Fact Checking Thread

Sorry if I'm late, but about that Sailor Moon example... literally every single documentary, article, video or whatever talking about the show's English dub mentions how the dub was Uncancelled because of the petition made by fans from the Save our Sailors website.

It's a widespread enough claim that it's almost certainly true.

No it isnt. I hate sounding rude but that's a ridiculous thing to say. That's like saying "If we tell a lie enough its true." Sailor Moon only got uncancelled due to its Canadian popularity. If its not from official sources or cant be backed by official sources then its a lie or just as good as one.

EDIT: Wait I think I misunderstood are you saying we DO have proof?

Edited by AegisP on Jul 30th 2023 at 10:43:47 AM

Kung Pow! Enter the Fist

• Aluminum Christmas Trees:
  • Some martial arts schools actually "trained" students they considered unworthy incorrectly on purpose, just like Wimp Lo.

Does anyone know if this is true? I can't imagine why they would do that

I know this probably isnt the right thread but it is the closest I could find.

I am concerned with this example:

All the examples are from Oscar Bait.

• The 1992 Spike Lee film Malcolm X is an epic biopic about the eponymous icon of the civil rights movement (portrayed by Denzel Washington, who had recently won an Oscar for Glory), with an inspirational Celebrity Cameo from none other than Nelson Mandela himself. It was nominated for two Oscars, winning neither. Subverted, though, in that Lee was more concerned with doing justice to the life of Malcolm X than actually winning anything, but the cynics among us will say that the film was calculated Oscar Bait.

I dont think this is needed, it's conversational, This Troper, and assumes a lot that shouldnt be up to the trope to assume "we" or "them" we do.

Also this one from another director doesnt get any "But we all think he's Oscar Baiting anyway"

• Many of David Cronenberg's fans were disappointed when his films (which had previously been based overwhelmingly on Body Horror, violence, and insanity narratives) seemed to became this trope starting with A Dangerous Method — a period drama involving Sigmund Freud which received positive reviews but did poorly at the box office and received no attention from the Oscars. His follow-up film Cosmopolis bombed in its limited release, making less then a million dollars in the U.S. (and only averaging $5 million worldwide) and was criticized for being overly pretentious (with Robert Pattinson's performance in particular being derided for being wooden); it too was ignored by the Oscars. However, these films were likely intended less for awards attention and more as means for Cronenberg to tackle humanity's dark side in different settings/genres.

Edited by AegisP on Aug 8th 2023 at 10:42:29 AM

Where are those examples from?

Deleting duplicate

Edited by randomtroper89 on Aug 8th 2023 at 1:48:57 PM

Deleting duplicate

Edited by randomtroper89 on Aug 8th 2023 at 1:49:11 PM

Speaking of Dethroning moments of Mr.Enter

• Dat Shambler: I'd also like to add that in said video, he refers to the people that are not him/the writers of Family Guy as "The Bad Ones" or something along those lines. That makes him come across as really petty.

Yeah that is definitely putting words in Mr. Enter's mouth. The "good ones" and "bad ones" refer to satirists putting things in black and white.

I've wanted to add this to Devil Survivor, but would like to double-check if I understand the issue right. The story is not really relevant here.

• Artistic License – Physics: The government's solution for the demon outbreak is as follows: under PSE Law, every electronic device in Japan, aside following the safety standards, has a secret remotely-controlled chip that sets its output to maximum, and the overlapping EM waves would create an Ultra Electromagnetic Field, effectively turning Tokyo into a giant microwave. Not only it's improbable to implement^note Beside carrying it out for years with nobody but Naoya noticing such chip's existence, all electronics would need a secondary circuit for radio input and power override, it's also not possible physically except for specially-designed military weapons^note The collective of electronics in the city would need to be capable of producing enough power for EM radiation to escape the protective interior in lethal doses without breaking first themselves.

It looks right to me. A 1500 watt household microwave is just a box made of sheet metal, and it holds that power level in very well, so you'd need something on the order of megawatts to even make a dent.

Over on Fanon Welding, we have this example:

• Due to sharing the same creator, many believe that Danny Phantom and The Fairly OddParents! share a universe. Building on this is the common fan theory (that was at one point going to be canonical) that Danny and Timmy are related.

Is there a source that the theory of Timmy and Danny being related was meant to be canon? This is the first I'm hearing of it.

Ok NOW I am seeing a troubling pattern. Look at this entry from Oscar Bait.

