Making up for lost LGBTQ+ tropes

It would involve both the looks and attitude?

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Sidenote, but what do you think about a trope like Queer Non Human? About, well, non-human characters that are gay, bi, trans, non-binary etc? Since non-human-ness is often connected to being "different" or "other", a lot of monsters are explicitly or implicitly LGBT. You can write about how this trope was used to make gay/bi/trans people seem dangerous and "alien", but nowdays it's more neutral, and a lot of LGBT people actually embrace them (though not all, which should also be noted). Is a trope like this too broad? I suppose some examples would overlap with Lesbian Vampire, Non-Human Non-Binary and Discount Lesbians, but a lot wouldn't.

Edited by MadHatt3r on Jul 21st 2021 at 7:04:41 PM

I don't know if it's distinct enough from Discount Lesbians. I'd also exclude cases in which the entire cast is nonhuman anyway.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Discount Lesbians is broader than the name; it's about all non-het sexualities

Discount Lesbians talks about couples that seem like same-gender ones, but aren't due to a technicality. Queer Non Human is about single characters who are canonically LGBT and also non-human in some way.

Was thinking about that for a franchise recently and how useful it could be since Speculative Fiction LGBT is more about the genre than the specific characters.

I'm sure this has been brought up before, but would Casual Queer Representation be a valid trope? As in, works with LGBT+ characters whose queerness is not treated as a huge deal.

I think it could work, since it is an intentional choice by the author to make these characters this way, usually with the goal of normalizing queer identities and making these groups feel represented.

That's what Bi The Way tried to be and couldn't be; because at a certain point there's no difference from "casual representation" and "character is LGBT with no other meaning attached". The idea is solid but in practice it's been proven that tropers can't draw lines properly and will use it for anything and everything.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 22nd 2021 at 4:34:47 AM

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I've frequently talked about works that incorporate diversity of all kinds without drawing attention to it but IDK how relevant and objectively it can be troped.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Yeah, it would definitely be hard to keep it from degenerating into misuse. I do think there's something of value in there, but it might not be worth the trouble.

Plus there's already Cast Full of Gay/Everyone Is Gay for "all/a good portion of the cast is LGBT"

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Set up a page for Queer Non Human here. Admittedly I don't have a ton of experience in the TLP field so it's pretty sloppy, but feel free to fill it out with examples. I'm wondering if it can serve as a replacement supertrope in place of Speculative Fiction LGBT, which deals with stories in which Queer Non Human characters are a primary focus of the work.

Speculative Fiction LGBT covers a lot of works where the queer characters are human. Queer Nonhumans would be a sub trope.

I mean, though, the thing I keep wondering is whether it's a meaningful subtrope. If it's not explicitly tied to their "nonhumanness" - which I think is already covered tropes - then it's just a list of random "he's gay and also an alien" characters.

Edited by nrjxll on Jul 30th 2021 at 11:50:40 AM

~nrjxll bring that up in the draft itself, please.

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If nothing else happens to it, I plan on adopting Trans in the Adaptation. I'm bringing this up here because 1. there have been multiple comments about changing the name, but everyone has a different idea on what to change it to, and 2. there's still the whole underlying "should transgender to cisgender examples be allowed" discussion that we haven't come to a consensus on.

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Uhh this probably isn't the place for this (I forget if we have a place for this or not) but could someone help me go through the character page wicks on UsefulNotes.Transgender to make sure people aren't trying to use it as a trope replacement like people tried to do with UsefulNotes.Bisexual? I was planning on doing it myself like with bisexual's UN page, but there are way more wicks for the transgender UN page than I anticipated. The Characters/ wicks alone are 79, nearly as much as UsefulNotes.Bisexual had in total before I scrubbed all the bad uses.

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Checked A to D.

Edited by Twiddler on Aug 18th 2021 at 1:43:08 AM

Adopting Trans in the Adaptation. Will figure out the title thing later, but for now I'm fishing for more non-fanwork examples since those dominate the page.

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Eh, I kind of doubt you're going to find many non-fanwork examples, unfortunately. I'm not sure how much fishing for them will help.

Edited by nrjxll on Sep 4th 2021 at 2:18:48 PM

Eh, still worth a try.

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Here's a question: does a translation count as an adaptation? Looking through Transgender Example Sorting for anything to add onto TITA and found this:

• Vivian from Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door is a transgender girl in the original Japanese version. Her sister Beldam is the only one who specifically uses this to insult her, but every other character (including the narrator) refers to her in masculine terms. Only the English and German localizations remove this trait, treating her as a cisgender girl and having Beldam's insults instead be about how ugly she is.

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We'd think so, yeah.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

The constant kerfuffle over "bi vs gay" on and off the wiki has me wondering if we could use an "Unlabeled Sexuality" trope to describe characters who are canonically queer, but never use a specific label for themselves.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

You've reminded me of the whole Ambiguously Queer idea from a while back.

Unlabeled Sexuality kind of sound like chairs though.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Sep 7th 2021 at 2:30:06 PM

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I don't think it's chairs for a work to have a prominent gay character who never once calls themself "gay" or "lesbian" or "bisexual" or any other specific label. Labeling is a big issue in the community and it's significant if a work refuses to let a character be called one of those things, especially if there's stigma attached.

Ambiguously Queer as a supertrope... I get the idea, but I see more ambiguity for characters who are canonically queer but not outright said to be gay or bi either way, particularly in modern works where we care about the distinction more. With unconfirmed characters, I see it as "if they also like the other gender they're Ambiguously Bi, if they don't have any positive romances with the other gender they're Ambiguously Gay." And then there's Ambiguous Gender Identity too. What are we left with? Ambiguously Asexual? How often is that specifically coded?

Edited by mightymewtron on Sep 7th 2021 at 2:51:59 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.