Needs Help: Queer Media

Queer Romance is a genre defined by the presence of queer relationships. The queerness is central to that genre classification, which is why that index should be a suborder of Queer Media.

I should be clear that I'm proposing abandoning the whole concept of "relevance" as a criteria, and instead focus only on stories that are about being queer.

We should have a cleanup for deciding examples. The important here thing is to decide standards.

Like what we did for Bad Writing Index.

Didn't we run a crowner to decide items? Not that we can do that here, since this is a work index, and that was a trope index.

I don't think we need a crowner for items on this. This is a work index that should have a fairly objective definition, once we decide what it is.

Cleaning up some of the tags, we could put in the description “For the purposes of this index, Queer Media generally deals with:” and then add “Coming out, queer romance, homophobia, gender dysphoria/euphoria, etc”

Seconding selkies's idea of two separate indices of Queer Themed Media and Queer Related Media.

Edited by MegaJ on Aug 7th 2021 at 1:12:09 PM

What does "queer related" mean? Is it just any work with a queer character?

Two indices would be a terrible idea right now. We'd be right back where we started.

I'm honestly not into having a "Queer Related Media" index if that's indeed what it means. If the work doesn't have it as an actual focus, then it shouldn't be listed at all. Again, people, there are works with LGBT characters, but their involved interests do not constitute the central focus of said works, as these by themselves aren't queer media because it is not their intention to focus 24/7 on queer themes.

The most important part is that, currently, the index Queer Media already has this criterion in the description, so whatever proposals we have should work in the lines of that.

EDIT: Added one more arrow because I'm slow like a turtle.

Edited by MyFinalEdits on Aug 9th 2021 at 1:34:50 PM

We should just weed through the examples and put a note on the page that the work should be about sexuality and/or transgender identity, not just have any character who isn't cishet.

Yannow, folks, misuse isn't the reason for the existence of this thread.

Yeah, the split would be cool for works that primarily focus on one perspective. I already wanna make Transgender Works sometime in the future.

But if there is a disagreement about the scope/purpose of the index, are we not allowed to work it out in this thread? The post you link even links to the old thread, which ended with no real resolution.

Edited by TheMountainKing on Aug 9th 2021 at 7:15:01 AM

You are allowed to discuss other issues. Problem is, you aren't allowed to ignore the other issues raised however (which is what the proposed two-way split and the "We should just weed " amount to) unless you refute them first.

Ok, so I need something cleared up here: Just One of the Guys is down as being Queer Media. Why? Is it just because she dresses up as a guy? Because she is neither transgender nor a transvestite. She dresses up as a guy purely for self-serving reasons to try and get a new job and all of the women who are attracted to her as a guy are doing so because they think that she is a guy. They are not lesbians and nor is she because she pursues a guy throughout the film.

This sort of thing just screams Unfortunate Implications to me and really needs to be looked into.

And the icing on the cake here is that She's the Man is not down as Queer Media despite basically being the exact same film.

Oh wow, I've never seen the movie and didn't think it was just a Sweet on Polly Oliver plot. Will fix.

Edit: removed it with a link to the about post.

Edited by MegaJ on Aug 16th 2021 at 6:01:30 AM

How about adding this to the description:

• Queer Media usually deals with these themes as part of their central premise:
  • The Coming-Out Story, with a character or multiple characters coming to terms that they are queer as well as their self-actualization.
  • Dealing with internal self-loathing due to being attracted to the same sex or transgender.
  • Gender dysphoria, as in a character/characters feeling their gender identity does not match their biological sex. Conversely, gender euphoria once they embrace aspects of their internal gender identity.
  • Queer Romance and falling in love.
  • Fighting against discrimination and prejudice; a Homophobic Hate Crime is usually present.
  • HIV/AIDS, and HIV/AIDS discrimination as the queer community was disproportionally effected by the disease; these works were not as prevalent in the Turn of the Millennium as advances in treating the disease became more commonplace.
  • LGBT acceptance, within families and in society.

Edited by MegaJ on Aug 29th 2021 at 7:23:24 AM

Those seem like good metrics.

I also still wanna create sub-indexes for works that focus on specific demographics, namely Transgender Media. I just need the time.

• What if it's a subplot?
• What about works taking place in Non Heteronormative Societies? Most of those things probably wouldn't apply. Or would that fall under LGBT acceptance?
• What about LGBT+ characters in central roles? It wouldn't necessarily in itself qualify a work (e.g. a John Constantine work where his bisexuality never comes up), but suppose you have, say, a non-binary protagonist who is casually called by "ve" pronouns?

I'm proposing a LGBT Representation in Media/LGBT Related Media to cover most of that.

As for Non-Hetronormative society settings, I guess it would just depend. I would say something like Steven Universe or She-Ra and the Princesses of Power I would say would count as Queer Media, they were both created by queer people and it was very much the intention to showcase queer people not dealing with discrimination and they both have themes of self-acceptance/anti-discrimination that go hand in hand with the queer experience. Something like the say, The Dragon Prince wouldn't as while they do feature queer characters, none are the main characters and the story don't revolve around the queer characters (and I'm aware it's currently on the Queer Media index).

Yep, my mistake.

Edited by MegaJ on Aug 29th 2021 at 4:58:01 AM

You mean The Dragon Prince wouldn't count, right?

Are you prosing adding "made by queer creators" back as a requirement? That used to be one, but was removed in the previous TRS.

I'll restate my position that this should be for stories that are about being queer as their primary subject matter. So I wouldn't count She-ra, because it's ultimately a adventure story with a romantic subplot that happens to be between two women, but the fact that they are queer is not central to the plot.

Edited by TheMountainKing on Aug 29th 2021 at 6:37:00 AM

I’m not sure whether or not to add that requirement back to this index.

I will say She-ra is a bit of a special case as that show is intended for children so already it’s hampered by restrictions as most children's shows are No Hugging, No Kissing and cagey about romance, even with straight characters. The closest queer themes the show can explore is G-rated queer romance and Be Yourself.

You could argue that Adora and Catra’s relationship progressing to a romantic one is pretty central to the plot, so there’s that.

Edited by MegaJ on Aug 29th 2021 at 9:04:51 AM

Then, would you not count any queer romance story in which the queerness goes unremarked upon?

There's probably arguments that their queerness provides subtext to the story but I'm not familiar enough with the show to say. I just know it was made by a nonbinary lesbian who does like to work their experience into their work.

But She-Ra would go in Speculative Fiction LGBT anyway — isn't that a sub-index?

Edited by mightymewtron on Aug 29th 2021 at 10:07:26 AM