During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Cruella (I still don’t really know why they chose her to be sympathetic) & Kaplan
Lies and Violence!
Cruella and Kaplan.
Is Skulduggery Pleasant on the swaps? I did that last Saturday, so I don't think it'd be lumped in with the other pages that hadn't been updated last week.
God, it's been an exhausting week. Here's the EP I kept having to put off, another BATB candidate. This time, a name who has popped up on this thread many times before: Ra's Al Ghul.
Who is Ra's and what has he done?
The ancient leader of the Society of Shadows (the show's version of the League of Shadows/Assassins). This version is a firm Well-Intentioned Extremist who has plans of culling the Earth’s population, believing humanity has been desecrating the Earth with pollution and overconsumption of resources. He first appears in “Sidekicks Assemble!” where he plots to use a chlorocannon to cause hypergrowth in plants to wipe civilisations out city by city, with his first target being Coast City.
Ra's had located his hideout among two islands, with one being large and reading many energy signatures, while the second one was smaller with no signs of life. Batman and the adult heroes had expected the large island to be Ra's base, while he also goaded the Robin and the sidekicks into taking the smaller island. However, Batman and co. soon get ensnared by a carnivorous plant on the large island, while a holographic projection of Ra's states he is not present there, meaning the large island was a decoy. Robin and the sidekicks manage to fight and defeat several of Ra's henchmen, among them including Talia al Ghul. However Ra's has them gassed unconscious, to which Ra's then notes Batman trained Robin well.
Once the sidekicks awaken, Ra's explains his goals to them. He then offers Robin to be his heir, as Batman would decline, while also explaining Talia was unfit as he needed a male heir. Robin also refuses, so Ra's lowers the sidekicks into a death trap. They are freed by Talia, who sees herself in the same position as Robin for being under Batman’s shadow and advises him to be his own person. Meanwhile Ra's launches the flying island and fires the chlorocannon at Coast City, causing tonnes of carnivorous plants to sprout up and trap civilians. The sidekicks try to turn the cannon off, only to find out it is remotely controlled So they instead try to steer the island away, and after that fails opt to destroy the cannon’s engines. At this point the adult heroes have caught up, with Batman engaging Ra’s in sword fight, where Ra’s manages to disarm him and hold Batman at sword point. Right then the canons shut off, but Ra’s reveals the contingency of blowing the flying island up to disperse the tanks full of chloroplasts. It isn’t until the other adult heroes use the batplane to pull the island back to sea where it can detonate away from civilians. Ra’s is rescued by Talia and airlifts him away, while the heroes all get off the island and board the plane.
In "Crisis 22,300 Miles Above Earth!", Ra's makes his second attempt at population control. When Batman investigates, he is knocked out by Ra's top henchman, Ubu, and Ra's has him tied over a pit containing a man-eating octopus. Ra's explains his plan of firing a fusion rocket into the sun, causing solar flares that would melt the polar ice caps and flood the planet. Batman is saved by Talia al Ghul who pulls him from the pit, returns his utility belt, and gives him a kiss. Batman attempts to radio the JL Watchtower for help, but is discovered by Ubu and attacks him just after sending a distress signal. Ra's then has Batman and Talia (knowing her betrayal) tied to the fusion rocket. However both Justice League teams arrive having heard Batman's call. Ra's launches the rocket anyway while unleashing ninjas and his octopus. The combined effort of the heroes stops the rocket, Ra's ninjas, and his octopus. Ra's however makes a final stand, donning his battle suit and knocks Batman down. Batman responds by using his grappling hook to trip Ra's and pull him down into a gorge.
Magnificent? Charming? Charismatic?
As expected of Ra's, he's a charming Well-Intentioned Extremist and a Visionary Villain with noble goals, even if a tad bit extreme. Him and Batman matching wits is like a chess game, with the advantage tipping between both parties constantly. Ra's get outwitted, he pulls out a contingency. His island gets sabotaged, he blows it up. His ninjas get defeated, he releases his monster octopus. The second time he was so close to winning and it took two Justice Leagues to take him down.
