The Broken Base cleanup thread discusses about examples in Broken Base, but this talks about examples in YMMV pages of works containing Base-Breaking Character, (despite being an Example Sectionectomy, this can still be seen in the YMMV pages of works) where the details on what is suitable is also vague.
Here is the criteria for Base-Breaking Character:
- A long-term, sustained conflict: Characters that were simply hated and loved, then had their interest evaporated away (both positive and negative) after a few months doesn't count. Characters in upcoming works also don't count.
- A vicious conflict: Factions that have little problem co-existing and doesn't mind about what the other faction likes or dislikes about the character doesn't count. If it's not particularly vicious and heated, then it would be cut or be listed as a Downplayed Trope.
- Two (or more) vocal, almost equally sized factions: A tiny Vocal Minority that doesn't shut up their pet peeve, whilst being outnumbered by more reasonable fans don't count. Nor does a Silent Majority who doesn't make a big deal with the other side count. If one of the hating factions is significantly bigger than the other, it would be classified as The Scrappy or an Ensemble Dark Horse.
- Little to no Middle ground: Scenarios where most of the fandom doesn't care about the character, don't count.
Base-Breaking Character is when half of the fandom likes a character, yet another equally sized half dislikes it. Now that happens, but the problem is, some entries aren't really contentious (thus not resulting in flame wars when someone says they "liked that character"). Also, several entries are one-sided towards the negative or the positive side describing that only side in detail, but then wrapping up with a single line saying "But the other half likes that character". A correct way would be describing it like "a split in the Fandom on who likes it or not", with details on both sides why they're liked and disliked.
Here's an example from YMMV.Undertale:
- Alphys. A lot of players find her character gimmick of constant messages and attempts to help more annoying than funny, especially on repeat playthroughs. And even though she has sympathetic reasons, the reveal that she's been experimenting on sick monsters to create the Amalgamates and manipulating the player to feel better about herself doesn't help, especially since she never directly apologizes for the latter.
While it may have annoyed players due to these reasons above, there has been a considerable amount of fanarts and comics or her, and not only that, the like-dislike situation hasn't been so contentious (compared to Sans, whom he's popular, now he sucks.)
edited 21st Feb '18 1:46:31 PM by AppleGates
Angry babby
On Superstore:
- Base-Breaking Character: A fairly large contingent of fans thinks that Mateo is a self-centered, catty jerk who frequently mistreats those who genuinely want to help him. Some also think that he is a bad influence on Cheyenne, noting that she becomes more selfish when she hangs around with him. However, his fandom thinks his antics cross the line into being funny, and his character arc tugs at the heartstrings. Many viewers who do find his character funny admit that he would be terrible to work with in real life.
This was previously written entirely against Mateo. I added the "However, his fandom thinks his antics cross the line into being funny, and his character arc tugs at the heartstrings." to make the entry less biased but it still reads as very negative. I'm not really in the fandom so IDK how to write it so it's even-ended.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Had an edit war brewing in YMMV.One Piece regarding a BBC entry. That part's been resolved, but I thought I'd post the entry in question here and get a consensus on whether it should stay, go, or possibly be better brought up in the "Removing complaining, bashing and other negativity from the wiki" thread.
The section in question is highlighted in bold:
- Sanji's immense love of women is either endearing and ties well into his gentlemen-like personality and how he respects any woman, including ugly ones. Or is annoying and stupid with how it constantly puts him and his crew in danger when they battle female villains and makes him look like too much of a Jerkass particularly whenever he's worried about Nami and Robin's safety while being apathetic to the safety of the male crew members. This is particularly a problem post-Time Skip when his perversion is amped up after spending two years with transvestites. A particularly controversial example is Pudding below, who drove him to tears and is eager to kill him, yet he still can’t help but be attracted to her only surviving because he compliments her third eye, but at the same time it highlights the positive side of Sanji's chivalry since it causes Pudding to do a Heel–Face Turn. There's also controversy regarding his battle performance in the New World, with some claiming he's been fine and the focus he's had doesn't need to be on his battles while others believe he should actually get a proper and intense fight.
