The ComicBook/ Namespace, and the lack of requirements to qualify

Ok, most of the unlocked pages are fixed, but can I edit the monster sandboxes? I thought it might count as an unapproved edit.

SKREEEEEEEONK!

Leave an edit reason explaining the change. Probably a good idea to include a link to here so that the other editors can see where the discussion took place.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Or just tell the people on the CM thread directly so there's no confusion at all.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Didn’t tell the CM thread (Didn’t see Warjay’s post in time), but the only wicks left are from the locked pages.

Edit: I did.

Edited by GeneralGigan on Apr 2nd 2021 at 2:22:49 PM

SKREEEEEEEONK!

Sorry for the double post, but here’s some concept criteria for comic book pages, whether or not all criteria needs to be met can be decided later.

• They were the main protagonist of at least one series.
• Page contains at least some work tropes, softsplit if not outright split preferable.
• A defined supporting cast independent of other characters.
• (Good guys only) A Rogues Gallery with at least (insert thread decided number here) villains not shared with other heroes.
• (DC heroes only) A setting unique to themselves, and not inhabited by other heroes.

Not quite, these criteria are based more on the idea that these pages represent both the character and the work rather than just one or the other.

Edited by GeneralGigan on Apr 4th 2021 at 11:07:27 AM

SKREEEEEEEONK!

Are you arguing that "character is a work" is acceptable and proposing restrictions based on what characters count as a work?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Anyway, I created Crisis on Infinite Pages as a sandbox where DC characters are listed and given an example as to where’d they go once we move them to Characters/ namespace pages.

SKREEEEEEEONK!

Nice work! I have some objections here, based on "characters who have been the stars of their own series":

• ComicBook.Anarky — there was at least one work titled Anarky, and story arcs are included in that, so we should have this page to discuss the plot-tropes that happen in those works. I'd suggest the character-specific stuff be moved to ComicBook.LonnieMachin, the character's civilian identity. The Characters/ subpage of Anarky would index and/or list characters appearing in the work.
• ComicBook.Azrael — this is another title that has been used to sell comicbooks before. The characters could be split into Characters.JeanPaulValley and Characters.MichaelLane.
• ComicBook.Batgirl — we need this page based on Batgirl (2000), Batgirl (2009), Batgirl (2011), etc. Works that share the same title in the comicbook medium. I think Characters.Batgirl should index Characters.BarbaraGordon, Characters.CassandraCain, and Characters.StephanieBrown.
• ComicBook.Batwing — has two(?) different works in the New 52 continuity with both David Zavimbe and Luke Fox using the title.
• ComicBook.BlackAdam — is sorta about two different characters; Theo Adam and Teth-Adam. I don't think this needs a work page, but I think we need to split the two characters, even if they operate under the same super-(hero/villain) name.
• ComicBook.BlackCanary — there was at least one work titled Black Canary, such as in 1991 and 2007.
• ComicBook.Catwoman — also represents multiple comicbooks with the Catwoman title, so we'd need to use this article to describe the works. At least she isn't a Legacy Character.

That's A, B, and C reviewed. I don't have any major disagreement with your proposal to move the other titles in those sections. This project is much more complicated than just "move articles to the character namespace", and my lack of familiarity with the source material is one of the reasons why I haven't been confident in saying what pages are correct to move. I am still inclined towards allowing character-specific subpages in the Characters/ namespace to the comics franchise, and while I have seen some opposition to that in this thread, it hasn't been very strong.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Why are you suggesting creating new "fake" Comic Book pages? We should be getting rid of the ones that already exist!

While yes all of that is true, only Batgirl and Batwing have story tropes to their names, all the others are mostly, if not exclusively character pages listing character tropes, and thus should be moved to the Characters/ namespace, if we let everyone who had their own series stay in the ComicBook/ namespace, we’d probably accomplish nothing in terms of fixing the issues with the namespace as a whole.

In related news, Batgirl and Batwing will be taken off of Crisis on Infinite Pages!

SKREEEEEEEONK!

My apologies, I don't mean to imply that the pages should stay as they are, just that we should have articles at these names. A cursory examination of the Catwoman page supports what you say about character tropes, and this was the primary concern with the Gray Ghost article.

What about turning the pages that should be work articles into disambiguations? We could have it direct readers to the character page and Red Links to works that use it as a title.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Sorry for that.

Good idea, we might just do that when we actually get these pages moved.

SKREEEEEEEONK!

And finally after all this time, my work on Crisis on Infinite Pages is complete! We’ve still got al lot to do as far as the namespace in general is concerned and we’re gonna need a lot of redirects, but this is still the first big step towards cleaning up the ComicBook/ namespace.

