Broken Base Cleanup

I'd say yes if it applies to the artistic works of the parks, such as remodeling the rides. The Disney Parks fanbase can get heated over that.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 16th 2020 at 6:24:45 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

I found this in YMMV.The Owl House.

Broken Base: Luz's design is considered by many to be very plain even boring. To some fans this is a shortcoming of the show and they think Luz doesn't really stick out well against more interesting looking characters in her show or compared to other shows. On the other hand, other fans will site this as a plus because weird personality aside it emphasizes that Luz is a normal person and that anyone with hard work can achieve their dreams.

Would a person attire be seen as people having hearing arguments over?

I'm not familiar with this fandom so IDK if this is a really broken base, but I will say anything has the potential to be a heated fandom debate, and even things that seem small can cause massive rifts in a fandom.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Agreed that even stupid things can be seen as divisive.

Regarding this particular example, I've never watched Ow House but I know a few people who do, and I've never heard so much as a rumbling about her design. If anything seems to be an issue it's whether Luz being an Idiot Hero is amusing or insufferable to the point of unsympathetic.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jul 19th 2020 at 3:19:40 PM

How does BrokenBase.South Park look to y'all? A lot of them seem to have sufficient context and are or have been heated debates in the fandom, but some aren't really accurate. The bit about Nathan being a part of Team Craig is inaccurate (it's probably referring to Jason; Nathan is an antagonist who was never seen in that group), and even the entry says the arguments are "minor and probably nowadays non-existent." Also the entry about Season 23 is very biased in favor of the critical side.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Is everything on BrokenBase.Death Battle valid? I know this fandom can be extremely acrimonious, but this seems to list most of the matches

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?

The show has declined in quality somewhat, so I'm not surprised the edits are leaning more towards criticism these days.

Optimism is a duty.

I'm inclined to agree but if the fandom is unanimously leaning towards criticism then it's not broken base, and if the fandom is genuinely broken then the entries need to be rewritten. I don't know if a lot of these debates about quality really get heated enough to count; most people I see who love the new seasons are more casual fans. I could be wrong though.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

The only specific episodes I think are controversial enough to qualify are Ben 10 vs. Green Lantern (DEFINITELY this one, the saltiness is legendary), Goku vs. Superman (obviously, given how it's probably the most popular character fight match-up of all time and still hotly debated to this day), and maybe Toph vs. Gaara.

I thought of listing Yang vs. Tifa too, but then I realized that pretty much everyone agrees its results are incorrect and nonsensical, so it's not really divisive.

As for the general examples, the only one that looks possibly valid is having Wiz and Boomstick animated. Though I'm not sure if it's actually vitriolic enough, or just plain old fans disagreeing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I'm very skeptical of any supposed Broken Base that centers on one entry in a long-running series.

"Star Trek fans are either Kirk guys or Picard guys." That's a Broken Base. (It's not true any more, but it was for a long time.)

Now apply that to Death Battle.

"Death Battle fans are either Goku guys or Superman guys." That's probably the most plausible one, and it gets shakier with the others.

"Death Battle fans are either Toph guys or Gaara guys." Nonsense. Most Death Battle fans watched the episode, agreed or disagreed or whatever, maybe made a forum post or You Tube comment about it, and then moved on to the next episode of Death Battle.

Haven't followed the BrokenBase.Death Battle page in a while, but I'm all for removing entries. I've contributed to some entries in the past and if they're still there and don't match or are misuse, I'd like to help clean up my mistakes.

Now, I've suggested this in the past regarding the page, but is it or is it not a good idea to have the page locked like the YMMV page and only allow pre-approved entries using both this thread and the unlock-page thread? I don't know if it's a good idea and I've never gotten enough of a response to make heads or tails on if it's doable.