Given the nature of the trope, I can see it being a valid detail to include. Though it was changed a bit in the most recent edit and I'm not sure if it wouldn't be preferable. Here's the version currently on the page
- Sanji's immense love of women is either endearing and ties well into his gentlemen-like personality and how he respects any woman, including ugly ones. Or is annoying and stupid with how he cant't battle female villains and makes him look like a Jerkass whenever he's worried about Nami and Robin's safety while being apathetic toward the male crew members. This is particularly a problem post-Time Skip when his perversion is amped up after spending two years with transvestites. A particularly controversial example is Pudding below, who drove him to tears and is eager to kill him, yet he still can’t help but be attracted to her only surviving because he compliments her third eye, but at the same time it highlights the positive side of Sanji's chivalry since it causes Pudding to do a Heel–Face Turn. There's also controversy regarding his battle performance in the New World, with some claiming he's been fine and the focus he's had doesn't need to be on his battles while others believe he should actually get a proper and intense fight.
Honestly the 2nd version might be better, since as the edit reason for it notes, it doesn't happen enough to be considered "constantly" like the original entry did and cuts down some word cruft.
Nonetheless I wanted to get an opinion on which version if either, should be used. I may make two tweaks the the entry in the meantime. One to fix the typo in "cant't" and to remove the "below" next to Pudding's name, since entries shouldn't refer to one another.
Yea, the current entry still looks very complain-y and isn't all that balanced at all. Also, I'm sure Sanji is one of the most popular characters in the series does he even have a big enough hatedom to be considered a Base-Breaking Character?
I'm not certain personally, but if any Straw Hat would, it's Sanji. I know he's among the characters I've occasionally seen enough vitriol hurled at him in our own OP thread in the past that I've had to ask "you do know he's not real, right?"
Oh Sanji, I will agree that the comment about Sanji not caring for the male crew should be removed. He is shown on numerous occasions to care about the male members of the crew. I think the entry should be removed entirely because while there are people who dislike that trait, it's clearly not enough because he does consistently score highly on character rankings. I don't think that just because Sanji is the best Straw Hat to fit means he SHOULD be added when he still ranks higher than every Straw Hat but the insanely popular Luffy and Zoro consistently.
<DIE THE DEATH> <SENTENCE TO DEATH> <GREAT EQUALIZER IS THE DEATH>
Angry babby
Mike was removed from BaseBreakingCharacter.Total Drama on the basis of being a scrappy. The two competing entries for context:
For BBC:
- Mike, had this status during Revenge of the Island. His fans tend to find his alternate personalities to be interesting characters, his relationship with Zoey to be sweet, and rooted for him during his triumph over his alters in Revenge of the Island. Those who despise him say he has no actual personality despite his Spotlight-Stealing Squad status except for having a mental disorder portrayed in a lighthearted manner, which they view as offensive. Come All-Stars he lost more and more fans to the point where he seems to have shifted firmly to The Scrappy, with only younger fans ignorant to disability stigma still defending him. The reviled "reset button" in the All-Stars finale was the icing on the cake. These days it's very hard to find Mike fans and the odd one who shows up tend to get lambasted by others.
For The Scrappy:
- Mike, while Base-Breaking during Revenge of the Island Mike rapidly went into this trope during All-Stars where he became a Spotlight-Stealing Squad. His central personality is considered to be a bland character except for having a mental disorder portrayed in a lighthearted manner, which they view as offensive. With the final nail in the coffin coming in the Season Finale where Mike manages to CURE himself of his disorder with a literal press of a button and becomes the winner of the season despite being MIA for most of it.
Thing is, Mike has a very dedicated fanbase who find him Adorkable and he even has some fans with DID who find potential in his arc. His hatedom is also very intense (though it's died down over the years) but Mike has always been polarizing, not unanimously hated, to the point of death and rape threats being made over people disliking him. So I say cut him from The Scrappy and add him back to BBC. Do I have consensus to do so?
