Now with a sandbox!
It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
This was added to NightmareFuel.My Hero Academia:
- In chapter 223, the Meta Liberation Army sends a message to the League of Villains by cutting off all of the fingers on one of Giran's hands and leaving them at spots associated with the League's activities. And a composite panel shows how, when shown together, the fingers were left in such a way as to represent the Liberation Army's hand signal.
It was then expanded to this:
- In chapter 223, the Meta Liberation Army sends a message to the League of Villains by cutting off all of the fingers on one of Giran's hands and leaving them at spots associated with the League's activities. And a composite panel shows how, when shown together, the fingers were left in such a way as to represent the Liberation Army's hand signal. Even though Giran's deleted his client list, the MLA possesses an IT firm that can easily recover the data, which means he one hand's worth of fingers for nothing.
- Or for that matter, how the MLA can trace the League's phone call and track down their location using satellites, ready to tip off the heroes at a moment's notice. Bear in mind, this can happen to anyone.
- Special mention has to go to how they have over 100,000 copies of their manifesto reprinted or how they have over 116,000 loyal followers ready at their beck and call.
Not only is the indentation really bad, but all of these extra details that were added seem unnecessary and not nightmarishly scary. Given how evil the League of Villains is, them getting blackmailed won't make anyone lose sleep over them. And the "116,000 loyal followers" bit seems to be a hyperbolic claim (I've seen the interpretation that the character making that claim is counting every single person who's read his book as a follower, and inflating the number to intimidate his enemies). Selling a lot of books is not Nightmare Fuel in any way.
Also, this was added to NightmareFuel.Mortal Kombat 11:
- Cetrion's first fatality. Not because of the fatality itself, but for the fact she grows to the size of the the Earth to finish her opponent.
As I've said plenty of times, Mortal Kombat is so infamous for its extreme violence that the standards for Nightmare Fuel are very high. This finishing move runs more on Rule of Cool than Rule of Scary — anyone who can handle the level of gore in this game would be unlikely to be terrified by this.
Showtime!
I don’t have much context since I’m waaaay behind, but it sounds like all the bnha example can be cut except for the first part, and the mk example can just be cut
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Showtime!
Two things about the NF pages for The Stormlight Archive
One, they have a lot of speculation and zero-context examples on them
Two, I don't think we need a page for the series and then a separate NF page for each book, given that a lot of other literary series have a single NF page, even if they have separate work pages for different books (A Song of Ice and Fire, for example) I have no idea how to cut/merge those pages without burning the wiki down, but I feel like that would be a good idea
Edited by Libraryseraph on Apr 7th 2019 at 11:57:52 AM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Lizzid people!
Any more opinions on the Sandra and Woo NF page?
Showtime!
*checks* Yeah, these are all Black Comedy, as far as I can tell
Edited by Libraryseraph on Apr 7th 2019 at 11:57:30 AM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
I noticed Holes. It's pretty bad. The work isn't particularly nightmare inducing, most of the entries are either handwringing, Fridge Horror or not scary. I say cut.
I wonder, maybe we should have a poll like a few other threads have. If someone thinks a page can't be salvaged and should be cut, they suggest it be added to the poll. If that page gets at least ten votes, it gets cut.
From The Loud House
- The ending of Brawl In The Family. Lincoln ends up Saying Too Much and manages to piss off all ten of his sisters at the same time. The Big Ball of Violence that results from this ends up shaking the whole house and Lincoln and his dad who are completely freaked out have to take cover in the parents bedroom!
The Big Ball of Violence is a comedic trope, so the scene seems more played for laughs than anything else.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Nothing nightmare about it.
Ugh the big ball of violence isn't always a comedic trope. Just because something is generally considered a comedic trope doesn't mean it is. This was a serious subversion especially considering that Lincoln and his Dad were obviously frightened!
Good chance it was still played for laughs for the audience. The Loud Siblings alway get into a ball of violence.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
You say that "Lincoln and his dad were obviously frightened", but Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction. It has to be scary for the audience, not the characters. And not just kinda scary, but the kind of fear that stays with you even after the episode is over.
We don't want Nightmare Fuel to turn into a list of every time something bad happens to someone, especially not when the violence is completely Played for Laughs and won't frighten anyone except maybe for very young children who probably aren't the show's target audience.
So you're saying that Nickelodeon which The Loud House is shown on isn't done for kids? I'm going for in-universe. This is also YMMV so what may not frighten you can freak someone else out. It sounds to me that you don't even WATCH the channel while Whirl RX does. I'm taking that opinion to start.
Nightmare Fuel is Audience Reaction only. Anything that happens in-universe fits under other tropes.
Just a little heads up; "Brawl in the Family" is one of those episodes the fans hate and have written plenty of Fix Fics and Dark Fics of, so examples from that episode should be taken with extra caution and grains of salt.
Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Apr 9th 2019 at 9:53:03 AM
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Thats true. Also, the show does Portrayal physical violence for laugh. Even threats. Especially for Lincoln.
I remember that. My example was deleted even though I've watched it and i've gone through it. When a regular sister fight has even one of the sister's boyfriends too scared to open the door (and is fully aware of the categories of the threat level chart despite being seen as dumb) then what happens when the fight is 10 way? Honestly I think it shouldn't be deleted for the fact that someone who thinks the Periphery Demographic (the channel is aimed at kids and pre-teens while the show has gained a following amongst young adults) is the target audience. Whirl RX what are your thoughts? You sound like you actually watch the show.
