Duplicate tropes discussion thread

I mean, I wouldn't necessarily trust my read of things. Worth noting that the distinction between the tropes was in question even in/just out of YKTTW.

oooh good find!

Rich Kid Turned Social Activist and Uncle Pennybags? The latter is older but when I looked at the draft for the former, Uncle Pennybags never came up

Former could be a more specific, youth-oriented subtrope of the latter. Uncle Pennybags is usually someone older.

eh that seems like The Same, but More Specific if the age itself doesn't play a major factor in the trope. Like if Uncle Pennybags were more jaded because of their age / the young rich activist more optimistic, maybe, but that's not how these are described. Uncle Pennybags is characterized as being specifically jovial

Edited by amathieu13 on Sep 17th 2022 at 9:36:48 AM

I don’t think Uncle Pennybags has to be an activist, just generous.

That's my understanding, as well. (Which does raise the second question of the difference between Uncle Pennybags and Spoiled Sweet, but.)

...huh. Also, I thought Uncle Pennybags was the character from Little Orphan Annie, but no, that's Daddy Warbucks. Who's simply listed as a zero-context example without even a comment about the implications of his name. :P

I can see the activist v. generous difference, but ^Uncle Pennybags v. Spoiled Sweet is also a good question.

I think Uncle Pennybags is wealthy by himself while Spoiled Sweet was raised in privilege?

What is the difference supposed to be between It Will Never Catch On and And You Thought It Would Fail? The latter suggests the former is still valid if the work fails, but the former itself suggests nothing of the sort.

I've already brought up that ItWillNeverCatchOn.Real Life can be merged with And You Thought It Would Fail (It even notes so) and It Will Never Catch On be made In-Universe Examples Only as originally intended, but that's for TRS.

And You Thought It Would Fail is YMMV, while It Will Never Catch On is a trope. A case could be made that the former applies specifically to works, allowing the latter to have non-work real life examples, but I don't know how much of a difference that is or how desirable that would be.

It Will Never Catch On is made after the catching on has already occurred in real life, and it's played for irony/laughs. Real life examples are impossible.

I see. By that description, most real life examples of It Will Never Catch On are misuse because they didn't have the element of hindsight at the time that makes the predictions laughable.

my understanding re: Spoiled Sweet / Uncle Pennybags / Rich Kid Turned Social Activist would be

• Spoiled Sweet: a spoiled kid (usually rich, but not always) is a good person, even if they don't materially do anything to help others
• Uncle Pennybags: a rich person (can be young or old) uses their wealth to give their friends a good time
• Rich Kid Turned Social Activist: a rich young person uses their wealth to campaign for activist causes

there can be overlap between the three, but they feel like distinct concepts to me

Edited by NoUsername on Sep 20th 2022 at 8:36:57 AM

Also, Spoiled Sweet is limited to female characters. I don't feel like searching for the clean up thread but I know a few mods in the past have confirmed that the trope should confined to females examples. Also Spoiled Sweet characters need have naievete (because of their privileged background) and and overtly sweet nature in spite of their upbringing. It's a trope that's more specific than what most people think it is because the trope is more nuanced than "nice rich kid" (from my understanding anyway)

Edited by MacronNotes on Sep 20th 2022 at 12:53:18 PM

Sequel in Another Medium and Expanded Universe seem to have a lot of overlap. The description notes that the difference is an Expanded Universe is "when the other media-sequels are treated as a lesser canon", which technically still applies to Sequel in Another Medium (since there have been cases of official media overwriting EU continuations).

in my mind expanded universe implies there's a lot of works in other mediums that might not be linear sequels but are still set in the same universe (like DC or star wars), while sequel in another medium implies a linear sequel to another work rather than building a universe

I've never treated Expanded Universe for sequels and in my mind the main story can never be in Expanded Universe. To me Expanded Universe are more than one spin-off in the same setting with own Worldbuilding.

Author Appeal vs. Author Tract vs. Writer on Board vs. Author Filibuster? The difference between these has never been clear to me.

The way I see it.

• Author Appeal: The author's multiple work have a prominent element that it can be reasonably guessed they're a fan of it.
• Author Tract: The story's core characters or setting obviously share the author's political view.
• Writer on Board: Characters behave in unnatural way at some moment just to prove author's point.
• Author Filibuster: A character delivers a lengthy monologue with is clearly the author speaking.

Would somebody mind explaining the difference between Relationship Upgrade and They Do to me?

- Relationship Upgrade still allows for Triang Relations to interfere or they can break up, while They Do is full monogamous, locked in, partners for life? That's why there's a marriage picture?

Mainly working from what Relationship Upgrade says, but that's a very wobbly foundation, so I'm not sure I'm right.

EDIT: Like, you can have Platonic get a Relationship Upgrade into No Going Steady, which is a different state from They Do?

Edited by Malady on Sep 22nd 2022 at 8:18:39 AM

They Do looks like a getting-married/more permanently together subtrope of Relationship Upgrade.

Everybody's Dead, Dave VS. Sole Survivor?