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 4th 2021 at 4:12:14 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Bringing up the following examples from Wolverine and the X-Men (2009):
- Base-Breaking Character:
- Wolverine, as usual. The focus on him and the Character Shilling is taken to almost parody levels. Is it right to focus on the character who's already the most popular X-Man, or is it ruining him and the series? Also, the Character Shilling sometimes not being backed up by his actions can also either mean that he sucks, or that he's still the imperfect Wolverine of the comics.
- Cyclops also has some of this going for him. Some fans absolutely loved how this version was the complete opposite of the Standardized Leader that Cyclops usually is, some even go so far as to say that this Cyclops being so genuinely flawed made him more interesting than Wolverine for once, if only because he actually had flaws to struggle with. Other fans however absolutely hate this version of Cyclops for being the complete opposite everything the character has ever represented and for being degraded to nothing more than a pathetic loser who's been a useless twit all his life and having no real character development towards becoming a better person.
Edited by Anddrix on Jul 6th 2021 at 3:12:51 PM
Bringing up the following example from Jem and the Holograms (2015):
- Base-Breaking Character: Kimber is divisive. Some found Stefanie Scott's Genki Girl tendencies annoying but others liked her and felt she deserved more screen time.
Logic Girl
On YMMV.Calvin And Hobbes, both of the title characters are listed as BBC's. I don't think this is correct, since I don't think protagonists qualify.
For every low there is a high.
Angry babby
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Never heard that protagonists can't qualify. Protagonists can be quite controversial, and unlike protagonists being The Scrappy, it's not usually indicative that the work itself is widely detested. Plus you can like the work for its side characters.
That said, I don't think Calvin or Hobbes are that controversial, as most people seem to feel quite nostalgic and positive towards the characters.
Also, can I get the go-ahead to swap Mike's entries in the Total Drama page like I said before?
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 21st 2021 at 6:27:18 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Coffeenix! (She/Her)
Yes to Mike's entries being switched to BBC, I was going to do it ages ago, but procrastination kicked in.
Sandbox help wanted.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
The only thing that bars protagonists is Ensemble Dark Horse, technically.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
From BaseBreakingCharacter.Miraculous Ladybug:
- Both Marinette/Ladybug and Adrien/Cat Noir, whose status as this seems to be tied to their relationship with each other. It tends to go either one of two ways: fans of Marinette/Ladybug see her as a long-suffering woobie who deserves everything good in the world and can do no wrong and bash Adrien/Cat Noir for being spineless in the face of obviously horrible people and a complete stalker who refuses to leave Ladybug alone, while fans of Adrien/Cat Noir see him as a poor abused cinnamon roll and fluffy dork and bash Marinette/Ladybug for being a flat Mary Sue-type who's too mean to him and...for being a complete stalker who refuses to leave Adrien alone. A third camp just loves the dynamic the two of them have as it is and wants them to hook up, a fourth camp decries both characters for their terrible behavior, and there's plenty of opinions covered in-between.
While it's absolutely true these two are huge BBCS and that a lot of the defenders of one of these characters tends to be a detractor of the other, it makes the whole entry come off more like a Broken Base entry than anything? I also kind of question mentioning the other camps. Obviously, there are going to be fringe opinions in between, but isn't the focus of these tropes generally on the big, vicious arguments between two camps?
There's a part of me wondering if this should be moved to Broken Base and that new, separate entries for each character should be written for them, but at the same time, I won't deny that the reasons people like/dislike one more than the other often parallel each other. What should be done?
"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I found this on YMMV.Suicide Squad 2016:
- Margot Robbie's portrayal of Harley Quinn. While some praise her performance as a different but faithful take on the character who keeps the defining traits of her original counterpart, others felt that Robbie's performance lacked the childlike insanity of the original, coming off less like a mentally insane young woman and more like a drunk college student.
Okay, so confession time: I haven't actually seen Suicide Squad, so I'm not saying that this example is wrong. But I just feel a little doubtful of its validity, because from what I've absorbed through Pop-Cultural Osmosis, Harley Quinn seems to be the most beloved thing about the movie, so maybe someone who has seen it should comment on how accurate it is.
Saying "some people like a character and others dislike them" isn't really saying there's a huge split. And yea her character one of the few things most people liked about the movie.