He's as charming as ever, deeming Batman and Robin to be Worthy Opponents and potential heirs, even addressing Batman as "Detective". No problem with charisma either considering he has a large group of loyal followers who assist in his cause.
Too much of a bastard?
Well he does want to wipe out the human race, but intention is important. He has sympathetic if a little extreme motives with the wellbeing of the planet in mind.
Potential Disqualifiers?
Alrighty, let's address the main issue. This Ra's does show a bit of misogyny towards his daughter Talia, believing a woman isn't capable of leading the Society, hence his motives to seek out a male heir. Though I should point out, the implication is that at one point he did legitimately try to train Talia to be his successor. But upon having issues with her attitude, he chalked it up to her being a woman. So I wouldn't call him a Straw Misogynist as he doesn't actively hate women, but he definitely feels some supremacy towards males. Though as others have pointed out on the thread earlier, many Ra's do show a degree of sexism due to being old-fashioned but never mean any malice from it. Past that, he doesn't seem to ever be disrespectful to Talia, well up until she betrays him at least.
Final verdict?
It really depends if one can overlook his misogyny.
Edited by Snowy66 on Jun 11th 2021 at 4:40:20 AM
Dagded Dujardin
Cruella and Kaplan and tempative one for Ras'
Edited by VengefulBale on Jun 11th 2021 at 9:12:34 AM
"Bingo! If two species hate each other, they will wipe each other out on their own."
Cruella, and Kaplan. Abstaining on Ra's pending other watchers opinions.
Happy yes to Cruella as we discussed. I'll give it this, it was better than the bulk of Live action Disney remakes/reimaginings and while I personally didn't care for it, Emma Stone as Cruella was easily the best part of the film.
Yes to Kaplan too.
I've got a lump on my head from hitting it hard on my wooden floor, thankfully its healed and while my ass hurts from falling on it, it's nowhere near as bad as it was yesterday.
Edited by Klavice on Jun 11th 2021 at 7:30:45 AM
I'll also hold off on Ra's for now but something I'm hoping Georgie can give me a little clarity on: this 1997 version of Miloch, is it canon to the comics? The rest of the stuff is on the comics page, should I be leaving him there and just link to the animated series? Is it an alternate universe and he should get a second entry? Just a little confused there not knowing the work.
So apparently the animated series is an adaptation. Georgie said the animated series was extremely similar to the comic original, so he just decided to expand the entry. I don't know if the animated series has a seperate YMMV page.
Edit: There's a separate page for WesternAnimation.Blake And Mortimer vs Comicbook.Blake And Mortimer, but they all have one YMMV page
Edited by jjjj2 on Jun 11th 2021 at 11:08:58 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
I'm just gonna ask for a split then. My bad not catching!
Cruella.
Kaplan.
Cruella/ Estella
Although that may change if in any sequel they make her more similar to the previous versions. (Although the safest thing is that they decide to keep Cruella/ Estella as an Affably Evil Anti-Hero)
Kaplan.
Edited by JoLuRo075 on Jun 11th 2021 at 9:23:07 AM
Cruella. First Mia Dolan keeper?
Ultimate Moral Compass
For the time being (there are probably more that I'm just not finding), and because I want to take a break from this franchise, I'm going to unleash all of my Appleseed write-ups.
- Book 3: The Scales of Prometheus: Artemis Alpeia is a feral bioroid who, despite her savage brutality, displays quick thinking skills and acrobatic agility. Escaping from Olympus and hiding in New York, where she ate humans and dogs to survive, Artemis escapes ESWAT once they capture her, and makes a daring getaway, even shooting Briareos in the eye to stall him. Found afterwards residing in a jungle on the outskirts of Olympus, Artemis installed traps everywhere to protect herself from ESWAT members out to get her, killing one of them herself with a poison arrow. Although apprehended by ESWAT, Artemis is allowed to live in Olympus thanks to her all-important coding, happily residing with Hitomi and even giving birth to triplets of her own.