• Selma is a 2014 biopic of Martin Luther King Jr., depicting Dr. King's march from Selma to Montgomery in 1965 in support of the Civil Rights Act. It was released in the fallout from 12 Years a Slave and tried to tick the same boxes, with the added element of being directed by a woman of color, Ava Du Vernay. But the Academy didn't take the bait; it won only Best Original Song, and it was nominated for but didn't win Best Picture.

This is REALLY concerning. Why is this page so keen to call Black Creators out on Oscar Baiting?

Civil rights stories and other historical films are often called Oscar Bait because their subject matter is just more likely to be taken seriously. It's not always black creators who get mocked for it — usually the opposite, in my experience. That line is nevertheless really smug and should be cut.

What does this have to do with fact checking, though? Did you mean to post in the complaining thread?

No, at first this was related to my earlier posts if it was factual that Cronenberg was not chasing Oscars and Spike Lee was, despite the example actually actually arguing he wasnt earlier on, making it look like the example was arguing against itself. I went here first because it didnt seem like complaining at first but a matter of fact instead.

IMO, Oscar Bait is less about actual intentions and more about conventions a film uses, similar to Award-Bait Song. I think it feels a bit YMMV, similar to Cliché Storm, but that's a convo for another thread. Either way I don't think it's the sort of thing that needs fact checking.

I know it is, that's exactly why I brought it here. In fact, I realized that despite how much I hate those lines if they are removed then the movie wouldnt even be an example, but there's got to be a better way to say these movies are examples withOUT outright saying "Ava Du Varney/Spike Lee/Black Creators are trying to game the system!"

EDIT: Oops forgot the OUT in With OUT.

Edited by AegisP on Aug 13th 2023 at 12:58:22 PM

I think simply describing the conventions used in the movie that fit the trope's definition should be enough, but I think Oscar Bait probably just needs TRS to decide how objective it really is. I didn't even see the soft split til now, and it's kinda yikes.

Edited by mightymewtron on Aug 13th 2023 at 4:31:15 AM

Ok, moved the talk about Oscat Bait on the proper thread. Thanks mewtron!

From Live-Action Films

Used egregiously in The Force Awakens to get the main cast together. Rey happens to live within walking distance of Lor San Tekka, despite there being no known reason as to why they'd even be on the same planet, and BB-8 just happens to run into her while fleeing the First Order. Finn, meanwhile, just happens to be part of the First Order division that attacks Tekka's village. When his and Poe's ship is shot down, they land close enough to the market Rey sells her goods at that he's able to find it wandering aimlessly, and Rey just happens to be there with BB-8 (who recognizes Finn because he just happened to take Poe's jacket) when he arrives. Then, when they need to steal a ship to escape from the First Order, the ship they choose just happens to be the Millennium Falcon, which had, by a series of unrelated events, somehow ended up in the possession of Rey's boss. After they escape, they're picked up by another ship... Which just happens to belong to Han and Chewie, the Millennium Falcon's previous owners, who just happened to be in the area looking for it.

At the very least, I can't find anything on Rey being "within walking distance of Lor San Tekka". Also, BB-8 didn't just "happen to run into" Rey. Rey found BB-8 being hauled by Teedo

I also question if Finn was "wandering aimlessly". There's a shot of him looking out in the distance at some buildings.

On Total Drama under Fan-Preferred Cut Content:

• While it's generally agreed that adding Gwen to All-Stars cast was a positive change, even if her portrayal in the season was the case of a Base-Breaking Character, fans often agree that Anne Maria, Cody, Brick, and Owen shouldn't have been cut from the season. Most fans tend to keep them in their rewrites, especially the latter two who are universally agreed to be All-Star worthy and a better choice over Sam.

I'm pretty sure these characters being cut from TDAS before production is purely a fan theory (and one that doesn't entirely hold up if you think about it).

If there's no evidence for those characters ever being considered for part of the season, you can probably just cut the example.

I think it was confirmed that they had considered putting Cody in, but weren't sure where to take his character arc after season 3. Dunno about the others though.

Characters being considered early in production doesn't necessarily mean it progressed to the point where they could be "cut" rather than just not being used.

I think it can still go under Fan-Preferred Cut Content as long as it was considered at some point. That's just semantics and at most means the example should be re-worded.

Edited by rjd1922 on Sep 5th 2023 at 12:10:29 PM