SKREEEEEEEONK!

A lot of those comicbook pages still have a lot of subpages that haven't been moved, like trivia, YMMV, video examples self-demonstrating articles. Can proper character pages even have those?

Also, should we turn the original comicbook namespaces for into some kind of disambiguation page for all versions of that character, or just turn it into redirects?

We’ll probably Cut List all those subpages.

Edited by GeneralGigan on Apr 22nd 2021 at 8:08:25 AM

SKREEEEEEEONK!

If we're just throwing all the content away, this whole move seems like a downgrade to me.

We’d probably move all them to the Franchise subpages.

Edited by GeneralGigan on Apr 22nd 2021 at 4:50:42 AM

SKREEEEEEEONK!

Before we start making large amounts of edits, we should probably define exactly what those changes are.

From what I can figure out, there are a few questions to answer.

• At present, there are a large number of ComicBook/ pages doubling as character pages for comic book characters (occasionally sharing the page with versions of themselves from non-comics media.)
  • Some of these ComicBook/ pages are for characters without a solo series, and thus do not represent any work. What do we do with these?
  • Some of these pages are for characters with a solo series, but they basically only function as character pages. I'm assuming all the actually valid tropes here will just be transplanted somewhere.
  • Lastly, some of these pages are for characters with a solo series and enough tropes to keep the page intact, only moving the character tropes to a Characters/ page. These are the easy ones.
• There is a problem with tropers Pothole-ing every mention of a comic book character to their series' page (e.g. every mention of Spider-Man to ComicBook.Spider Man or every mention of the Tim Drake Robin to ComicBook.Robin Series.)

• Some storylines span multiple titles (whether it be a Crisis Crossover, a Bat Family Crossover, an ordinary Crossover, or just a character happening to have multiple solo titles at the same time.) Where do we put tropes relevant to a character, but that happened outside a character's own book?

• What exactly goes on the newly created Characters/ pages?

Addressing your questions,

Is this the place to clean up those wicks, and if so, what do we do with them?

• I.... don’t know, potholing to work pages is something that happens to plenty of characters, even outside comics (Bayonetta is a frequent example).

The entire point of the project is to "reclaim" the ComicBook/ namespace to actually be about the works, but how strictly are we going to define this? For now, we're not particular about distinguishing between, for example, Superman's actions in Superman, Action Comics, and various team books and cameo appearances, as they are all in the same universe as smaller parts of one giant work.

• Crisis on Infinite Pages plays with this very loosely, pages with both Character and Work tropes were sometimes spared, and pages that are not a part of any specific franchise were kept in the ComicBook namespace.

(General Gigan, you created Characters.Batman The Joker a few days ago with all of the introductory fluff and none of the actual character tropes - or any tropes at all! In my opinion, that's the exact opposite of what we should be doing. Sorry to call you out like this, but that edit is one of the reasons that I feel we have to work out a plan before we start changing stuff, lest this turn into a Right Hand VS Left Hand situation.)

• Uhhh... you notice the folders, right?

SKREEEEEEEONK!

Never mind that last one, it was (and is) broken on mobile.

I think that Characters.Spider Man The Character should be split between Characters.Spider Man Peter Benjamin Parker and Characters.Spider Man Miles Gonzalo Morales, on the basis that Spidey is a legacy character.

As for ComicBook.Mary Jane Watson, I suggest moving her character tropes to Characters.Spider Man Mary Jane Watson, and repeat the process for other characters with their own superfluous Comic Book namespace pages.

I will need help to accomplish this.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 25th 2021 at 8:38:14 AM

Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.

The middle name for the latter is necessary as to not conflict with the video game Spider-Man: Miles Morales, but nothing's been called Spider-Man: Peter Parker, so why use the middle name for the former?

I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.

Movement ideas are currently being housed in Gigan Kills the Marvel Universe.

And for the uninitiated, i proposed that Miles should be moved to Characters.Marvel Comics Miles Morales, while Peter stays at Characters.Spider Man The Character.

Edited by GeneralGigan on Apr 25th 2021 at 9:42:17 AM

SKREEEEEEEONK!

Miles is already at Characters.Marvel Comics Miles Morales, turns out.

I think that having Pete at Characters.Spider Man The Character is disengenuous, because it assumes that Miles is not his own Spidey.

I'd much rather have Pete at his own character page.

Since everyone else is on a Marvel Comics character sheet, maybe make it "Characters.Marvel Comics Peter Parker".

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 25th 2021 at 10:11:08 AM

Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.

x2 Might also want to add Avengers 1000000 BC