, I guess we can call this a particularly heinous exception even through the otherwise questionable agency problems that were posed.
On a side note though, I think the trope description could be improved, and there are some that might be the case but haven't got a context to put on the trope. And the descriptions on some of the tropes are one-liners, so I suppose the trope entries could be reworked.
Edited by JustNormalMusicLover on Jan 12th 2024 at 4:51:22 AM
How many games got ported into Nintendo Switch? A lot of them.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
I’m going to reserve My Impossible Soulmate if everyone is okay with it
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Cut Sugarman.
Yeah that's fine with me.
Cut Sugarman.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Wet's rewrite.
Snip Nicky, and a yeah for me on the second quote.