Edited by NKgamer on Apr 9th 2019 at 6:53:12 AM
Showtime!
Zuktron never said children were a periphery demographic. They said the show was not aimed at very young children, and that the big ball of violence wouldn’t scare the actual target audience, which is different.
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
I did put down the target audience myself so I concede that point.
Showtime!
Another page that needs review:
Touhou is full of non-canon, Fan Work examples, which could maybe be moved to their own folder in Fanfiction. Even the canon folder s full of Fridge Horror and speculation. The very first example even points out that everything in the games is portrayed in a relatively lighthearted tone, before it goes on to say it could be portrayed seriously.
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
You don't need to ask before removing Fridge Horror and blatant speculation from these pages. Are there any specific examples that aren't breaking any of the clear, objective rules but might not be scary enough to qualify?
Lizzid people!
Saturday Night Live probably also needs some looking into.
Showtime!
Specific things I have issues with
- While ZUN tries to keep a predominately lighthearted nature to the in-game tone of the story, a good deal of the incidents that the protagonists intervene with do present very real threats that, if left alone, would have had cataclysmic to apocalyptic ramifications. For example, if Yuyuko had not been stopped, the Saigyou Ayakashi would have kept on consuming the "spring" out of the land until nothing remained. If Utsuho Reiuji had not been fought back to calm in her god-induced bout of madness, she may well have reduced everything on the surface to molten, irradiated slag. And of course, had the protagonist not acted upon the Lunarian Invasion, the migrating superpowered immortal speciests would have seen the Earth "purified"... meaning all preexisting life would have to go. Fridge horror
- Pretty much everything about Highly Responsive to Prayers was highly unsettling. Especially Sariel and Konngara. Looking carefully at Konngara, what appears to be blood is dripping from the base of her "horn". It's likely a spike driven through her head. While Sariel looks like a beautiful angel, she's actually an angel of death. The background goes through changes throughout the battle of her first form, and in one of them you can see a bunch of hands rising out of the ground. You can't even clearly make out her second form. You can see the outline of her body, but the rest is a giant void. To further drive the point home, there is no dialogue, and there just is something about the dark atmosphere in the entire game. Exaggeration, shoehorning
- Opening up Story of Eastern Wonderland's "OP.EXE" file in an emulator and turning on the MIDI option in the title screen with a MIDI output set up will greet you with a disturbing cacophony straight from Hell. I don't think this counts?
- The very being of the Saigyou Ayakashi. Zero Context Example, could be kept with fleshing out
- All of the Yuuka stuff feels like a bit of a stretch. The Rumia stuff is definitely a stretch, given that it's canon that she's a huge moron who can't catch anyone
- The stuff related to ULiL and LoLK can probably be kept, but the indentation is bad
- Medicine Melancholy. Sure, she's just a sentient doll, but her genocidal ramblings, her thoughts of pure hatred against humans, and how she has no qualms with testing the effects of her dangerous poison on them or killing whoever steps into her territory drive her straight into this category. I could go either way on removing or keeping this
I removed some examples I was confident discarding on my own, as well
Edited by Libraryseraph on Apr 10th 2019 at 2:21:26 PM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Saigyou Ayakashi is indeed a complete ZCE and not acceptable in its current state. Either expand on it, comment it out, or delete it.
The Urban Legend in Limbo example reads as if most of it was written in speculation based on pre-release promotional content.
Looked over the folders for the last few seasons, and yeah, it needs work. A lot of the stuff there is Black Comedy, or less scary and more kinda creepy. I mean, seriously, Grim Reaper Steve Bannon is less scary than real-life Steve Bannon.
Edited by SapphireBlue on Apr 10th 2019 at 4:53:45 AM
Age Of Empires II is safe to cut. All three entries are non-examples.
- The defeat music, with chants straight out of a requiem, is saddening and downright disturbing.Saddening and disturbing are not nightmare inducing
- The Hun theme "music", if you can call it that. Zero Context Example
- Speaking of the Huns, their campaign in The Conquerors is presented as a tale told by an old Christian priest, who is discussing an unusual item in his room - a skull on a pike. He tells the nameless narrator the story of Attila the Hun, and how he fought with the Romans against the invading horde, only to be captured and forced to join Attila's retinue of foreign advisors. The epilogue after the final mission is positively chilling.
Father Armand was silent, for a long time. He glanced over at the head on a stake. "A Hunnic trophy," he said. "I think the man was a Visigoth. He died at the Battle of Catalaunian Fields. I keep it here so that I may see it every day and remember."
"Remember what, Father?" I asked him.
"The scent of a burning village. The sound of butchery. The way peasants would flee before the Hun riders. The way we would ride them down! The way it felt to conquer alongside Attila and the Huns!"
He leaned so close I could feel his breath.note
"Sometimes... I miss it."Not scary. Maybe mildly shocking when it's revealed the elderly priest rode with the Huns, but not Nightmare Fuel
the Worm page is almost entirely taken up by elaborate descriptions of ex Slaughterhouse Nine members, who barely appear in the story. These people are horrifying superpowered serial killers... who are all posthumous characters and only appear as clones. I think we can stand to cut most of them. The page also has problems with zero-context examples. Thoughts?
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?