Personally I'd think if a YMMV page is perma-locked, any YMMV subpages would be perma-locked as well. Otherwise people might use the subpages to circumvent the lock and just totally miss the point.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Hence why I said "maybe" about Toph vs. Gaara. But Ben 10 vs. Green Lantern is ABSOLUTELY an example, I often see VERY heated disagreements with Ben 10 fans complaining about the outcome, Green Lantern fans calling them whiners, Ben 10 fans presenting evidence that the episode missed, Green Lantern fans giving reasons why that evidence wouldn't change the result, and so on...

For further evidence, the episode also has a very divisive like:dislike ratio (currently 90k:76k, which I believe is far more even than any other episode).

Edited by Zuxtron on Jul 22nd 2020 at 1:21:30 PM

Bringing up these examples from The Flash:

• Broken Base:
  • Mostly between Barry and Wally fans; Jay fans are mostly spared this, as there's a general consensus as to where and what he should be.
  • Pro-Legacy Character fans vs those who see it as a Uniqueness Decay. For some fans, having more than one speedster, and especially more than one Flash, makes the brand on the character weaker and the titular character less special, and would prefer there just be only a single Flash. For others, the legacy is half the appeal of the franchise, and the Flash Family's teamwork works well as they have distinct personalities and skills. This is largely a sub-issue of the larger Wally-vs-Barry divide, as Barry fans seem to prefer the 'simpler' single Flash story, while Wally fans prefer the teamwork-focused Flash Family story.
  • Barry's return, and every subsequent story between that and DC Rebirth. A good portion of fans enjoyed these stories for how they reinvented the franchise and modernised Barry's character, along with Francis Manapul's Awesome Art. However, many dislike how Barry's run caused Wally and the greater Flash family to be Demoted to Extra and subsequently erased all together, along with the aforementioned reinvention of the franchise being seen as far less interesting, and consider this chapter a major Dork Age.
  • Before that, there's Johns' turning a lot of reformed Rogues evil again. Many feel that some were more interesting as a bunch of reformed, semi-heroic anti-heroes. Others prefer them in their villainous roles and feel they're cooler as a bunch of Anti-Villain types. A third group don't mind them going back to their villainous routes, but dislike that Johns had them lose their friendship with Wally and gave a needless Cerebrus Retcon that turned them into victims of a botched Mind Rape attempt orchestrated by Barry Allen before his death.
  • In a similar manner, Gorilla Grodd's transformation from a megalomaniac with Mind over Matter powers who happened to be a giant talking gorilla, into a savage giant gorilla with a bestial viciousness who happens to also have mind powers. Partially under Johns' pen (though he's not the only writer responsible), Grodd had his savagery dialled up until he became a vicious monster who can and will demolish opponents physically, and solves problems with brute force. For some fans, this is a Rescued from the Scrappy Heap transformation that made a goofy character genuinely menacing. For others, however, Grodd lost his fun factor when he stopped trying to turn everyone into apes, and feels like he Took a Level in Dumbass as he seemingly forgets about his mind powers outside of using them for Mind Rape, and no longer engages in any kind of long-term planning, all just to make him Darker and Edgier.
  • New 52 Wally; Race Lift aside, many were annoyed at his In Name Only backstory and characterisation that many saw as stereotypical. Others were open to the reinvention or didn't see his behaviour as necessarily being as problematic as it was accused. This became a moot point however when Rebirth reworked him into being classic Wally's cousin rather than his "replacement" and he was recharacterised as a "Well Done, Son" Guy.
  • Wally's kids, particularly the fact they joined in on the superheroing. For some they crossed the line into just having too many speedsters, while others liked that they brought a new chapter for Wally to tackle. Regardless, their erasure has prompted a significant backlash, indicating that many found them enjoyable enough to miss their loss. Even still, people were divided on if they wanted them restored alongside the rest of the Flash Family, or would prefer things be restored to an earlier point.
  • The Rebirth run by Joshua Williamson. Though there's smaller disagreements about how much the run retreads old ground or its treatment of the Rogues, a major cause of debate is Barry Allen's characterisation, best exemplified by the reactions to "Perfect Storm" and "Flash War". Both focused on exploring the flaws of Barry Allen, calling attention to how he's developed many toxic and selfish tendencies thanks to how much favouritism he's allotted by higher ups. Either it did a great job at this, and perfectly demonstrated Barry's problematic behaviour and gave him much needed Character Development, or it's another example of Barry's flaws going untreated, as he largely gets away with nearly dooming the others to being Grodd's slaves because his ego wouldn't let him step aside and doesn't suffer significantly for the personal damage he causes others. Then there's a third contingent who feel the stories presented Barry with artificial and inflated flaws just to make him look bad and create a Conflict Ball. Ultimately it's down to how well you think the story was handled and how you feel about Williamson's apparent dislike for modern!Barry.
  • Flashpoint. Quality of the story and the resulting after-effects aside, fans are split on how this reflects Barry Allen. For some fans, it was a forgivable mistake and would rather blame Executive Meddling for making it worse than it was intended to be by using it as a way to start the reboot; for others, it's an utterly selfish move on Barry's part and a sign of him being utterly reckless with his power, while also being easily avoided had he just consulted with Wally or Booster Gold (who are both much better at dealing with time travel).
    • In a similar regard, Heroes In Crisis; with some exception the fandom is pretty much in agreement on the story's quality, but the split is in how it should be seen in regards to Wally's character. For some fans, it should be completely ignored and see it as a blatant attempt by DC (or more specific, Dan DiDio) to ruin Wally's character by making him responsible for a horrible tragedy so that they can cement Barry as the true Flash. For others, they hate it, but believe that there should be work made to fix it and restore Wally's character rather than just sweep it under the rug and forget it happened. Then, for some fringe pro-Barry fans, there's a strange tendency to celebrate the story to troll Wally fans as it now gives them their own Flashpoint to hold over Wally's head.