Angry babby
I do know that those who like her, really like her... not sure about her haters, though. But her character's so bold from what I can tell that most people have some strong opinions on her.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
I feel Ace Attorney has enough Base Breaking characters to get its own page. If you look through the YMMV pages throughout the series it seems every main chaarcter except Miles Edgeworth, Pearl Fey Dick Gumshoe, and Simon Blackquill feel into at some point in the series. And that's not even counting the various culprits throughout the series
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Feel like it might be more than likely then that some of those are misuse. I mean, every character in every work of media has lovers and detractors. We only count the examples that have major camps on each side.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Yea, I think those entries should be double checked before considering making a page for them.
Alright, so a while back on the main RWBY thread, troper Wyldchyld proposed a Base-Breaking Character entry for Sun for the novel Before the Dawn since his portrayal in it has made him highly divisive:
- Base-Breaking Character: While some fans support Sun's portrayal as a deconstruction of his self-appointed determination to abandon his own team in favour of helping others, regardless of how well he knows them, other fans feel the novel has exaggerated the issue so excessively and negatively that the character is now unrecognisable from his original portrayal as a supportive free spirit.
We figured it'd be a good idea to bring it here and get some more feedback on the entry, see if it needs more adjustments. What does everyone else think?
Edited by ssjSega on Sep 6th 2021 at 7:12:02 AM
Simply saying some fans like a character and some don't isn't enough context for a Base-Breaking Character. Is it a long term highly contentious disagreement about the character between two equally large portions of the fandom? If it's not all of those things it's not Base-Breaking Character
That's my fault. There's a legitimate split that causes fights whenever it's discussed. The novel was released in July 2020, and it's still a dynamite discussion topic. We discussed writing an entry over on the RWBY forum, but I'm just not very good at writing these kinds of entries.
Let me try a rewrite.
- Base-Breaking Character: Sun's portrayal in RWBY: Before the Dawn split the fandom in half. Part of the fandom likes the exploration of problematic behaviour they felt had been glossed over in the show through deconstructing his habit of ditching his team to insert himself into the lives and business of strangers or friends without permission. However, the rest of the fandom was furious with his portrayal, feeling that the novel stripped Sun of his charm and character growth, to so excessively and negatively exaggerate his behaviour that he became unrecognisable. The gulf between the feeling that the novel gives him much needed character growth versus the feeling that it completely ruins him frequently turns discussions about the novel into fights.
Looking through the thread, one thing to keep in mind is that words like "part" or "some" tend to be a no for entries. Now, we know that the divide regarding Sun's character in the novel is genuine and it can get pretty nasty for both sides, so I think it needs just a bit of tweaking:
- Base-Breaking Character: Sun's portrayal in RWBY: Before the Dawn split the fandom in half. The first half of the fandom likes the exploration of problematic behavior they felt had been glossed over in the show through deconstructing his habit of ditching his team to insert himself into the lives and business of strangers or friends without permission. However, the other half of the fandom was furious with his portrayal, feeling that the novel stripped Sun of his charm and character growth, to so excessively and negatively exaggerate his behavior that he became unrecognizable. The gulf between the feeling that the novel gives him much needed character growth versus the feeling that it completely ruins him frequently turns discussions about the novel into fights.
Just minor word tweaking for the entry. Thoughts?
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Awhile ago I made added an entry to The Devil Wears Prada:
- Base-Breaking Character: Fans' opinions of Christian seem to be split down the middle, with most either loving or hating him. Some love him due to Simon Baker's natural charm, his actually supporting Andy's efforts at Runway, and finding him more likable than Andy's actual love interest Nate. However, some fans dislike him just as much as Nate due to his pursuit of Andy despite knowing she has a boyfriend, feeling he comes off as creepy rather than charming, and him trying to cost Miranda her job.
Looking around again I am not sure it's that big of a split. He is liked by a few, but most of the time I only find hate for him. However, the hate is also a mix of Die for Our Ship. Does this entry seem legit?
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
If it doesn't seem clear that there's a huge divide with the character then it shouldn't be added.