- 1988 OVA: Charon Mautholos is a cop haunted by the death of his wife Fleia. After witnessing Fleia commit suicide thanks to feeling confined within Olympus’s utopian grip, Charon is taken in by a group of bioroid interrogators and hooked up to a mind reading machine against his will. Feeling violated and enraged towards Olympus as a result, Charon partners with terrorist A.J. Sebastian to destroy the city in a genuine effort to ensure humanity’s freedom. Using his position and good reputation within the force to allow Sebastian to get away with his crimes, when the plan requires Charon to kidnap the bioroid Hitomi in order to shut down the Gaia supercomputer, Charon does so effortlessly, even killing the cops trailing him in one fell swoop. Charon ultimately dies ensuring Hitomi properly makes it to the last computer terminal, using his final breath to trick her into deactivating Gaia and ensuring Olympus’s destruction.
- Anime movie duology:
- 2004 film: The Council of Elders are a faction of seven old men running Olympus who take orders from the supercomputer Gaia. In truth, the Elders have deactivated Gaia to accomplish their plans of eradicating human sterilization so that humanity can die out for the greater good, and despite their life support being tied to Gaia, they’re willing to die for the sake of their plan. Needing the Appleseed in order for bioroids to become the world’s dominate race, the Elders murder Dr. Gilliam Knute for hiding it from them, while manipulating her daughter Deunan into locating it. Seeking to spread the D-Tank sterilization virus, the Elders allow the city’s racist army to commence their bioroid genocide campaign in order to anger Gaia enough to justify unleashing the virus. Once Prime Minister Athena shuts their plan down, the Elders activate the city’s mobile defense mechas to unleash the virus themselves.
- Ex Machina (2007): Dr. Richard F. Kestner is a scientist who wants to wipe out free will and unify every mind under his control in order to create the perfect utopia. Previously a member of the Poseidon Halcon Laboratories who discovered the key to mind control, after his partner Professor Xander was killed by Poseidon to cease the project, an enraged Kestner would revive Xander as the main AI for the Halcon mainframe. Using nanomachines to take control of several Poseidon cyborgs into launching terrorist attacks as a way to destroy the company’s business, Kestner would instigate an attack at a peace summit in order to get every world leader to reroute their satellites over Olympus. Planting a virus in the satellite’s backup system that would allow him to control it to his liking, Kestner implants nanomachines in an injured Briareos, using him to cause the satellite’s system to crash and swap with the backup system. Ultimately using the satellites to control everybody wearing a Connexus into starting a massive riot to cull out non-conformers, after Kestner explains his plan to Briareos, he commits suicide so that the incoming ESWAT will arrest Briareos again.
- Alpha (2014): Two Horns is an eccentric, cybernetic crime boss who’s always ready with a wisecrack even in the face of danger. Having gotten Deunan and Briareos into enough debt to work for him, while even attempting to have them killed during their final job, Two Horns survives an assassination attempt by his old partner Talos, seeking afterwards to get back at Deunan and Briareos for bailing on him. Partnering with Deunan and Briareos because he grew tired of Talos humiliating him, Two Horns saves the two’s lives when they’re cornered by Talos’s army, even providing Deunan with an exo-suit. Getting Deunan inside Talos’s activated war machine and thus assisting in its destruction, Two Horns thanks Deunan and Briareos by giving them an improved exo-suit, while letting them off scott free in the process.
- XIII:
- Dhianeira “Deia” Cides, daughter of Poseidon’s prime minister, is Hitomi’s friend and a helpful bioroid researcher. In truth an anti-bioroid terrorist, Deia seeks the downfall of Olympus and Poseidon for killing her husband Alcides and her unborn child. Looking to sabotage the Ark Project by killing all ten chosen bioroid subjects for sharing the same DNA as Alcides, Deia succeeds in killing them all through either clever manipulation, tactical destruction, or by putting on a trustworthy demeanor. Deia later kidnaps Deunan and wires her heartrate to a bomb set to destroy Olympus, all as a way to see if her teammates value her as a person or an asset to be tossed away. Eventually realizing that she herself is being used by the Poseidon government after they crowned her Goodwill Ambassador, Deia is able to kill those manipulating her and eventually commit suicide to escape Poseidon’s command, but not before seeing the error of her anti-bioroid ways.