Is there a reason why you want to bring these up? As someone who's only passingly familiar with The Flash comics, it's a bit daunting to read through all of that without knowing much about what any of these mean and no idea what I'm supposed to be looking for. But the first one is a clear-cut ZCE, and the one about New 52 Wally says it "became a moot point".

---

Also, is that consensus to enact the cuts to BrokenBase.Death Battle? I don't want to see that be another page that gets brought up then forgotten about despite clearly having big problems. We'd keep only Goku vs. Superman, Ben 10 vs. Green Lantern, and maybe Wiz and Boomstick being animated.

Edited by Zuxtron on Jul 27th 2020 at 2:56:22 PM

If the page is being cut down to just those three, wouldn't it make more sense to transfer them back to YMMV.Death Battle and cut the page?

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢

That's what I meant, I should have been more specific. Yeah, if it's only three examples, it's not worth keeping.

So, can we put the BrokenBase.Death Battle page on the cultist now? Or do we need to wait for the unlocking thread to transfer the three Broken Base entries discussed above?

Transfer first.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Alright, I asked to move the Death Battle examples in the locked pages edit request thread.

It's been moved, and BrokenBase.DeathBattle cut. Fun fact: it had 1400 inbounds.

Not exactly the right thread for this, but what exactly are inbounds?

Inbounds are basically "how many times has this page been linked to outside of TVTropes and search engines?".

Essentially, that page was linked to at least 1400 times.

From YMMV.Ren And Stimpy Adult Party Cartoon

• Broken Base:
  • Adult Party Cartoon itself was either vulgar fun that gave John K. a second chance or it was the worst thing ever done to the legacy of the Ren and Stimpy Show, with most fans settling into the latter camp.
  • "Ren Seeks Help": It's either the strongest episode in the Adult Party Cartoon series (as it's the only one with any true story structure and it's just not an excuse to throw a bunch of adult jokes in your face), or it's the most ghastly; the point of contention lies within its scenes of graphic animal cruelty. Some say it's just the episode that sucks the least.

The second one might be valid, but I doubt the first one. Adult Party Cartoon is considered So Bad, It's Horrible and I've never seen anybody defend it. The entry itself says most fans lean towards the latter belief.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

Keep the second one, but remove the first one since it fails the "two large factions" requirement.