- "The Cretan Bull": Erinyes is a mysterious apparition who seeks revenge on those who destroyed her once peaceful village. Having been the first one used for a bio-weapon experiment by a cabal of corrupt politicians, Erinyes’s spirit would infect them with their own virus that turns them into blood thirsty zombies. Allowing everyone else in the facility to become infected, including her new friend Deunan, once Erinyes’s revenge has been completed, she decides to commit suicide after finding herself stooping to her enemies’ level, but not before parting Deunan with words of wisdom. Though the politicians are cured, Erinyes’s actions spark interest in her daughter, Eumenides, to expose the politicians of their corruption.
Oh, and also my Johnny Cash one, too.
- "A Boy Named Sue", from At San Quentin by Johnny Cash: The father is a gunslinger who abandoned his family after his son’s birth, but not before giving his son the embarrassing name ‘Sue’. Wanting Sue to grow up strong and smart in a rough world by beating up people who made fun of his name, along with having no father figure to look up to throughout most of his life, when encountered by an enraged Sue decades later, the father puts up a good, brutal fight. When Sue draws his gun on him, the father smiles, knowing he’s made his son tough, even reconciling with his boy afterwards.
Edited by therealjackieboy on Jun 11th 2021 at 10:40:15 AM
"No running in the halls!"
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Haha. Yes indeed.
Trying to remember who thought Evelyn from The Divergent Series might count for this. Not against the idea, though I’d think Jack Kang who uses truth serum on people would be someone better for it actually.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jun 11th 2021 at 10:28:40 AM
The wifi here sucks
I said this in PMs but no one counts in the movies at least. Jack doesn't do anything interesting, Evelyn is a dictator who tries to wipe the memories of her enemies and Johanna isn't a bastard. None of them do anything worthy of this trope.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Yeah. For reasons stated, I can't imagine anyone in the series does count for this then.
Cruella Kaplan
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Unsure on Ra's. Aye to Cruella.
I confirm, the animated series are an adaptation of the comic, but they don't share the same canon (otherwise, Olrik would've to be cut right away ; too much of a bastard in the animated series to count).
Miloch in the animated series just happened to to have a similar plan to his original comic self (with several differences as well), hence why I chose to expand his entry instead of a separate one.
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Sorry bud, mind splitting in that case if they're different canons?
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Ra's. Too sexist IMO, at least the comic version has some Depending on the Writer to mitigate it.
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Jun 11th 2021 at 12:04:44 PM
Thinking it through I'm likewise not comfortable with Ra's' bigotry. With especially Jigen but also Goemon and sometimes Lupin they can make iffy remarks about women but all three make it damn clear they can respect strong women just as much as men, with Jigen in particular showing nothing but admiration for Clarise's tenacity in Castle of Cagliostro and even wears her crown over his hat as he shoots baddies coming after her as a sign of respect when she flees with Lupin.
Oh sorry Emerald, I'll get that added after work or you can request it on locked pages now!
Edited by 43110 on Jun 11th 2021 at 3:26:00 PM
Yeah sorry for the misunderstanding there Georgie. Yeah I'm also gonna downvote Ra's. It's one thing to make iffy remarks, it's another thing to make iffy remarks and follow through on them. His sexism seems legitimate. Ra's.
for Artemis, Brain, Kaplan and Cruella.
Cruella isn't my favourite Disney remake, but it cements my overall opinion on them; the best elements, in my opinion, are the ones that seem aware that they're adapting beloved animated movies into live-action so they have fun with the challenge, the most consistent elements being the performances and costumes, where costumes apply. It's just that the elements that seem to perpetuate the Animation Age Ghetto hold them back and tend to be the most controversial as a result. Cruella was the first remake since The Jungle Book where the direction was on point and had the more consistent vision.
Anyway, back on topic, for Ryoba and Ra's.
to Ra’s due to him being a bit too sexist
2021!Cruella
